can anyone rank the madical universities? i mean to say top 10 or top 15 universities of medicine of teh world.??? what is the reputaion of russian medical schools/medical institutes in teh world?
rank of medical universities.
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At the risk of sounding a little ethnocentric, I would guess that the top 15 medical schools in the world are nearly the same as the top 10 to 15 schools in the US. I imagine there's maybe 1 or 2 schools in Europe that might compete. Although we're not necessarily the best at providing insurance for everyone, we are known for the most advanced care in the world (e.g., no one goes to Sweden for brain surgery; they come here) and advanced care probably correlates with a quality medical school, though not necessarily with a quality medical education.
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You obviously don't watch Nova..lol...
A few years back there was an episode about Americans going to the University of Lund (in Sweden) for very, very cutting edge brain surgery... In terms of the amount of money spent and the number of people empolyed in it, the research in scandanavia and england and holland, et c. is far more productive...
The University of Lund is very good...but think about some other medical schools in Europe....such as St. George's (not THAT one!) or the University of Paris...
But as you pointed out---there is a difference between how good the school's research or medical care is, vs. how good the undergraduate instruction is...and, face it, we Americans do a pretty cruddy job in the classroom as a rule...I think a place where the students are expected to master the principles and think thru the problems--rahter than just memorize facts to re spit back up at test time is a good thing...now, I am open to PBL--but I do think it needs to be more academic...perhaps, by combining lectures on the appropriate basic science with the question at hand...
Anyways, the point is, if you are wondering where you will get the best education, don't be so sure it would be in the USA no master what.. But the experience of being in school is a factor in addition to the actual classroom instruction you recieve...I for one would turn down Hopkins to go to Oxford, even though the "instruction" would not be as "good"...I presume many are the same--but don't actually know...
Anyways, I ramble..it is VERY early..please forgive me..
Best to all, JA
A few years back there was an episode about Americans going to the University of Lund (in Sweden) for very, very cutting edge brain surgery... In terms of the amount of money spent and the number of people empolyed in it, the research in scandanavia and england and holland, et c. is far more productive...
The University of Lund is very good...but think about some other medical schools in Europe....such as St. George's (not THAT one!) or the University of Paris...
But as you pointed out---there is a difference between how good the school's research or medical care is, vs. how good the undergraduate instruction is...and, face it, we Americans do a pretty cruddy job in the classroom as a rule...I think a place where the students are expected to master the principles and think thru the problems--rahter than just memorize facts to re spit back up at test time is a good thing...now, I am open to PBL--but I do think it needs to be more academic...perhaps, by combining lectures on the appropriate basic science with the question at hand...
Anyways, the point is, if you are wondering where you will get the best education, don't be so sure it would be in the USA no master what.. But the experience of being in school is a factor in addition to the actual classroom instruction you recieve...I for one would turn down Hopkins to go to Oxford, even though the "instruction" would not be as "good"...I presume many are the same--but don't actually know...
Anyways, I ramble..it is VERY early..please forgive me..
Best to all, JA
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Gourman's Guide to Graduate Programs
It lists the top 50 or so med schools in the world. You may be surprised by what you find, but the US only has one in the top 10 I think. I remember this was a topic several months ago, but I am having trouble finding the thread.
It lists the top 50 or so med schools in the world. You may be surprised by what you find, but the US only has one in the top 10 I think. I remember this was a topic several months ago, but I am having trouble finding the thread.
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cchoukal, your comments show a severe lack of knowledge of the world. This is why more American students need to study abroad in order to escape this ridiculous "We're The Best Country on Earth" attitude, and explore what the rest of the world has to offer.
Since I actually spent a semester living outside of the "Great USA", I was able to look back and realize how we are actually not "All That."
The fact that you picked Sweden as an example was your biggest, and most laughable mistake. Worldwide, The nations with the most advanced healthcare, are by far Scandinavian. Nations such as Sweden (your favorite), Finland and Denmark, are responsible for more medical advances than you apparently will ever know.
But don't listen to me, listen to statistics. The most reliable way to judge the quality of healthcare in a nation is by examining things like Infant Mortality Rates per 1,000 live births, and life expectancy. So here's some 1999 numbers for you:
The Grand USA: 6.33 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, Life Expectancy: 76.23
Lowly Sweden : 3.91 infant deaths, life expectancy: 79.29
Finland: 3.8 and 77.32, Norway: 4.96 and 78.36, Denmark:5.11, 76.5, I could go on and on!
And in case you were wondering, France, Germany, Ireland, Austria, Australia, and Japan ALSO beat us! What's all this mean? American ethnocentrism is alive and well, and as ridiculous as ever...
Since I actually spent a semester living outside of the "Great USA", I was able to look back and realize how we are actually not "All That."
The fact that you picked Sweden as an example was your biggest, and most laughable mistake. Worldwide, The nations with the most advanced healthcare, are by far Scandinavian. Nations such as Sweden (your favorite), Finland and Denmark, are responsible for more medical advances than you apparently will ever know.
But don't listen to me, listen to statistics. The most reliable way to judge the quality of healthcare in a nation is by examining things like Infant Mortality Rates per 1,000 live births, and life expectancy. So here's some 1999 numbers for you:
The Grand USA: 6.33 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, Life Expectancy: 76.23
Lowly Sweden : 3.91 infant deaths, life expectancy: 79.29
Finland: 3.8 and 77.32, Norway: 4.96 and 78.36, Denmark:5.11, 76.5, I could go on and on!
And in case you were wondering, France, Germany, Ireland, Austria, Australia, and Japan ALSO beat us! What's all this mean? American ethnocentrism is alive and well, and as ridiculous as ever...
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FANTASTIC MANGO! Beautifully put. The abundance of ignorance and ethnocentricity in the US never ceases to amaze me. I also agree that more people should study abroad if only to learn that we are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to infant mortality rates and our healthcare system (among many other things). Once again, well said Mango. 
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Hello, I agree with Mango that many countries besides the US are very advanced in medicine but I don't think that your statistics prove it. Life expectancy and infant mortality rates are heavily influenced by culture and we in the United States have a very unhealthy culture. Things like drug abuse drive up our infant mortality rates and obesity (VERY prevalent in the US, not as prevalent in Asia or Europe) clearly shortens our overall life expectancy. While you might say this shows that we are not so good at preventative medicine, I don't think that it's fair to use this statitistic to measure our health care system. In terms of being the most "advanced", I do think that most of the best hospitals in the world are in the U.S. and I think that is reflected by where the extremely wealthy in the world or where the heads of state of many countries go for medical attention when they need it. A cardiologist told us that people don't neceessarily live longer with heart conditions then people in Canada however there is a consensus that they do live "healthier" (meaning they are able to function more in their daily lives and feel better despite their heart condition compared to patients in Canada). I'm surprised that so much focus in this thread was put on Europe and not Japan or another asian country. I'm not Japanese and have never experienced the Japanese health care system, but I know that a lot of medical research being published in our scientific journals is being done there. I have heard of asian heads of state going to Japan when they got sick, and also I imagine that having the second largest economy (the US having the first of course) would suggest that their health care system was at least fairly good. Good, advanced medical care and money unfortunately go hand and hand. Many of the European countries that were brought up have much smaller economies and much less individual wealth compared to the U.S. or Japan.
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Vale,
I did not attend First Moscow but I am from the USSR. DO not worry your school has a good reputation.
However, if you want to practice here it will come in play if at all ONLY when you pass USMLE I and II, and CSA with a good results. ONLY THEN when you are applying for residency it might come into the play
I did not attend First Moscow but I am from the USSR. DO not worry your school has a good reputation.
However, if you want to practice here it will come in play if at all ONLY when you pass USMLE I and II, and CSA with a good results. ONLY THEN when you are applying for residency it might come into the play
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When cchoukal said "At the risk of" he had no idea how great a risk he was taking. Take it easy on him. I think most Americans would expect the US to have the best hospitals in the world.
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This is what I found for the 1993 Gourman report! I'm not sure of the validity of the site since Gourman's is copyrighted but it is interesting.
1. Paris (University MEdical and Academic Departments) University of Paris V, VI, VII, XI, XII, XIII ___ France
2. Oxford ___ United Kingdom
3. Cambridge ___ United Kingdom
4. Heidelberg ___ Germany
5. Munich___ Germany
6. Lyon I ___ France
6. Vienna ___ Austria
8. Montpellier I ___ France
9. Zurich ___ Switzerland
10. Gottingen ___ Germany
11. Edingburgh ___ United Kingdom (Scotland)
12. Lille (U.E.R.) II ___ France
13. Brussels ___ Belgium
14. Dijon ___ France
15. Lille (Faculte Libre de Medicine) ___ France
1. Paris (University MEdical and Academic Departments) University of Paris V, VI, VII, XI, XII, XIII ___ France
2. Oxford ___ United Kingdom
3. Cambridge ___ United Kingdom
4. Heidelberg ___ Germany
5. Munich___ Germany
6. Lyon I ___ France
6. Vienna ___ Austria
8. Montpellier I ___ France
9. Zurich ___ Switzerland
10. Gottingen ___ Germany
11. Edingburgh ___ United Kingdom (Scotland)
12. Lille (U.E.R.) II ___ France
13. Brussels ___ Belgium
14. Dijon ___ France
15. Lille (Faculte Libre de Medicine) ___ France
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Not an expert..and not quite sure where that list came from, but that seems suspect to me.... As an amateur medievalist, I know several of those schools are listed in order of the founding of those universities...
I would be very surprised if that was an accurate list--though I have no doubt those are all fine schools....
Best to All, JA
I would be very surprised if that was an accurate list--though I have no doubt those are all fine schools....
Best to All, JA
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remember..the Gourman report ranks non-US schools! So, US schools are not part of the world rankings, so they can't be in the top 10. Additionally, I would say most of the top 15 schools in the worlds are US medical schools. Why? Only a few other countries in the world require a bachelors degree prior to medical school entrance. Our schools get the most funded research anywhere in the world. Also, our hospitals where we do our clinial training have among the best equipment and standards in the world. Of course there are exception to the rule, but there can be no way to argue this. I have studied abroad in both England and India in college. Probably, the top schools willa lso include Cambridge, Oxford, Sorbonne, and the medical school in Tokyo. I have little doubt the rest would be US schools.
