Re-starting medical school

[hopefulmd1066]

I started MS1 in September, and ended up failing both blocks my first term (P/F US MD school). The dean is offering me a chance to take a voluntary leave of absence and restart in the fall, taking everything again. Since my other option risks an official dismissal from school, this is probably what I'll go with.

What else do I need to be aware of going forward when I do restart? Not fail the second time, duh. But how will this affect residencies etc? Is this a death sentence for my MD, or something that can be overcome?

I'd also like advice from anyone about how to deal with this emotionally/socially. This is obviously quite the bite of humble pie. Any tips for talking about this with people?

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[libertyyne]

Hey, I am sorry you are going through this.

A few suggestions/Ideas.
1. This is your journey, not your classmates . Only you should be evaluating yourself, if it takes an extra year so what?
2. You should speak to a mental health professional about it, or atleast to a trusted friend and share your feelings and what you are going through.
3. You should rethink about why you wanted to become a physician to begin with. Tap into the drive that got you into medical school in the first place.
4. Next year the people coming into the class are going to be all new so you get a new shot of making friends and a new social scene.
5. You should share as little or as much as you feel is appropriate with your future classmates.
6. You need to fix what went wrong. You need to see learning specialists at the school or you need to learn how to learn in medical school. I would suggest looking into anki.

Now for the residency piece.
1. It will probably make it difficult to near impossible to secure the ultra competitive residencies.
2. You should be able to match provided there are no other red flags.
3.You are going to have to work very hard to not fail anything else ever in medical school.
4. You are going to have to be realistic in terms of what you will be competitive for after this.

This happens all the time and sometimes life gets in the way of medical school you best move forward and keep working hard. It is not the failures that completely define us, rather how we move forward after hitting a road bump.

 

[deleted950463]

If you plan to speak to a mental health professional, do the following

1. Find someone who takes cash. Ideally someone you can visit under an alias.
2. Ideally someone without EME
3. Even if you cannot find someone to satisfying point 1 and 2 above, go to someone outside of your medical school’s health care network.

Trust me, this will prevent any potential issue with certain state medical boards later.

 

[operaman]

Obviously you take the deal. Anything beats dismissal.

Most important is identifying why you got in trouble. If you don’t fix the problem you’ll just repeat the process again. I had a friend in med school who spent 4 years in school and never made it past MS2. An extreme case but an example of how you have to actually fix the problem.

Residency is a long way off. Loooooong way. Obviously this will be a big red flag but not insurmountable. It will limit you but unsure how much. If you can only picture yourself being an orthopedic surgeon, you may want to reconsider your plans. If you’re still open to being most any kind of physician then it may be worth continuing.

But really you need to fix the problem. The start of M1 is a bit of a shock to everyone but it’s typically on the easier side of preclinical stuff and certainly easier and less stressful than step 1 and whatnot. A whole semester is a long time to have had trouble. You need to use the next six months to address the underlying issues that landed you in this mess.

It’s tough socially but in reality nobody is really paying attention to you or anyone else for that matter. You’ll blend into next years class like nothing ever happened. We had a couple folks who did that in our class. One guy is an attending now in private practice and the other never graduated. Wanna guess which one buckled down and fixed his problems?

 

[Chelsea FC]

Are competitive fields like ENT, ophthalmology and urology really impossible for OP, say he/she is one of those few who bounce back and get a strong Step score 240+ and has a faculty that would go to bat for them.

 

[libertyyne]

Are competitive fields like ENT, ophthalmology and urology really impossible for OP, say he/she is one of those few who bounce back and get a strong Step score 240+ and has a faculty that would go to bat for them.

Who knows?

 

[Chelsea FC]

Who knows?

Truth but most of the time when you see post like these, the responses are always forget X competitive subspecialty because its a pipe dream now. I know that this is a red flag but im not sure if its that insurmountable. Or have I been away from SDN for far too long and forget how they over the top everything is made to seem on here.

 

[NicMouse64]

Truth but most of the time when you see post like these, the responses are always forget X competitive subspecialty because its a pipe dream now. I know that this is a red flag but im not sure if its that insurmountable. Or have I been away from SDN for far too long and forget how they over the top everything is made to seem on here.

No one deserves anything in life. Competitive residencies are not realistic. This is fine, despite failing the student still has the opportunity to become a licensed physician in (at least) half of the remaining specialties. They will still get to treat patients and have a fulfilling career, even if it isn't doing orthopedic surgery and making 500k/year.

Life isn't a fairy tail, but for OP they can still do more than anyone who hasn't been accepted to medical school. Failing sucks, but provided you make up for shortcomings it is not the end of your career.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Truth but most of the time when you see post like these, the responses are always forget X competitive subspecialty because its a pipe dream now. I know that this is a red flag but im not sure if its that insurmountable. Or have I been away from SDN for far too long and forget how they over the top everything is made to seem on here.

Except it isn’t over the top when it comes to competitive specialties. We get 600 applications, interview 90, and choose 5. The ones we interview usually have USMD, step 1 250+, research, AOA. Rarely if ever do they have any red flags like img, Carib, failing a course (let alone a whole year). I’ve never seen one application make it to interview stage with a glaring academic issue, regardless of the letters.

As an example, we had a residency interviewee with incredible letters, 6 years of research in the US, 25+ published articles. Personable human on interview. However step 1 low 200s, maybe 205 I can’t recall. Had a good personal reason for it, too. The chair of ortho at a very well known academic hospital said in his letter, “this is the best student I have seen in forty years of doing orthopedics.” Guess what? Didn’t match. We have so many others to choose from who have perfect applications.

So yes, it is the definition of a pipe dream.


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[doc05]

I started MS1 in September, and ended up failing both blocks my first term (P/F US MD school). The dean is offering me a chance to take a voluntary leave of absence and restart in the fall, taking everything again. Since my other option risks an official dismissal from school, this is probably what I'll go with.

What else do I need to be aware of going forward when I do restart? Not fail the second time, duh. But how will this affect residencies etc? Is this a death sentence for my MD, or something that can be overcome?

I'd also like advice from anyone about how to deal with this emotionally/socially. This is obviously quite the bite of humble pie. Any tips for talking about this with people?

You should seriously reconsider your reasons and motivations for a career in medicine. This may be a great opportunity to cut your losses and get out with only one semester worth of debt.

 

[831929]

Are competitive fields like ENT, ophthalmology and urology really impossible for OP, say he/she is one of those few who bounce back and get a strong Step score 240+ and has a faculty that would go to bat for them.

Yeah I'd say it's about impossible. Maybe if OP got a 260 but you also have to be realistic. Struggling with class means you'll struggle with step studying. Also, there are many amazing fields in medicine that are not ultra competitive. If OP had trouble with difficulty and stress of medical school, ultracompeititve residency environment might also not be a good fit

 

[Chelsea FC]

Yeah i will defer to the people in the know about this.. Isnt ENT a competitive speciality that took a dip recently in applicants if OP is boning for something competitive maybe he can do that. But his goal should be passing classes.

 

[831929]

Yeah i will defer to the people in the know about this.. Isnt ENT a competitive speciality that took a dip recently in applicants if OP is boning for something competitive maybe he can do that. But his goal should be passing classes.

I think you are drifting away from OPs actual concerns. Talking about what specialty to apply is not something to focus on at this point. Also, ENT did not become less competitive. The average step score is still well into the 240s. High achieving students are still applying ENT and most programs still look for amazing applicants.

OP just focus on school and deciding whether this is what you want to do as your career. The cost and chances of passing should be considered. If you decide to continue, I would start next year off with all the support you can. Academic assistance at your school, attend all tutoring available, try out different study strategies. Also, cut out distractions. If you are a social media user or have any other distractors in life, start cutting them out. I would recommend deleting all social media and focus on meaningful relationships with classmates/family. Everyone needs a good support system.

 

[831929]

Truth but most of the time when you see post like these, the responses are always forget X competitive subspecialty because its a pipe dream now. I know that this is a red flag but im not sure if its that insurmountable. Or have I been away from SDN for far too long and forget how they over the top everything is made to seem on here.

I think you were the first one to bring up the topic of competitive specialties. Everyone was just giving general advice on whether or not to continue with the career choice.

It doesn't sound like OP is at all questioning a competitive specialty choice. Do you have a question different from OPs original post?

 

[Chelsea FC]

I think you were the first one to bring up the topic of competitive specialties. Everyone was just giving general advice on whether or not to continue with the career choice.

It doesn't sound like OP is at all questioning a competitive specialty choice. Do you have a question different from OPs original post?

The post above my initial one mention orthopedic surgeon which I assume he/she used as a example of OPs chances of a competitive specialty hence why I chimed in. If I have a question I would have started my own thread.

 

[deleted707454]

If you plan to speak to a mental health professional, do the following

1. Find someone who takes cash. Ideally someone you can visit under an alias.
2. Ideally someone without EME
3. Even if you cannot find someone to satisfying point 1 and 2 above, go to someone outside of your medical school’s health care network.

Trust me, this will prevent any potential issue with certain state medical boards later.

What is EME?

 

[curbsideconsult]

“this is the best student I have seen in forty years of doing orthopedics.”

Damn.

 

[deleted480308]

Except it isn’t over the top when it comes to competitive specialties. We get 600 applications, interview 90, and choose 5. The ones we interview usually have USMD, step 1 250+, research, AOA. Rarely if ever do they have any red flags like img, Carib, failing a course (let alone a whole year). I’ve never seen one application make it to interview stage with a glaring academic issue, regardless of the letters.

As an example, we had a residency interviewee with incredible letters, 6 years of research in the US, 25+ published articles. Personable human on interview. However step 1 low 200s, maybe 205 I can’t recall. Had a good personal reason for it, too. The chair of ortho at a very well known academic hospital said in his letter, “this is the best student I have seen in forty years of doing orthopedics.” Guess what? Didn’t match. We have so many others to choose from who have perfect applications.

So yes, it is the definition of a pipe dream.


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That hospital had no ortho program I assume

 

[deleted480308]

Just focus on passing. Ignore research and extra crap. Passing is the most important

 

[deleted950463]

What is EME?

Electronic medical record or EMR. It’s a typo

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

That hospital had no ortho program I assume

It did have a program, a big one. It was a red flag—if that person was so great why did they not snatch them up?


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

Damn.

Yeah. And he was a well known name. We gave the person a lot of consideration but ultimately decided against taking them.


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[bananafish94]

I'm merely an M3 so my advice can only go so far with respect to residency advice. That being said, I am extremely confident that if you bounce back with gusto you won't run into big difficulties matching, except for the ultra-competitive specialties. You seem to have a good attitude about this, which is a big positive. I would first try to identify why you failed these classes. Was it too much information? Test anxiety? Poor studying habits? You might know the answer already, or you might need to talk to your professors and people who have tons of experience with this kind of situation - they may be able to shed valuable light on it. When you do repeat the year, I would focus purely on academics. Don't worry about shadowing or research or anything like that. Just get back into the game and into the flow of things. As for the social aspect, I wouldn't worry! There are people in my class from the class above and they immediately fit right in and made friends in our class. Good luck!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Med school sucks and anyone could fail. If you’re a competitive specialty or bust type, you might not want to redo this BS and cut your losses. It really only gets tougher.

 

[meowfish6868]

Yeah i will defer to the people in the know about this.. Isnt ENT a competitive speciality that took a dip recently in applicants if OP is boning for something competitive maybe he can do that. But his goal should be passing classes.

There was a dip in applicants for the past two match cycles, but there are at least ~150 more applicants this year. Most of the people applying to ENT have excelled academically in med school, so OP would be at a huge disadvantage by having remediated MS1. I’m not saying it’s impossible for someone in this situation to match into ENT/whatever competitive specialty, but the odds are definitely stacked against them and it might be wiser to consider something less competitive.

 

[operaman]

Are competitive fields like ENT, ophthalmology and urology really impossible for OP, say he/she is one of those few who bounce back and get a strong Step score 240+ and has a faculty that would go to bat for them.

Yes. An application with a failed year would be DOA at every program in these fields.

The only hope would be the home program and kicking so much arse that they take him. That’s really it. Alternatively, spending a year or two doing high level research at a given program and getting them to like you.

Ironically, a killer step score would arguably make the red flag even worse because then you’re stuck wondering how someone who scored so high could fail. You start worrying about mental illness and substance abuse issues as those tend to be the culprit in cases of highly variable performance.

 

[operaman]

There was a dip in applicants for the past two match cycles, but there are at least ~150 more applicants this year. Most of the people applying to ENT have excelled academically in med school, so OP would be at a huge disadvantage by having remediated MS1. I’m not saying it’s impossible for someone in this situation to match into ENT/whatever competitive specialty, but the odds are definitely stacked against them and it might be wiser to consider something less competitive.

Yeah people should be careful reading too much into the tea leaves of applicant numbers when dealing with such small applicant pools to begin with. 150 people is basically one more applicant from every school class. One. And that equaled a 50% increase in applicants over the prior year nationally.

The numbers that are most interesting in the competitive fields are the stats for unmatched applicants. Matched applicants might average a step on pushing 250, but unmatched still average 240.

 

[nimbus]

The numbers that are most interesting in the competitive fields are the stats for unmatched applicants. Matched applicants might average a step on pushing 250, but unmatched still average 240.

That’s similar to how Harvard and Stanford reject 60-70% of applicants with 1600 SAT’s.

 

[mehc012]

That’s similar to how Harvard and Stanford reject 60-70% of applicants with 1600 SAT’s.

Is this in the old 1600 scale? Because otherwise, well...go figure.

 

[Psai]

Except it isn’t over the top when it comes to competitive specialties. We get 600 applications, interview 90, and choose 5. The ones we interview usually have USMD, step 1 250+, research, AOA. Rarely if ever do they have any red flags like img, Carib, failing a course (let alone a whole year). I’ve never seen one application make it to interview stage with a glaring academic issue, regardless of the letters.

As an example, we had a residency interviewee with incredible letters, 6 years of research in the US, 25+ published articles. Personable human on interview. However step 1 low 200s, maybe 205 I can’t recall. Had a good personal reason for it, too. The chair of ortho at a very well known academic hospital said in his letter, “this is the best student I have seen in forty years of doing orthopedics.” Guess what? Didn’t match. We have so many others to choose from who have perfect applications.

So yes, it is the definition of a pipe dream.


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Why didn't that chair take him then

 

[831929]

Why didn't that chair take him then

Maybe the student didn't want to go to their home program?

 

[deleted480308]

Maybe the student didn't want to go to their home program?

aaaahhh yes, the FMG with 6years unmatched who turns down ortho programs.....that sounds legit

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

aaaahhh yes, the FMG with 6years unmatched who turns down ortho programs.....that sounds legit

Wasn’t an fmg. Us grad.
Something was def weird but they had gone unmatched several times. Once that happens, the not matching itself becomes a red flag...so even if your application is great, you are less and less likely to match

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