Rankings

[tree_monkey]

Can anyone tell me whether you look at the US News Research or Primary Care (or both combined) rankings to determine where a school sits?

Also, how do people feel about Cleveland Clinic vs. Case vs. Northwestern vs. Dartmouth? Any opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
tree_monkey

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[ChocolateKiss]

Can anyone tell me whether you look at the US News Research or Primary Care (or both combined) rankings to determine where a school sits?

Also, how do people feel about Cleveland Clinic vs. Case vs. Northwestern vs. Dartmouth? Any opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
tree_monkey

The research rankings are generally used when determing the "status" of a school, but if you plan to go into primary care, you may want to look over the primary care rankings as well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Can anyone tell me whether you look at the US News Research or Primary Care (or both combined) rankings to determine where a school sits?

Also, how do people feel about Cleveland Clinic vs. Case vs. Northwestern vs. Dartmouth? Any opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
tree_monkey

When people talk of "top ten" etc. they are talking about research rankings. Primary care is important, I suppose, if you want to go into that aspect of the profession, but I personally see schools as having an inferiority complex when they start bragging about how high their school is ranked on the primary care list. Sort of like climbing to the very top of a much smaller mountain. Most of the objectively more prestigious schools tend not to be toward the top of the primary rankings list (presumably it is not a big focus for them), and for what it's worth it should be noted that a lot of DO schools are pretty high on that list.

 

[silas2642]

Can anyone tell me whether you look at the US News Research or Primary Care (or both combined) rankings to determine where a school sits?

Also, how do people feel about Cleveland Clinic vs. Case vs. Northwestern vs. Dartmouth? Any opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
tree_monkey

Instinct dictates that Northwestern is the best school that you listed here, followed by Case, Cleveland, and then Dartmouth. I personally don't think that Dartmouth is that amazing of the school considering its remote location. It has a nice hospital and relatively strong faculty, but you don't get the diverse clinical experience you would in an inner city. I don't know much about Cleveland except that it is a solid school. I know that Case is a great school that offers wonderful opportunities, and NW is NW. It's a fantastic school, arguably one of the best in the nation.

 

[OSUdoc08]

When people talk of "top ten" etc. they are talking about research rankings. Primary care is important, I suppose, if you want to go into that aspect of the profession, but I personally see schools as having an inferiority complex when they start bragging about how high their school is ranked on the primary care list. Sort of like climbing to the very top of a much smaller mountain. Most of the objectively more prestigious schools tend not to be toward the top of the primary rankings list (presumably it is not a big focus for them), and for what it's worth it should be noted that a lot of DO schools are pretty high on that list.

What people?

 

[Law2Doc]

What people?

People in the world of allo generally -- the ones who consider schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn as top schools (these don't break the top 10 in the primary care list). And certainly all the SDN folk who constantly post about top ten/top tier/top ranked schools -- they are talking about the research rankings. The allo world is driven by research dollars, and the prestige follows.

 

[DrRads101]

^

No offense but the "allo world" does not even ever look at US News and does not consider it a source for how good a medical school is.

 

[nutmegs]

I think all the things that go into those rankings mean nothing when it comes to making good doctors. and that's all I need to know

 

[wAxIe]

I think all the things that go into those rankings mean nothing when it comes to making good doctors. and that's all I need to know

agree.

 

[.edu-MD]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

^

No offense but the "allo world" does not even ever look at US News and does not consider it a source for how good a medical school is.

Perhaps not, but if you ask physicians what the best med schools are, places like harvard and hopkins will be listed, notwithstanding that they are not in the top ten on the primary care list. Thus the research rankings to some extent reflect (or affect) current perception.
As for being "good doctors" -- all schools produce their share and that wasn't really the point of this thread -- it inquired about rankings.

 

[OSUdoc08]

People in the world of allo generally -- the ones who consider schools like Harvard, JHU, Penn as top schools (these don't break the top 10 in the primary care list). And certainly all the SDN folk who constantly post about top ten/top tier/top ranked schools -- they are talking about the research rankings. The allo world is driven by research dollars, and the prestige follows.

Ah Ok.

So "people" is more of a specific than a general term.

Be careful of your generalizations then.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Perhaps not, but if you ask physicians what the best med schools are, places like harvard and hopkins will be listed, notwithstanding that they are not in the top ten on the primary care list. Thus the research rankings to some extent reflect (or affect) current perception.
As for being "good doctors" -- all schools produce their share and that wasn't really the point of this thread -- it inquired about rankings.

Which physicians?

How do they know which are the best?

What makes them qualified?

 

[Law2Doc]

Which physicians?

How do they know which are the best?

What makes them qualified?

I'm not sure I understand your line of questioning. You are welcome to consider any schools you like to be the best. Best is dependent on whatever set of criteria one chooses, but it cannot be denied that when folks in the pre-allo/allo boards on SDN talk about top ten, they are talking about schools at the top of the research rankings list, the Harvards and Hopkins of the world. I would (and did) suggest that schools like Harvard maintain their prestige not just because of the US News ranking says they are tops but also because physicians (including residency directors), prospective students, undergrad advisors, etc. (aka people) on some level believe that too. Folks would be up in arms if the US News published a rankings list that didn't at least seem credible, didn't have schools like Harvard on it. A top 10 list without schools like Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, would simply not pass muster. You can disagree with the methodology, or assert that some people who think places are best are not qualified, or assert that you can find physicians who think otherwise. But that really doesn't change the notion that if you polled every physician in the US as to the best school, you would get responses like "Harvard", "Hopkins" (and the rest of the top 10 on the research ranking) pretty frequently and statistically significantly.

 

[herrf]

I'm not sure I understand your line of questioning. You are welcome to consider any schools you like to be the best. Best is dependent on whatever set of criteria one chooses, but it cannot be denied that when folks in the pre-allo/allo boards on SDN talk about top ten, they are talking about schools at the top of the research rankings list, the Harvards and Hopkins of the world. I would (and did) suggest that schools like Harvard maintain their prestige not just because of the US News ranking says they are tops but also because physicians (including residency directors), prospective students, undergrad advisors, etc. (aka people) on some level believe that too. Folks would be up in arms if the US News published a rankings list that didn't at least seem credible, didn't have schools like Harvard on it. A top 10 list without schools like Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, would simply not pass muster. You can disagree with the methodology, or assert that some people who think places are best are not qualified, or assert that you can find physicians who think otherwise. But that really doesn't change the notion that if you polled every physician in the US as to the best school, you would get responses like "Harvard", "Hopkins" (and the rest of the top 10 on the research ranking) pretty frequently and statistically significantly.

Hmmm, while there is no doubt in my mind that places such as Harvard, UCSF, etc. are excellent schools and that they do have a larger amount of research funding because of the results they produce, there are other motives behind the "rankings" of the schools. I have been told by my pre med advisor that some the schools appear on the ranking according to when they pay a certain fee.

Yet, there is something to be said about the whole thread in general. The two most important things about a medical school are: 1. they are accredited (case in point Drew/Hanneman just lost their accredidation) and 2. that the individual is happy there. I have heard from friends of mine that the larger name schools tend to have more "gunners" (cut throat grade pirates arrrrrgh).
Yes I know that if one wishes to become a top MD/PHD at the NIH or something, name will carry more clout, but honestly, if you were in a car accident and were rushed to a hospital would you refuse the care of a University of Hawaii SOM graduate, simply because the school does not appear on any of these rankings (btw UH is one of the better schools for studying tropical medicine and its doctors serve at the hospital which is the primary trauma center of the South Pacific)

all in all Harvard MD's and Hawaii MD's are doing the same thing.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hmmm, while there is no doubt in my mind that places such as Harvard, UCSF, etc. are excellent schools and that they do have a larger amount of research funding because of the results they produce, there are other motives behind the "rankings" of the schools. I have been told by my pre med advisor that some the schools appear on the ranking according to when they pay a certain fee.

Yet, there is something to be said about the whole thread in general. The two most important things about a medical school are: 1. they are accredited (case in point Drew/Hanneman just lost their accredidation) and 2. that the individual is happy there. I have heard from friends of mine that the larger name schools tend to have more "gunners" (cut throat grade pirates arrrrrgh).
Yes I know that if one wishes to become a top MD/PHD at the NIH or something, name will carry more clout, but honestly, if you were in a car accident and were rushed to a hospital would you refuse the care of a University of Hawaii SOM graduate, simply because the school does not appear on any of these rankings (btw UH is one of the better schools for studying tropical medicine and its doctors serve at the hospital which is the primary trauma center of the South Pacific)

all in all Harvard MD's and Hawaii MD's are doing the same thing.

As I said before, all schools produce their share of solidly qualified physicians. The quality of medicine received at a given hospital reflects more upon residency programs and post medical studies than it does on previously attended med schools, as the hospital has already carefully screened and selected its staff from numerous applicants, and one doesn't actually learn the bulk of how to practice medicine until one starts training. A Hawaii graduate who did his residency at Mass General is usually going to be a better physician than a Harvard grad who did his residency at Joe Blow Suburban Nowhere Clinic. In medicine,you are always as good as the last place you've been. So if the hospital I was rushed to was reputable, I wouldn't care all that much as to where the person did his medical schooling. And particularly in emergency medicine, where rapidity of care is of the essence, very few people research the credentials of their physicians -- that's just silly.

That was not really the question of the thread - it asked which rankings list you looked at to see where a school sits, which I took to mean which ranking list is the one generally relied upon.

 

[.edu-MD]

.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'm not sure I understand your line of questioning. You are welcome to consider any schools you like to be the best. Best is dependent on whatever set of criteria one chooses, but it cannot be denied that when folks in the pre-allo/allo boards on SDN talk about top ten, they are talking about schools at the top of the research rankings list, the Harvards and Hopkins of the world. I would (and did) suggest that schools like Harvard maintain their prestige not just because of the US News ranking says they are tops but also because physicians (including residency directors), prospective students, undergrad advisors, etc. (aka people) on some level believe that too. Folks would be up in arms if the US News published a rankings list that didn't at least seem credible, didn't have schools like Harvard on it. A top 10 list without schools like Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, would simply not pass muster. You can disagree with the methodology, or assert that some people who think places are best are not qualified, or assert that you can find physicians who think otherwise. But that really doesn't change the notion that if you polled every physician in the US as to the best school, you would get responses like "Harvard", "Hopkins" (and the rest of the top 10 on the research ranking) pretty frequently and statistically significantly.

I'm not sure why the primary care rankings aren't considered here. What proves that they are not? It seems like you are making blanket assumptions here.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure why the primary care rankings aren't considered here. What proves that they are not? It seems like you are making blanket assumptions here.

Feel free to make a poll.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Feel free to make a poll.

There's no need.

You said that when people refer to the rankings, they are only referring to research.

This is not true for EVERYONE. You made no indication that you were only talking about the majority of the people. Instead, you made a blanket statement that the research rankings are in fact the only rankings referenced when anyone in the Pre-Allo/Allo forum discusses it.