Radiology woes post

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by pags, Nov 22, 2001.

  1. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Since radiology has quickly become ultra-competitive, I thought it would be nice to start a thread of woes, complaints, and grievances about OUR interview process. If anything, it might make those who are having trouble getting interviews, wallow in other's misfortunes and make us all feel a little bit better. A wise old man once said, misery likes company. On the other hand, maybe this thread will die off like most of the other uninteresting posts on SDN.
    So now, I will let all you radiology hopefulls express your unrully experiences about this year's competitive radiology environment. :D
     
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  3. bobcat

    bobcat Member

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    I am not applying for residency in radiology but I was wondering, with radiology being so competitive, what else you all are applying for as a backup?
     
  4. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Nothing. I'm going to do my internship and if I don't match, I'll reapply next year. I'm sure I'll be able to scramble into a FP program somewhere, if need be. Call me a fool...
     
  5. GreatPumpkin

    GreatPumpkin Mystical Treatbringer

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    Fool! Just kidding.

    Why scramble to FP? Consider a career in Pathology, it has much more in common with Radiology than FP. Great lifestyle, little direct patient care, attention to visual detail, great income (ok not as great as rad, but damn good compared to FP), etc...

    Good luck on your Rad match. I graduated last year and around 30 people in my class tried to match in Rad about 8 didn't get it. This year it sounds worse.
     
  6. Magree

    Magree Senior Member

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    Hi:

    It was recommended to me that if I needed a spot in the scramble that FP was a good "out" since it was basically a general medicine/transition type year. With it I think you can get into EM, Anest., maybe some psych programs PGY-2. I don't think you can use it towards internal medicine however. Good luck to all!


    M-
     
  7. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Thanks for the Pathology advice. However, the current market for pathologists is quite poor. It is a thought, though.
     
  8. Voxel

    Moderator Emeritus

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    Indeed, pathology is in some ways similiar to radiology. Thus in pathology, life style is better, patient contact is less, good salary but less than Rads, wider variety of "pathology" and tasks to be performed.

    Lifestyle in Radiology has changed drastically and this specialty is seeing a tremendous increase in volume (work to be done) and busy to nonstop night call (from home, but still) outside of academia (in private practice as a partner). If you do not want to be a partner, there is an opportunity to work less with a large compensatory drop in compensation. Also, if you are thinking about Interventional Rads (IR), it is very busy as well (day and night). So if you want lifestyle seriously think before going into Rads. Residency is no joke anymore. We will be up all night reading trama and ER requests (do not even get me started on appropriateness). I relish the opportunity because it is a critical learning experience, but those who want a "lifestyle" will be seriously disappointed.

    IR has lots of patient contact unlike diag rads and path.

    As for path, squinting into a microscope and working on the dead are two things I would have to get used to doing. Heh, if the slides were on a monitor in a dark room, then maybe. :D
    An aside...one of my best teachers in medical school outside the fields of radiology and internal medicine was in pathology. This guy was phenomenal in his knowledge, skill, and ability to teach. Many of pathology attendings I have met like to teach and do interesting research.

    Those not getting many interviews in radiology should consider backup plans. Last year, we had about 1 in 3 who did not match into radiology. Several people scrambled into path and rehab, one into medicine categorical, and a few backed up into peds. There are also several radiology programs that withdraw from the match early and sign candidates.

    "If you want it, you can have it, but you've got to learn to reach out there and grab it" - Photograph.Weezer.
     
  9. tweedy

    tweedy Junior Member

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    i was wondering if a 250+ score on step 1 guarantees interviews at most places. i have no research experience and was wondering if my step 1 would compensate.
     
  10. scully

    scully Senior Member

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    And to add to the above post, do you have to be AOA? Previous threads have said that you do, but at my school at least, AOA is so rare that it doesn't seem possible that everyone would have to get it! Does anyone know? Thanks!
     
  11. Voxel

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    No, you do not have to be AOA. Last year approximately 240 out of 875 spots went to AOA applicants. So if you want to go to the top 20 programs it is a very good thing to have along with good board scores and grades. I know people with good scores and grades, but are not AOA that are being rejected by the top 20 or so programs. You also need something to help you stand out from the crowd of good numbers and good letters if you want a shot at the top 10. It's been fierce this year as well. I think the trend will continue. Also many people have applied to alot more programs. It's starting to look like derm, ortho, ENT and plastics, but still not quite there. Anyway, nothing we can do about the applicant pool at this point in the game.
     
  12. bobcat

    bobcat Member

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    What are the top radiology programs?
     
  13. madomi

    madomi New Member

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    what are the top programs?
     
  14. Voxel

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    I would like to hear from those on the interview trail to see if they have had any inappropriate interviewers?
     
  15. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    We'll I've been to 8 radiology interviews and 4 transitional ones and so far no inappropriate questions or problems. Everyone has been very professional.
     
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  17. Voxel

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    How is Michigan Rads? I hear it's a superb program TOP 10-15 for academics? Any recent changes. Also any info on William Beaumont Rads?
     
  18. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    Michigan is very good but like all academic programs have lost some faculty to the communities. I guess you'd have to talk to them to see if you like them. They do seem to have a hint of superiority going on there which you may like or may hate. Seems like every U program I've been to has been having that problem and with the U hospitals all having some financial pressure the faculty has to work more to bring in the cash. Seems like all programs are having this problem and with all the studies being done today, it seems like a Radiology residency is like being an apprentice in some sorts, not like the old days where you could leisurely do research all day and have little clinical involvement.

    I'll be interviewing at Beaumont in January but have a friend there now and she really likes it, beautiful hospital, beautiful city too. Of course my only info is from what I gathered from friends or a day interview so may not be complete.
     
  19. Voxel

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    I will be interviewing there in January as well. Maybe we will bump into each other and never know it. ;) I hope the weather will hold up.
     
  20. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    I've been on 7 interviews so far and every program but one community hospital program said they had academic vacancies, obviously some in more peril than others. This fightens me a bit because it's the resident that will suffer from this leaching of academia to the private sector. Solid, well rounded academic/university programs are becoming shotty and half-baked, and will have to more often out-source their residents to other hospitals and private offices to make up for lost training. Also, the remaining academic staff must compensate for the manpower shortage which gives them less time to teach their chosen modality. So now, the preaching I'm getting from PD's is that they are looking for "independent learners". I feel what they are really saying is they are looking for those who can learn radiology on their own.
     
  21. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    I'll be at Beaumont on Monday Jan 14 so if you're there I will see you.

    It does seem that the University positions in Radiology aren't as good as they once were with the vacant academic positions, increased work load, and University hospital cash shortage. I'm looking for a program that is in a nice city, friendly residents and one where I think I'd get pretty good teaching. So far I've been fairly impressed with the community programs more than I thought I would and some community programs actually have more staff than the University programs while having fewer residents. Again, we won't be spoon fed this stuff anymore so lots of studying on our own and being aggressive with whatever attending/faculty is working that day so we can learn as much as possible.
     
  22. Voxel

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    Yes the shortage of manpower and the current state of high turnover in academic radiology departments is troubling. Before, you could be reasonably sure that the faculty would be stable, but now anything goes. The place could be totally different with new program director and faculty then when you were applying. Some big wigs have lost entire departments such as neuro and IR. :eek: I have interviewed at some community hospitals who have private practice groups with residency programs that I am much more confident will have less turn-over. Although they do not have access to the research $s, they do seem to know their stuff and teach. In fact some community programs have much higher faculty:resident ratios than academics. Also, I found some of these programs are a much warmer place to be and that was reflected in the residents I met. As far as fellowships go, I think anyone can get a fellowship, but it is important to see who has gotten a MSK fellowship (this area is hot among residents today). I also wonder about the choice jobs that are kept close to the vest and not advertised on recruiters websites. Do people at well known institutions get first crack at these or is it a regional thing or a combination of the two? These are some of my latest ponderings as I try to make a rank list.
     
  23. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Just got back from a program which the PD had a group interview with 9 candidates. I was asked about my golfing past as my only question. Odd way to conduct an interview, I thought. Starting to think about my pitiful rank list and how I'm going to try and convince the PD's to rank me high to increase my chances of matching somewhere.
     
  24. Voxel

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    I'm not sure that necessarily means he was not interested in you. Maybe he's just tired of talking about the same things over and over again. You never know when you might hit it off with a PD. These days, good applicants are plenty and most would do a good job. Why not have residents that you like and have some things in common with?
     

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