Rank List Help

[DaBigDawg]

Interested in cardiology. I have most of my rank list worked out but I am not sure how to rank these program:

Northwestern
U. Chicago
BID
Mayo
UCLA

Here are my thoughts about these programs. I would appreciate feedback:

I've heard both NW and U. Chicago are third tier cardiology programs so doing a residency there might not be the best idea if you want to go into cardiology. Does anyone have last year's NW cardiology match list?

Mayo is great for cardiology fellowship and they take a good number of their own people. Perhaps residency training is sub-optimal?

BID: Good cardiology fellowship but questionable residency traning. Any ideas about this program?

UCLA: Not a great fellowship match. Some stay at UCLA but UCLA doesn't really keep that many of its own residents .... especially if they don't sign up to do extra years of research.

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[MSIV]

I would go...

UCLA
U. Chicago
Northwestern
BID
Mayo

Putting Mayo last would be easy for me, because lets be honest, do you really want to live in Rochester MN for 3 years? In order for me to consider that, it would have to be so much better than your other choices that you would be foolish to turn it down. And although it may be better than some on your list, its certainly not THAT much better.

I did not like BID, so putting that 2nd to last is also easy for me. Although their cards program is good, their fellowship match list is pretty poor. I don't like their call schedule, and I think that their patient popultion is pretty limited. In a city of under a million people you have MGH up the road and BWH across the freakin street. So, who exactly is going to the BI? For me, all things being equal, I think it is better to go to the best place in any particular city.

Of the group, UCLA has the best rep, the best location, the best cards program, and very good training. So, putting them 1st should be easy.

And finally, u.chicago has a better rep and better clincial training than northwestern, but both are stil lvery good, so I would put them 2 and 3 respectively.

Hey, let me ask ya...how would you compare Mount Sinai and UCLA (also interested in cards)?

Thanks and best of luck!

 

[DaBigDawg]

UCLA's cardiology program isn't that good in my opinion (of course, how cares what a 4th year medical student thinks).

A few residents go on to the UCLA fellowship but they have to commit to pursuing a PhD if they do (or at the very least 2-3 years of research). I don't mind doing research but I don't like the idea of having to commit all the extra time as a prerequisite. If you take the UCLA cardiology fellowship spots out, the match list doesn't look that good--- places like UC-Irvine, UCLA-Harbor, and UC-Davis dominate the list.

Don't know too much about Sinai-- Not top tier... maybe 2nd but not sure.

What is BID's call schedule and why do you not like it? I think it was Q5 with no overnight but I'm not sure if I remember correctly. I think its similar at NW.

Why does everyone talk so highly of U.C. I liked my interview but I didn't think they were better than NW. Also, u. Chicago has a HORRIBLE computer system. Does anyone know details about the amount of scut at U.of C-- about the ancillary staff and about their computer system?

I feel about the same as you do about Mayo.

 

[TheOneTwo]

I'd disagree partly ...

I'm deciding between similar choices and here's my take:

Mayo COMPLETELY depends on how much you care about location and little else. Mayo does have good clinical training and few can say that Northwestern or BIDMC are better (their cush rep and posh private populations far exceeds that of Mayo). Also, Mayo does have by far the best cards program in that list (look at the names, the research, the rankings, whatever you want).

If you don't care about location, I'd rank based on cards placement and rep:
Mayo
UCLA
UChicago
Northwestern
BIDMC

If you DO care about location,then if you put LA=Chicago=Boston (ie, don't care as long as it's big city),
UCLA
UChicago
Northwestern
BIDMC
Mayo

UCLA placed 9/9 last year in cards. I'm not sure how many applied, but only 3 and 2 went into cards the previous 2 yrs. Maybe that's because only 2-3 out of a class of about 40 wanted cards, but that would be odd considering cards has been consistently one of the most sought after fields. Also, it seems like the ability to get into UCLA cards is limited to a STRONG research interest. Otherwise, Cedars-Sinai is your most likely bet for fellowship.

With regards to Mount Sinai v. UCLA, I'd say it depends again on where you want to be and stay for fellowship. It seems like Sinai residents all place in NYC and UCLA tend to all stay in LA with very few exceptions. I've known people prior to 2003 to come out of Sinai and match at MGH and other places. Also, the Sinai match is "safer" with 6-8 residents matching every year and something close to 100% of residents matching each year. Maybe that's because once people get to NYC or LA they don't want to leave. However, you do have to take this into consideration.

 

[MSIV]

Thanks for the input about UCLA.

As for the BI, personally I don't like it when there is no overnight call. It means that on your call nights you are "supposed" to leave the hospital by 10pm, but in reality it is usually around 11, you get home by 12, shower and fall asleep by 1, get up to preround at 5, then work the whole next day until 6ish. Without overnight call, although you get a little more sleep, its almost like you never leave the hospital. Its every day 6-6, without a let up or a change in pace. Then, on your black weekend, its 12 days in a row like that. Seeing the sun becomes a rare event.

For me, I like overnight call. It changes the pace. Yeah, you're dead tired post-call but at least you're out of the hospital during day light hours. If you're not that tired then you can enjoy the day...if you are tired, you can grab a blanket and take a nap in the park (or on the beach at UCLA). I don't know, in med school I have had it both ways and I always thought it was better to stay overnight and leave the next day. Just my preference.

To be honest, I don't think it would matter to me all that much if I liked the program. I just really didn't like it there: I was not impressed with the residents, I didn't like to program director, I felt like everyone had this inferiority complex about being the "least" of the Harvards (instead of just being proud of what they are), I don't think the patient population is that varied, and most of all I just didn't get a good "feel" about the place.

As for U. Chicago, it is considered to be the most "reputable" in the city, with more opportunities for research and greater NIH support. Clinically speaking, I think that you will encounter alot of private patients at NW becasue of its location. Personally, I like to have alot of autonomy, and I think that there is more at U. Chicago. In terms of computer system, do you really care? We each have our own priorities and preferences (god knows I have some weird ones), but are you really prepared to choose a program becasue it takes a few seconds less to put in orders? As for ancillary staff, I am not sure.

Take care.

 

[DaBigDawg]

I don't know if Chicago really does have a better reputaiton. On this board it seems they do but if so, why is their match list so poor.... especially in cardiology?

Northwesterns matchlist is decent.

Does anyone have any details about BID's match list prior to this past years. Only a few people went into cardiology this past year from BID and they all went to mediocre places... prior years have had more applicants match but BID did not tell me where they went. That information would be very helpful.

Also, does anyone have any information about where NW residents went this past year for cardiology fellowships and if anyone did not match that applied to cardiology?

 

[snoozz]

bidmc match list may be a bit misleading - i think alot of ppl are taking a yr off to be a hospitalist, prob applying for fellowship in 3rd yr. it sounds like a lot of ppl didn't like the place, i actually kinda did cuz it seems really chill (i am not a huge gunner ... so i am more comfortable at a relaxed setting), there is not as big of pressure to apply for fellowship immediately after intern year. although i am also curious about prior match list, that will give a better sense of what ppl do after those 1 yr time off.

u chicago, i do agree, it seems like lot of ppl regard it very highly on this forum, they have pretty good match list, but most of them are in-house, so its hard for me to judge ...

I don't know if Chicago really does have a better reputaiton. On this board it seems they do but if so, why is their match list so poor.... especially in cardiology?

Northwesterns matchlist is decent.

Does anyone have any details about BID's match list prior to this past years. Only a few people went into cardiology this past year from BID and they all went to mediocre places... prior years have had more applicants match but BID did not tell me where they went. That information would be very helpful.

Also, does anyone have any information about where NW residents went this past year for cardiology fellowships and if anyone did not match that applied to cardiology?

 

[socal4life]

To the OP (DABIGDAWG):

it sounds like you really want to go to BID?
Is that your #1 right now or is it Penn?
Why not just go with your heart and see what city, what system is the best fit for you?

All of these programs will provide you the requsite opportunties to match in Cardiology and these programs will primarily only help match at top places in their region (in general) so pick what region you want to be in, which is? That is not a slight at these programs, but just stating that they arent UCSF/MGH/Hopkins/BWH/Duke that produce 15+ cards/year at top places. So what I mean is these programs (the ones you are debating) are all top-notch and will get you a top cards spot in that region, so you need to pick what region you want if you really are that demanding on going to a top-tier cards program. If you want to get into any cards program, then all of those programs you listed are great and will get you in.

 

[DaBigDawg]

I liked Boston, Chicago, and LA and I think I would get along with the people at all the programs I am enquiring about. But even if I didn't, the most important things to me right now are fellowship placement and lack of scut work/malignancy (defined as a good computer system, good ancillary staff, and good attending/resident and resident/resident interactions).