Rank List Advice

[TadpoleSurgeon]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on my rank list and trying to sort out my top programs. I'm really struggling to decide where to rank each program, especially given what little exposure we get to programs during the interview process. If anyone, especially fellow surgery applicants at these institutions, has any advice on the following programs, please feel free to PM me or respond on this post. I'd really appreciate any comments you have.

U of Colorado
Hopkins
Vanderbilt
MGH
UTSW
UCSF
UCLA
Michigan

Thanks in advance for your help!

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[haihai4]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on my rank list and trying to sort out my top programs. I'm really struggling to decide where to rank each program, especially given what little exposure we get to programs during the interview process. If anyone, especially fellow surgery applicants at these institutions, has any advice on the following programs, please feel free to PM me or respond on this post. I'd really appreciate any comments you have.

U of Colorado
Hopkins
Vanderbilt
MGH
UTSW
UCSF
UCLA
Michigan

Thanks in advance for your help!

Doesn't Vandy have all that drama with mistreatment of their gen surg resident Eugene Gu? I was reading about it a couple days ago...not sure if that's the environment you want to be in....that's all i got.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Doesn't Vandy have all that drama with mistreatment of their gen surg resident Eugene Gu? I was reading about it a couple days ago...not sure if that's the environment you want to be in....that's all i got.

You think Vandy is mistreating him?

 

[SpecializedSurgeon]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on my rank list and trying to sort out my top programs. I'm really struggling to decide where to rank each program, especially given what little exposure we get to programs during the interview process. If anyone, especially fellow surgery applicants at these institutions, has any advice on the following programs, please feel free to PM me or respond on this post. I'd really appreciate any comments you have.

U of Colorado
Hopkins
Vanderbilt
MGH
UTSW
UCSF
UCLA
Michigan

Thanks in advance for your help!

Tough to guide as they are all high-end academic places. With zero other info I bet you’d be happy and well trained at all of the above.

 

[haihai4]

You think Vandy is mistreating him?

It comes off as an extremely toxic environment and am mortified by how he is being attacked on social media (no one deserves that, I don't care what issues are present). That being said, am not privvy to the full extent of all the problems and the back and forth between the institution and this resident. It is, however, worthy of investigation for any candidate who is hoping to match there, for the sake of clarity.

For me, after a conversation with a faculty member, it was an immediate turnoff and I don't want to be part of a program that has so much drama going on. That's my personal take. One of my good friends liked Vandy a lot on interview day and is planning on ranking them #1 so everyone has their own priorities.

 

[TadpoleSurgeon]

I actually had not heard about that before seeing this post and reading about it. It's definitely an interesting situation, and doubtful we have all of the details. Thanks for your advice so far!

 

[TadpoleSurgeon]

Now that ROLs are due in a week and a half, does anyone else have any last minute opinions?

 

[haihai4]

Now that ROLs are due in a week and a half, does anyone else have any last minute opinions?

In the same boat as you, tadpole. Struggling between ranking the top 2 on my list. Lmk if you made any moves since you last posted!

 

[SLUser11]

It comes off as an extremely toxic environment and am mortified by how he is being attacked on social media (no one deserves that, I don't care what issues are present). That being said, am not privvy to the full extent of all the problems and the back and forth between the institution and this resident. It is, however, worthy of investigation for any candidate who is hoping to match there, for the sake of clarity.

For me, after a conversation with a faculty member, it was an immediate turnoff and I don't want to be part of a program that has so much drama going on. That's my personal take. One of my good friends liked Vandy a lot on interview day and is planning on ranking them #1 so everyone has their own priorities.

I agree that avoiding drama is a good idea. However, I would guess that Vandy is a top-notch program and that single resident's experience might not be indicative of a universal malignancy...of course, I always felt that where there's smoke, there's fire.

On a side note, I certainly don't condone any illegal or unethical behavior, or even simple intimidation and bullying, against this resident...but I'm a bit annoyed by the resident after perusing his Twitter profile and posts. He clearly likes publicity and attention, and there may be some other character flaws that really drive his co-residents disliking him. Also, he's violating one of the most important tenets of medicine and surgery: The patient comes first...it's not about him and his opinions and his rights...it's about the patient.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I'm with @SLUser11. Hard to know what the full story is, but I can tell you that based on his conduct on social media, he doesn't strike me as the type of resident I would want to work with. And not because I care one way or the other about his political views (I probably fall towards the liberal side, anyway). But because his goal (even before this incident) seems to be to cultivate a career as a social media influencer and then perhaps politician. If that's the case, I'd be concerned about his ability to function in a team where the focus (as someone else mentioned) is to care for patients.

All that being a way to say that I wouldnt let this turn you off to Vandy.

 

[haihai4]

I agree that avoiding drama is a good idea. However, I would guess that Vandy is a top-notch program and that single resident's experience might not be indicative of a universal malignancy...of course, I always felt that where there's smoke, there's fire.

On a side note, I certainly don't condone any illegal or unethical behavior, or even simple intimidation and bullying, against this resident...but I'm a bit annoyed by the resident after perusing his Twitter profile and posts. He clearly likes publicity and attention, and there may be some other character flaws that really drive his co-residents disliking him. Also, he's violating one of the most important tenets of medicine and surgery: The patient comes first...it's not about him and his opinions and his rights...it's about the patient.

Yea, hard to say really without knowing all the details. He does come off slightly obnoxious in his social media posts.

This actually brings up an interesting set of questions: if an institution is making a public statement about you, are you not allowed to call them out too publicly? Then comes the issue of: if your patients are racist or discriminatory towards you because of a view that you hold, is this ok? I'm curious because I have been discriminated against before by patients and I kind of stay quiet and let it go...but is this the best way to go about it? At the end of the day we too are human beings who deserve dignity and respect. Sometimes I wonder if patients are put on this pedestal where unacceptable behavior is tolerated because "patient first." And then, are physicians not allowed to hold political/policy views without worrying that they will be discriminated against? Calling out BS is so important, especially in this political climate, and I feel like white coats often have a silencing effect that I find disturbing.

Anyway, sorry OP this is slightly off topic, but I do think is an interesting situation that requires some discussion on a national level. I don't have the answers to any of these questions, but would love to hear other people's perspectives.

 

[haihai4]

I'm with @SLUser11. Hard to know what the full story is, but I can tell you that based on his conduct on social media, he doesn't strike me as the type of resident I would want to work with. And not because I care one way or the other about his political views (I probably fall towards the liberal side, anyway). But because his goal (even before this incident) seems to be to cultivate a career as a social media influencer and then perhaps politician. If that's the case, I'd be concerned about his ability to function in a team where the focus (as someone else mentioned) is to care for patients.

All that being a way to say that I wouldnt let this turn you off to Vandy.

I don't think that's an obstacle to providing safe and effective care to patients. Many surgeons do it successfully, they just typically aren't residents in training and have attending positions which gives them a lot more freedom of expression without retribution. But then again, should our rank determine our ability to participate in our democracy?

 

[RazorSB123]

I'm with @SLUser11. Hard to know what the full story is, but I can tell you that based on his conduct on social media, he doesn't strike me as the type of resident I would want to work with. And not because I care one way or the other about his political views (I probably fall towards the liberal side, anyway). But because his goal (even before this incident) seems to be to cultivate a career as a social media influencer and then perhaps politician. If that's the case, I'd be concerned about his ability to function in a team where the focus (as someone else mentioned) is to care for patients.

All that being a way to say that I wouldnt let this turn you off to Vandy.

WOW. So many terrible assumptions here. The more I read posts on SDN the more I realize how pathetic and insecure many physicians are. A desire to be a politician = a poor team member. What research is that thought derived from? And the post before yours --- "... a character flaw." A character flaw? He is fighting injustice and you characterize it as a character flaw, based on what, your in depth psychological evaluation of him? Ah, no, based on your perusing of hist twitter posts. This is disgusting. I wish medical schools and residency programs weeded out students and trainees who use a lack of evidence to jump to judgments in order to serve their inflated sense of entitlement.

 

[Green Jello]

WOW. So many terrible assumptions here. The more I read posts on SDN the more I realize how pathetic and insecure many physicians are. A desire to be a politician = a poor team member. What research is that thought derived from? And the post before yours --- "... a character flaw." A character flaw? He is fighting injustice and you characterize it as a character flaw, based on what, your in depth psychological evaluation of him? Ah, no, based on your perusing of hist twitter posts. This is disgusting. I wish medical schools and residency programs weeded out students and trainees who use a lack of evidence to jump to judgments in order to serve their inflated sense of entitlement.

Well said

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Well said

Eugene, is that you again?