Range of USMLEs scores required for surgery?

[shreypete]

Hello there everybody,

I'm currently a medical student in Europe (Charles University, Prague) and I want to practice in the US. I specifically want to do a residency in General Surgery (although I'm a beginner and my preferences may change over the years, I'm still very much interested). How competitive is the General Surgery program for IMGs (international medical graduates)?

Also what are the range of scores required for getting into the general surgery residency program. I eventually want to narrow down my interest to a specific field (such as neuro or cardiothoracic surgery) through a fellowship program but all of that happens only after the completion of a general sugery program.

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[iamcatwoman]

VERY competitive. Aim for a Step 1 in the 90s - ideally over 95.

 

[barcalounger]

I eventually want to narrow down my interest to a specific field (such as neuro or cardiothoracic surgery) through a fellowship program but all of that happens only after the completion of a general sugery program.

Actually, it does not happen that way. In the US, neurosurgery has its own match with no separate general surgery match.

 

[shreypete]

And I also heard that one needs to do clinical electives, observerships, and research (publication oriented) to bank a spot in any of the surgical sub-specialties?

First of all what are observerhsips? How do I do clinical electives and research in the US? Do they consider the USMLE scores for this? would I have to take some time off after the USMLEs to do these pre-requisites and then match in to surgery? Because I don't think doing research or clinical electives in my university or any other european country would really matter much. Would it? (I was thinking of doing some clinical electives in Sweden or Norway in the 5th or 6th yr in surgery but I don't think it's really worth it).

 

[iamcatwoman]

You should absolutely get as much US Clinical Experience in surgery as you can in order to get good letters of recommendation from US surgeons in order to match into surgery.

Observerships are essentially shadowing positions, and you are not supposed to have any hands-on patient care experience. So in most cases, your letters of recommendation from observerships will not be very helpful as they won't address your clinical skills. If you're still a med student, then you would be eligible to do an externship which would allow you hands-on clinical experience (so much much better than an observership).

And you're right- clinical experience in Europe wont be considered by most US residency programs unless the program director happens to be very familiar with European medical training, or you work with someone who is world famous and therefore known by the US program director. And even then, you should still get some US experience.

 

[Friendly]

VERY competitive. Aim for a Step 1 in the 90s - ideally over 95.

You know that a score of 90 is around the average for all examinees, right? 90 this past year was around a 216.

OP: general surgery is not that competitive. neurosurgery, plastics, and ortho....different story.

 

[shreypete]

I specifically want to aim for cardiothoracic surgery and I assume it requires a pre-requisite of General Surgery as it's a fellowship. I just also wanted to find out about Neurosurgery and Otolaryngology as I have a few friends interested in those fields.

 

[Friendly]

I specifically want to aim for cardiothoracic surgery and I assume it requires a pre-requisite of General Surgery as it's a fellowship. I just also wanted to find out about Neurosurgery and Otolaryngology as I have a few friends interested in those fields.

Yes, CT is usually a two-year fellowship after a five-year general surgery residency. Getting a passing score on Step 1 and Step 2 to match in general surgery are needed. It's your performance as a general surgery trainee rather than board scores that will get you that fellowship. However, you will still be asked for scores at every level of the game, so do your best always.

 

[shreypete]

And I'm a bit confused as to what category I belong to?

I'm an Indian citizen (grew up in the US) and I'm attending medical school in Europe. Will I be competing against my fellow students in Europe (specifically Czech Republic or the whole of Europe?) or will my be competing against the other indian students (as I'm an indian citizen)? How does that whole thing work?

 

[Friendly]

And I'm a bit confused as to what category I belong to?

I'm an Indian citizen (grew up in the US) and I'm attending medical school in Europe. Will I be competing against my fellow students in Europe (specifically Czech Republic or the whole of Europe?) or will my be competing against the other indian students (as I'm an indian citizen)? How does that whole thing work?

Not really sure what you're getting at.

If you apply to a U.S. residency program, the order of selection goes like this:
U.S. M.D./D.O graduates > U.S. citizens from foreign med schools > foreign citizens from foreign med schools.

This means that your application is considered only after U.S.-trained physicians (I'm assuming you either have U.S. citizenship or a green card as well as Indian citizenship). If you do not have U.S. citizenship/GC, it's the worst situation. Sorry. Do well on Step 1 and Step 2. That is within your control right now.

 

[shreypete]

Unfortunatley I'm not a US citizen (due to my father's occupation)...so i guess USMLEs are my only shot after all along with a couple of clinical electives and research work....

 

[HomerSD]

You know that a score of 90 is around the average for all examinees, right? 90 this past year was around a 216.

OP: general surgery is not that competitive. neurosurgery, plastics, and ortho....different story.

This is not true. General surgery is very competitive, particularly for IMGs. In the 2007 match, out of a total of 1057 spots, only 74 non US IMGs matched into Gen Surg. About 830 went to US graduates, and the remainder went to US grad re-applicants, US IMGs (56 spots), DOs and Canadian applicants. Only 2 spots were left open after the scramble. Gen Surg had an position to applicant ratio of 0.6, only beat by Plastics with a ratio of 0.5 and tied with Derm. 10% of US grads did not match into Gen Surg and 60% of independent grads (ie IMGs) did not match.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2007.pdf