Random VA hiring/negotiating questions

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neuronic

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Hi everyone. I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with getting VA internship or VA postdoc years credited for retirement, or if anyone has started at higher than a GS-13 step 1 (right out of a two year post doc with their license)? One reason why I ask is because at the end of 2012, a new regulation went into effect regarding contributions to the basic benefit retirement plan. Specifically: "employees enrolled in FERS and first hired before 2013 contribute 0.8% of their pay to the CSRDF. Employees enrolled in FERS and first hired in 2013 contribute 3.1% of pay to the CSRDF. Employees enrolled in FERS and first hired after 2013 contribute 4.4% of pay to the CSRDF. " Over the course of a 30 year career, that is a lot of out of pocket money, and as such, I am wondering if I can qualify under the following technicality to reduce tax liability as I have been "employed" in the VA consecutively (no gaps in service since prior to Dec 2012): "2. The individual on December 31, 2012, was performing civilian service which is creditable or potentially creditable service under FERS (for example the individual may have been covered under another retirement system from which service credit may be transferred to FERS, such as CSRS, CSRS-Offset, Foreign Service, Federal Reserve, or CIARDS." My main concern is that on internship and postdoc, we are not on the GS pay scale, nor make other retirement contributions other than social security. I know it is a stretch, but as I mentioned, over a long career, the money really adds up. Would this really just be up to HR's discretion? Any thoughts?

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Hi everyone. I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with getting VA internship or VA postdoc years credited for retirement, or if anyone has started at higher than a GS-13 step 1 (right out of a two year post doc with their license)? One reason why I ask is because at the end of 2012, a new regulation went into effect regarding contributions to the basic benefit retirement plan. Specifically: "employees enrolled in FERS and first hired before 2013 contribute 0.8% of their pay to the CSRDF. Employees enrolled in FERS and first hired in 2013 contribute 3.1% of pay to the CSRDF. Employees enrolled in FERS and first hired after 2013 contribute 4.4% of pay to the CSRDF. " Over the course of a 30 year career, that is a lot of out of pocket money, and as such, I am wondering if I can qualify under the following technicality to reduce tax liability as I have been "employed" in the VA consecutively (no gaps in service since prior to Dec 2012): "2. The individual on December 31, 2012, was performing civilian service which is creditable or potentially creditable service under FERS (for example the individual may have been covered under another retirement system from which service credit may be transferred to FERS, such as CSRS, CSRS-Offset, Foreign Service, Federal Reserve, or CIARDS." My main concern is that on internship and postdoc, we are not on the GS pay scale, nor make other retirement contributions other than social security. I know it is a stretch, but as I mentioned, over a long career, the money really adds up. Would this really just be up to HR's discretion? Any thoughts?

If you are talking about beign vested, that takes years, so internship and pos-doc wouldnt be long enough to cover that.
 
Not for being vested, but if they would technically consider me a hired employee since 2012, with just a change in location, or if the hire date will reflect when I actually start in the new position.
 
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I think it depends on how long you have been a GS level employee. As interns and postdocs, we are not technically full-time staff. Your service time for annual and sick leave counts with the intern/postdoc years, but I don't think benefits do. At least that's what I have been told.
 
Speaking to the vested part, I believe that if your internship and/or post-doc SF-50's show the appropriate retirement plan (I think it's FICA), then those years can count toward the 30 you need for full pension benefits and/or toward leave accrual (as WisNeuro mentioned).

However, if you weren't actually contributing to retirement while on internship/postdoc, I don't think you get grandfathered in to the old rate. I believe there might also be a line somewhere that specifically disqualifies folks on time-limited assignments, which is how standard internship and postdoc positions are classified.

Certainly worth asking HR, though.

As for negotiating higher than a step 1, it's certainly possible, but I'd imagine it's going to be much more likely if you have some sort of amazing credential, or if you're taking a particularly hard-to-fill position (which isn't the case for psychologist spots at most VAs, unfortunately). That latter bit also applies to things like signing bonuses, relocation funds, and the like...although one thing I learned is that those sorts of perks need to be specifically listed as potentially available in the job posting in order for HR to actually be able to offer them. At least that's what was told to me.
 
Thanks everyone. I know it is likely wishful thinking, but the worst they can say is no. Or I guess the true worst is they could get frustrated and pull their offer, but it is something I need to ask now, rather than after the fact.
 
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Thanks everyone. I know it is likely wishful thinking, but the worst they can say is no. Or I guess the true worst is they could get frustrated and pull their offer, but it is something I need to ask now, rather than after the fact.

Yep, no harm in asking. I requested a few different things myself; I was told "no" for all of them, but even the HR person then essentially said, "hey, you absolutely should've asked, no problem."
 
I negotiated my step within GS12 when I started. I had a year and half post-doc experience and they want to start me at 12 step 1. I told them I would happily take 12 step 4.
 
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This is more general advice to people interested in working in the VA system: You want to know the classification of the job and make sure you are on the same page in the beginning. Some jobs may list GS11-GS13, which is a huge range. I had a few VA recruit me towards the end of fellowship and I was upfront that I would only consider GS-13 (step not specified). It wasn't a sticking point for any of them, but I had seen postings in the past that were only for GS12.
 
As most have said, definitely check with your HR (which can sometimes interpret nationwide policies in different ways). My understanding from reading the retirement and TSP information was that internship and postdoctoral training in VA cannot count toward retirement years total because you did not have a retirement plan developed for you as a non-permanent employee.

However, as WisNeuro mentioned, you can use your time in internship and/or postdoc to change your service computation date. This is the date that marks your first day entering public service. This can have an impact on things like the rate at which you earn annual leave (AL). For example, the first three years in VA you earn 4 hours of AL per pay period. Beginning year 3, you earn 6 hours of AL per pay period (still only 4 hours of sick leave per pay period though, that never changes). After another big chunk of time (I want to say 13 years?) you earn 8 hours of AL per pay period. By making sure HR uses the first date of your internship year as your service computation date (or otherwise accounting for your time served if you don't go straight into a job), you will ensure that you earn more leave sooner.

There may be more benefits to adjusting your service computation date, but I'm not sure what they are. Good luck with all this! It's a complex system to figure out.
 
As most have said, definitely check with your HR (which can sometimes interpret nationwide policies in different ways). My understanding from reading the retirement and TSP information was that internship and postdoctoral training in VA cannot count toward retirement years total because you did not have a retirement plan developed for you as a non-permanent employee.

However, as WisNeuro mentioned, you can use your time in internship and/or postdoc to change your service computation date. This is the date that marks your first day entering public service. This can have an impact on things like the rate at which you earn annual leave (AL). For example, the first three years in VA you earn 4 hours of AL per pay period. Beginning year 3, you earn 6 hours of AL per pay period (still only 4 hours of sick leave per pay period though, that never changes). After another big chunk of time (I want to say 13 years?) you earn 8 hours of AL per pay period. By making sure HR uses the first date of your internship year as your service computation date (or otherwise accounting for your time served if you don't go straight into a job), you will ensure that you earn more leave sooner.

There may be more benefits to adjusting your service computation date, but I'm not sure what they are. Good luck with all this! It's a complex system to figure out.

Yep, that's exactly my understanding as well (although you did a much better job spelling it all out than I did above). The only point I would add, and this might just be a factor of the HR dept/person with whom I spoke, is this re: the service computation date--I was told that for internship and postdoc to be eligible to count, you need to have been classified in a certain way when you were hired. I'd imagine all folks completing psych internships and postdocs should be classified as they need to be, as I'd hope it's standard across all VAs, but who knows; I do know that the information is available on your SF-50 in box 30, though.
 
I know that at my current job the service computation date was not automatically back-dated to the first day of my internship when I was hired. It took my HR about 6 months (with my insistence and occasional pestering) to get the needed documentation from my internship and postdoc sites, which also included transferring earned sick leave (which can never be lost). On internship I was forced by HR to use up all AL prior to the end of the year, while on my postdoc it was paid out to me on my last paycheck. My understanding was that I couldn't transfer my AL from postdoc because my current job is at a higher pay and therefore my AL was "worth more" here in dollars than it was on postdoc. Anyway, this is way more detail than the OP requested :) It's so easy to get lost in the minutiae.
 
I'm hoping to thread jack to ask another VA question. Are grade increases, specifically for GS-11 to GS-12 and GS-12 to GS-13, done automatically after 12 months of service and being in good standing or do employees need to request or negotiate these grade increases? If these are not automatic, how far in advance do you recommend starting the process?
 
I'm hoping to thread jack to ask another VA question. Are grade increases, specifically for GS-11 to GS-12 and GS-12 to GS-13, done automatically after 12 months of service and being in good standing or do employees need to request or negotiate these grade increases? If these are not automatic, how far in advance do you recommend starting the process?
at my VA it was automatic, but I had to get in touch with HR to make sure that it was done correctly. When I switched from GS 12 to GS 13, the computer did an automatic step increase at my year mark. So I got very upset when I was expecting GS 13 and I logged into the computer and I was GS 12 step 2. I sent a flurry of emails because suddenly I didn't know for sure if they planned to make me GS 13. Turns out that they had to override the automatic step increase and make it a grade increase, which caused a month delay in my promotion. The pay was backdated to when it should have increased. It was a bit stressful. So I'd recommend staying in touch with HR wherever you end up.
 
Very helpful. Thanks for the information, Psycycle.
 
Similar to Psycycle, at this stage, I have not had to negotiate any step or grade increases, they have all been done based on time in the system. I've also had to make sure HR was on track; in my case they also operated on a delay, but they gave me back pay to the date that the step/grade increase should have been made.

More globally within VA, you have two main opportunities to negotiate your grade/step: at the hiring stage (prior to entering the system), and when applying for merit-based step increases. On initial hiring, HR and credentialing committees have some leeway (which varies by VISN/facility) to allow you to come in at varying GS/step levels. There is a set of national rules to follow, but I have seen GS levels above simple time-based allowance be offered, so I know it happens.

Within the employee manual there should be a section about merit-based promotion opportunities. The types of accomplishments may include: sitting on national executive committees, publications of a certain frequency and/or prestige, university affiliations, etc. These accomplishments do not automatically increase your step rating unless you advocate for yourself. There are rotating cycles of when the best time is to apply for a merit-based promotion, and they run in tandem with time-based promotions. Your HR (as well as your administrative leadership) can work with you to help you navigate this process.

Otherwise, when sitting tight, most people will get their time-based promotions as the clock ticks along.
 
Glad to hear this is pretty standardized. Thanks for the info!
 
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