Reaching out to the head of the department to shadow? Gunner?

[Osteoth]

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Hey guys,

So I want to shadow, but I'm trying to figure out which attending to ask.

My initial idea was to email the head of the department, solely for the reason that if he knows my name if nothing else that'll help me, but I'm a little trepidatious because I don't know how that would come across and I also don't want to piss him off.

Thanks!

 

[BronxBomber]

I did this recently and it worked out really well. I met with the head of a huge department at my school and she couldn't have been more kind and insightful. I've found that most if not all administrators are heavily invested in the success of the students.

Keep in mind that the heads of departments don't usually do a lot of clinical work, so they're much more likely to set you up to shadow someone else. However, they know all the best people for the job.

 

[Flamen04]

Grow a pair and ask. 99.9% of the time the answer will be yes.

 

[cbrons]

I don't know if you are a gunner, but shadowing once you are in med school is a huge waste of time. Unless it is for like 1/2 a day and you really have no idea at all what is involved in that specialty.

 

[Osteoth]

I don't know if you are a gunner, but shadowing once you are in med school is a huge waste of time. Unless it is for like 1/2 a day and you really have no idea at all what is involved in that specialty.

Yeah it's not really about learning, its more about priming the pump for when I (possibly) will be asking for letters of recommendation, and a letter from a department head I've been shadowing for 2+ years will mean more than one from a random attending I did my 4th year EM (the department in question) elective in.

 

[sloop]

Yeah it's not really about learning, its more about priming the pump for when I (possibly) will be asking for letters of recommendation, and a letter from a department head I've been shadowing for 2+ years will mean more than one from a random attending I did my 4th year EM (the department in question) elective in.

You probably shouldn't ask for a letter of recommendation from a person you've only done shadowing with. Honestly, that would kind of look bad. They won't be able to comment at all about your clinical skills and acumen. Most attendings also won't really grill you so hard with questions when you're there on a volunteer basis to shadow. The result is that the attending can't even really comment about your knowledge base, either. The best they can say in a letter is that you're enthusiastic, interested and easy to talk to. As good as these qualities are, you probably want more out of a letter of recommendation—even if it's from the chair.

A random attending who can speak positively about your clinical acumen and work ethic as a sub-I is almost certainly more valuable than a letter from the chair about how pleasant you were when you shadowed them.

 

[Flamen04]

Shadowing is definitely not useless when you get to medical school. At least in my school, you mainly get exposure to the big main specialties during third year and fourth year. Any interest in more competitive fields like surgical subspecialties, rad onc, derm, etc has to be gained through shadowing.

 

[Ismet]

Shadowing is definitely not useless when you get to medical school. At least in my school, you mainly get exposure to the big main specialties during third year and fourth year. Any interest in more competitive fields like surgical subspecialties, rad onc, derm, etc has to be gained through shadowing.

And to add to this, "shadowing" in medical school is often much different from shadowing as a pre-med. You're already accepted into medicine, and the person you are shadowing is much more likely to make it worth your while. It's not required at my school, but certainly encouraged by faculty (i.e. a cardiologist giving a lecture and offers his email address, saying "come follow us around for a day and see what we do.")

 

[threesparrows]

Go for it. Asking to shadow someone is a compliment and if that person is too busy, they'll just connect you to someone else, not judge you for asking.

 

[cbrons]

Yeah it's not really about learning, its more about priming the pump for when I (possibly) will be asking for letters of recommendation, and a letter from a department head I've been shadowing for 2+ years will mean more than one from a random attending I did my 4th year EM (the department in question) elective in.

Theyre not going to let a med student "shadow" them on a long term basis, that is clearly a waste of their time and your time. Shadowing is something pre meds do (and M3 students who are at schools that should lose accreditation for having observership rotations)

 

[cbrons]

And to add to this, "shadowing" in medical school is often much different from shadowing as a pre-med. You're already accepted into medicine, and the person you are shadowing is much more likely to make it worth your while. It's not required at my school, but certainly encouraged by faculty (i.e. a cardiologist giving a lecture and offers his email address, saying "come follow us around for a day and see what we do.")

Key word is "a day." This person thinks theyre going to shadow for 2 years just to get an LOR.

 

[Law2Doc]

Key word is "a day." This person thinks theyre going to shadow for 2 years just to get an LOR.

Meh. Totally disagree with you on this one. I've seen people essentially shadow for months in fields that aren't core rotations, end up with mentors in that field who worked the phones for them come application time. You need to do it for more than a day or it doesn't reap that kind of benefit.

 

[Law2Doc]

As for "gunner", you aren't a gunner if you just do something to bolster your career chances like this. You are only a gunner if you do something to undermine others to your own benefit. Like if cbrons here was telling others not to do this and then doing it himself. THAT would be a gunner. 🙂

 

[PL198]

Meh. Totally disagree with you on this one. I've seen people essentially shadow for months in fields that aren't core rotations, end up with mentors in that field who worked the phones for them come application time. You need to do it for more than a day or it doesn't reap that kind of benefit.

how do they have months to shadow during?

please tell me these kids don't spend their summer vacations shadowing....

 

[Flamen04]

how do they have months to shadow during?

please tell me these kids don't spend their summer vacations shadowing....

People have at the minimum the first 2 years to shadow.. 2 years * 12 monthss each year = 24 MONTHS

 

[Law2Doc]

how do they have months to shadow during?

please tell me these kids don't spend their summer vacations shadowing....

You don't shadow daily. You go for a couple of hours every week.

 

[Osteoth]

Yeah I was thinking about twice a month during pre-clinicals, and probably during the summer too if I stay and do research here.

 

[cbrons]

you are so full of misinformation, how did u eat anything today

that isn't very positive.

To me shadowing means you just follow the doctor around and watch them do everything but don't actually do any H&Ps, procedures, etc. Yeah I think doing that for 2 years would be a waste of time.

 

[Law2Doc]

that isn't very positive.

To me shadowing means you just follow the doctor around and watch them do everything but don't actually do any H&Ps, procedures, etc. Yeah I think doing that for 2 years would be a waste of time.

Um in med school you would absolutely be allowed to take histories and participate in procedures so it's really not the same as a premed experience. Shadowing is probably not really what it should be called, but "dropping by and helping out with stuff when you have some down time", is a bit awkward as a term.

 

[sunealoneal]

I agree that strictly shadowing long term seems like a poor investment of time. But some sort of longer term relationship that begins with shadowing is certainly a great idea. I started systems during my 2nd semester, so towards the end of that semester I shadowed a couple times before that transitioned to me doing some research with them. During the many meetings I had with them to develop that research, I've asked many questions about relevant pathologies, about different stages of their training (when did you become comfortable with imaging? when did you get comfortable with staging? etc).

These kinds of long-term relationships can be really great. So yes to answer your question, go ahead and do that. Maybe wait to finish your first semester depending on your curriculum, but cultivate those relationships sooner rather than later.

 

[pd1112]

Agree that asking to "shadow" is the easiest way to start out, but if you're still just "shadowing" after the first or second day with him/her then you're wasting your time - either you're not showing enough interest/enthusiasm/assertiveness, or he/she doesn't particularly enjoy having you around, or both.

And this isn't gunning. In the preclinical years, you're never gunning if you: do what you want to do, don't think about what other students are doing, and don't lie about what you think/do when other students ask. The less motivated, less enthusiastic, lazier students call it gunning when they see peers making use of the endless learning opportunities at medical centers. They're wrong and probably just jealous of the ambition.