IMGASMD

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profit sharing + defined benefit plans (>60K tax deferred contributions).

community hospitals and AMCs), 3% safe harbor 401K + profit sharing, opportunity for cash balance plan

I will plead ignorance. Can you explain these things to me? ELI5.
Thanks.
 
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DrZzZz

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New grad, looking for first attending job. having some difficulty comparing numbers as one is very pro-lifestyle and lots of contribution to retirement accounts and other is higher on the salary with less contributed towards tax-advantage accounts.

Job 1: 200K base, private practice, 2 yr partnership track, annual bonuses once partner usually add additional 100-120K to salary. 10-12 week vacation. ACT model, 3:1 usually. Excellent benefits: paid health, malpractice, fully funded 401K, profit sharing + defined benefit plans (>60K tax deferred contributions). Community hospital. CRNAs hospital employed. Calls start at 3 PM until following morning. case mix not challenging, primarily bread and butter and NORA. permitted to moonlight during time off.

Job 2: 360K base, private practice, possibility for partnership track (2 years + buy in?), annual bonuses after 1-2 years can add as much as additional 100-150K, 8 week vacation, mix of ACT 3-4:1 and own cases, multiple staffing locations (community hospitals and AMCs), good benefits: partially paid health, full malpractice, 3% safe harbor 401K + profit sharing, opportunity for cash balance plan, CME allowance. CRNAs employed by group. 5-6 calls a month. typical non-call day ends 2-3PM.

Both jobs are near where i want to be geographically. Thanks in advance!

Job 1 - 200k base prior to "earning" the opportunity to earn $320k as a partner covering 3:1 ACT? This might be the most underpaid job in the history of anesthesia.
 
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IMGASMD

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I will plead ignorance. Can you explain these things to me? ELI5.
Thanks.

I did a little homework. I am sorry for being lazy.
So job 1 offers a pension, job 2 offers a cash balance plan?

Are you going to stick around long enough to get them? I feel the traditional “job” are harder and harder to come by.

What are the amount of those that you could get? This question is obviously more important.
 
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abolt18

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Job 1 - 200k base prior to "earning" the opportunity to earn $320k as a partner covering 3:1 ACT? This might be the most underpaid job in the history of anesthesia.
Fo reals. Our crnas here make that much, working 40hrs a week, great benefits, time and a half for exceeding the 40hrs. Seriously.
 
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These threads are starting to annoy the hell out of me.
 
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ERRES2288

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What part of the country is this and how “lifestyle” oriented is group 1? Seems almost like part time money
 
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IMGASMD

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These threads are starting to annoy the hell out of me.

I have to admit, some of them are kind of “fun”. Just to see what kind of shtty jobs are out there. They do say misery loves company.

Also forces me to evaluate my current job more critically.
 
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IMGASMD

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Fo reals. Our crnas here make that much, working 40hrs a week, great benefits, time and a half for exceeding the 40hrs. Seriously.

You guys have a crna opening? I have a “friend” who is interested.

He has only two letters behind his name tho, MD. And he only require a 20 mins lunch. And you can leave him the duck alone in the room, he won’t bitch nor moan. Best thing, you don’t even have to address him as doctor.
 
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Guillemot

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The first job in particular sounds underpaid, but possibly isn't depending upon hours worked and the actual monetary value of all the benefits.

So really I don't know.
 

agammaglobulin

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New grad, looking for first attending job. having some difficulty comparing numbers as one is very pro-lifestyle and lots of contribution to retirement accounts and other is higher on the salary with less contributed towards tax-advantage accounts.

Job 1: 200K base, private practice, 2 yr partnership track, annual bonuses once partner usually add additional 100-120K to salary. 10-12 week vacation. ACT model, 3:1 usually. Excellent benefits: paid health, malpractice, fully funded 401K, profit sharing + defined benefit plans (>60K tax deferred contributions). Community hospital. CRNAs hospital employed. Calls start at 3 PM until following morning. case mix not challenging, primarily bread and butter and NORA. permitted to moonlight during time off.

Job 2: 360K base, private practice, possibility for partnership track (2 years + buy in?), annual bonuses after 1-2 years can add as much as additional 100-150K, 8 week vacation, mix of ACT 3-4:1 and own cases, multiple staffing locations (community hospitals and AMCs), good benefits: partially paid health, full malpractice, 3% safe harbor 401K + profit sharing, opportunity for cash balance plan, CME allowance. CRNAs employed by group. 5-6 calls a month. typical non-call day ends 2-3PM.

Both jobs are near where i want to be geographically. Thanks in advance!

If you are working with CRNAs all day, this difference between the two jobs could be huge.
 
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Who cares about working with crnas or not when you're getting paid like one? Just be a crna yourself with no liability and easy hours.
 
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MirrorTodd

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These threads are starting to annoy the hell out of me.
I disagree. These threads are an absolute necessity for all involved. Admittedly, I don't NEED to know about the job market just yet cause I'm military, but I get **** all for training on the finer points on job searching etc. Plus, if we don't talk openly about what's out there, for too many of us will keep getting screwed by predatory practices. What's annoying to you because you're already well established is a gold mine to us who have nothing.
 
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parcus

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Since we're on the topic of help me choose. I'm a CA2 on a J1 visa, should I wait more before looking for the job? If not, should I just call all the people in gasworks asking if they are able to sponsor a J-1 waiver and go from there or should I just submit my CV and apply to places first and ask questions later?
 

dabears505

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Man I know people in family practice doing better than job 1. Boy we all messed up big time choosing anesthesia.
 
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Velefunt

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New grad, looking for first attending job. having some difficulty comparing numbers as one is very pro-lifestyle and lots of contribution to retirement accounts and other is higher on the salary with less contributed towards tax-advantage accounts.

Job 1: 200K base, private practice, 2 yr partnership track, annual bonuses once partner usually add additional 100-120K to salary. 10-12 week vacation. ACT model, 3:1 usually. Excellent benefits: paid health, malpractice, fully funded 401K, profit sharing + defined benefit plans (>60K tax deferred contributions). Community hospital. CRNAs hospital employed. Calls start at 3 PM until following morning. case mix not challenging, primarily bread and butter and NORA. permitted to moonlight during time off.

Job 2: 360K base, private practice, possibility for partnership track (2 years + buy in?), annual bonuses after 1-2 years can add as much as additional 100-150K, 8 week vacation, mix of ACT 3-4:1 and own cases, multiple staffing locations (community hospitals and AMCs), good benefits: partially paid health, full malpractice, 3% safe harbor 401K + profit sharing, opportunity for cash balance plan, CME allowance. CRNAs employed by group. 5-6 calls a month. typical non-call day ends 2-3PM.

Both jobs are near where i want to be geographically. Thanks in advance!
Job 2, ACT model with group-employed CRNA's will make your daily life and career significantly better. Being employers y'all have a say, and you're much more of a team. That factor alone is sufficient to decide which job is better.
 
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Velefunt

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Since we're on the topic of help me choose. I'm a CA2 on a J1 visa, should I wait more before looking for the job? If not, should I just call all the people in gasworks asking if they are able to sponsor a J-1 waiver and go from there or should I just submit my CV and apply to places first and ask questions later?
I think you can filter by J-1 visa acceptable on Gaswork. It's never too early to put out feelers and let people know you're looking.
 

IMGASMD

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That the crnas work for the hospital not the anesthesiologist group should be a red flag on the first job.

Why do you think that? Just wondering. I post the question not long ago. It’s beneficial for the group, since you don’t have to deal with payroll, benefit and/or their politics (as much) was the answer I got.
I’ve only been with MD only group and MD employed crna group. Want to hear why you think that’s a red flag.
 

chocomorsel

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Why do you think that? Just wondering. I post the question not long ago. It’s beneficial for the group, since you don’t have to deal with payroll, benefit and/or their politics (as much) was the answer I got.
I’ve only been with MD only group and MD employed crna group. Want to hear why you think that’s a red flag.
You have absolutely no control over them. You can't discipline them for insubordination, you can't fire them, you can't hire them. They can act a fool and spit in your face but if admin wants to keep them, you better wear some protective face shields. Unless you have a really good relationship with admin and from what I have seen with anesthesiologists, they typically try to avoid dealing with admin unless it's about a stipend.
With them being your employees, the partners can vote what they can and can't do, how to discipline them and you can run a tighter ship.
 
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IMGASMD

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You have absolutely no control over them. You can't discipline them for insubordination, you can't fire them, you can't hire them. They can act a fool and spit in your face but if admin wants to keep them, you better wear some protective face shields. Unless you have a really good relationship with admin and from what I have seen with anesthesiologists, they typically try to avoid dealing with admin unless it's about a stipend.
With them being your employees, the partners can vote what they can and can't do, how to discipline them and you can run a tighter ship.

Their salaries can be about or more than the physicians in some practices. As we’ve seen above. Some of them, even employees, can demand 1.5-2x after 40 hours. Or we’ve been too nice to our employees. In a tight market, it somehow just becomes that way. Whoever is the highest bidder, they’ll just swarm over there. I also like some of them will work a overnight shift and jump to another practice as a pre-diem to pick up more work.

They do work for the money though, if they really want it. No quality of life when you work 80+ hrs/week. At least they get paid.
 

Arch Guillotti

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That the crnas work for the hospital not the anesthesiologist group should be a red flag on the first job.

Why do you think that? Just wondering. I post the question not long ago. It’s beneficial for the group, since you don’t have to deal with payroll, benefit and/or their politics (as much) was the answer I got.
I’ve only been with MD only group and MD employed crna group. Want to hear why you think that’s a red flag.

You have absolutely no control over them. You can't discipline them for insubordination, you can't fire them, you can't hire them. They can act a fool and spit in your face but if admin wants to keep them, you better wear some protective face shields. Unless you have a really good relationship with admin and from what I have seen with anesthesiologists, they typically try to avoid dealing with admin unless it's about a stipend.
With them being your employees, the partners can vote what they can and can't do, how to discipline them and you can run a tighter ship.
I agree that the relationship with admin is very important. If it isn't there then the CRNA's can become problematic if you don't employ them. The key is having stable administrators who understand that the OR is the cash cow of the hospital and it behooves them to keep it running as efficiently as possible and who don't believe in the fake promises of AMC's.

I have anesthesiologist friends in groups that employ their CRNA's that wish they didn't. Too many HR hassles and a huge financial liability not to mention that you are dependent upon a subsidy from the hospital to survive. Guess what, they deal with the exact same CRNA issues that I deal with. The key is having a good admin and working in a place where everyone gets along for the most part. Give and take.
 
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I agree that the relationship with admin is very important. If it isn't there then the CRNA's can become problematic if you don't employ them. The key is having stable administrators who understand that the OR is the cash cow of the hospital and it behooves them to keep it running as efficiently as possible and who don't believe in the fake promises of AMC's.

I have anesthesiologist friends in groups that employ their CRNA's that wish they didn't. Too many HR hassles and a huge financial liability not to mention that you are dependent upon a subsidy from the hospital to survive. Guess what, they deal with the exact same CRNA issues that I deal with. The key is having a good admin and working in a place where everyone gets along for the most part. Give and take.

MD only baby
 
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