Reading this forum scares me....

[shawnsco]

I'm just starting my pre-pharm pre reqs. I currently have only 2 options of schools. I have always been a great student, but I have a family, I don't have much time for ECs, I plan on trying to fit something in somewhere but I'm trying to take this first semester easy (haven't been in school in 8 years) I'm taking 15 credits this semester. I've been reading through these posts and it just scares me. I can't apply to 10 schools, I may possibly move before I even get to the application process. The people who say just say good bye to my family until I'm done... I can't do that with a 3 year old.
I'm pretty sure staying at home with a child isn't a good thing to put on my application. I know myself and I know with out a doubt I can do the work and get the grades and the scores I need. It's just from what I can tell the schools aren't all about GPAs and scores. Is there anyone else who has gotten in with 0 ECs or a previous tech job. Any advice would be great I have tons of credits I still have to do and I know I'm way off from actually applying I just want to give myself every chance I can to make myself a better candidate without destroying my family.

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[docss26]

I'm just starting my pre-pharm pre reqs. I currently have only 2 options of schools. I have always been a great student, but I have a family, I don't have much time for ECs, I plan on trying to fit something in somewhere but I'm trying to take this first semester easy (haven't been in school in 8 years) I'm taking 15 credits this semester. I've been reading through these posts and it just scares me. I can't apply to 10 schools, I may possibly move before I even get to the application process. The people who say just say good bye to my family until I'm done... I can't do that with a 3 year old.
I'm pretty sure staying at home with a child isn't a good thing to put on my application. I know myself and I know with out a doubt I can do the work and get the grades and the scores I need. It's just from what I can tell the schools aren't all about GPAs and scores. Is there anyone else who has gotten in with 0 ECs or a previous tech job. Any advice would be great I have tons of credits I still have to do and I know I'm way off from actually applying I just want to give myself every chance I can to make myself a better candidate without destroying my family.

Considering you have a lot of time before you apply why not try to find a tech position part time? Or even volunteer a few hours a week for the duration of your pre-requisites? There are people on here with families that still have time to do community work, which are great things to add to a list of ECs.

 

[rxlea]

Let me point out something to you: the people that tell you to say goodbye to your family probably either don't have a family or waited to have one and then looked back and said, "Oh, I could never have done that." With the former, think about where it is coming from. If they are young, why even take the advice of some adolescent without life experience?

People have gone through medical and pharmacy school with a family. Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. There are people I know that are doing it RIGHT NOW. You do NOT have to "say goodbye" to your family. What about doing EC's where your child can go? That is better than doing nothing at all, isn't it? I am certain there are organizations that focus on helping children and families. You can start anywhere, not just in pharmacy.

You can work minimally at a pharmacy to start- as long as you know what the field of pharmacy is all about. Adcoms want to know that you are knowledgeable and know what you are getting into. Do you have support from your spouse/partner or other family members? Their support while you work part-time (or even a few hours a week) somewhere will be invaluable. You can do supplemental work- lots of places require it. It means they cannot hire someone full-time but require someone to come in when they are understaffed or during very busy times (I know at the hospital I work at, we really need it right now).

 

[UES Girl]

Let me point out something to you: the people that tell you to say goodbye to your family probably either don't have a family or waited to have one and then looked back and said, "Oh, I could never have done that." With the former, think about where it is coming from. If they are young, why even take the advice of some adolescent without life experience?

People have gone through medical and pharmacy school with a family. Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. There are people I know that are doing it RIGHT NOW. You do NOT have to "say goodbye" to your family. What about doing EC's where your child can go? That is better than doing nothing at all, isn't it? I am certain there are organizations that focus on helping children and families. You can start anywhere, not just in pharmacy.

You can work minimally at a pharmacy to start- as long as you know what the field of pharmacy is all about. Adcoms want to know that you are knowledgeable and know what you are getting into. Do you have support from your spouse/partner or other family members? Their support while you work part-time (or even a few hours a week) somewhere will be invaluable. You can do supplemental work- lots of places require it. It means they cannot hire someone full-time but require someone to come in when they are understaffed or during very busy times (I know at the hospital I work at, we really need it right now).

I don't think people are saying that the OP will have to say goodbye to her family. What most people are saying and what I have advised against in the past - is STARTING a family and having children while in school. Clearly in OP's case, it's kind of a little too late to worry about it.

It's one thing to be optimistic and another thing is to be realistic and to be prepared for the challenges. Pharmacy school is challenging and requires time. Suppose hypothetically OP has to study 30 hours each week on top of going to class to pass her classes - that's 30 hours taken away from the time she could have spent away and dedicated to her child and that child's parenting.

However, having said that, OP don't worry and please don't be scared. It's only natural to feel this anxious given a tremendous amount of responsibility on your hands. However, once you get it - there is help available. Depending on school, you may have additional financial acid available to account for your child's expenses, a day care center for your child, probably other services. Additionally, it's in the school's best interest to help you suceed and not flunk out, so they will maximize their efforts to provide you with as many available help resourses as possible.

Like the rxlea mentioned, it is possible to get through school with a family and people are doing it probably as I'm typing up this message right now.

 

[MrMeowphers]

Consider Creighton's distance learning pharmacy program. It'll allow you the benefits of a good education with the ability to take care of your family (even if you move).

To date, that is the only licensed pharm. program

Good luck to you.

And tell all those people who tell you that it's too late to go back to school to shut their mouth. It's never too late to go back, heck a majority of my friends back in graduate school had families and children when trying to crank out powerhouse results 80 hours a week. Where there is a will, there is definitely a way.

 

[thisaznboi88]

Anything is possible if you believe and are willing to work hard for it. I seen people in there 40 at my UC taking 16 units a semester while working part time and they have a family.

 

[Passion4Sci]

You don't need to say goodbye to your family but do realize that if you're not willing to relocate your family or live away from them for a couple of years, you'll be severely limited in your options for schools.

Graduate school of any variety is often very sacrifice-inducing. That said, it's certainly not impossible to do it with a family, but having a very strong support system and a very flexible family will help tremendously. If you're pigeonholed into one or two schools due to family constraints, be they monetary or geographical or what have you, you'll be having a much harder time than someone without.

How much is your family willing to sacrifice for you in order for you to achieve your goal, and how much are you willing to sacrifice in kind? Important questions, in my opinion.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Anything is possible if you believe and are willing to work hard for it. I seen people in there 40 at my UC taking 16 units a semester while working part time and they have a family.

There are limitations here.

No matter how much I believe and no matter how hard I'd be willing to work for it, I'll never hit a golf ball (or a woman!) like Tiger Woods does.

This false sense of "being able to do it"-ism that people have adopted is so naive it makes me crazy.

No, not everyone can do everything in spite of hard work and dedication, and trying to convince someone of that is just wrong.

 

[PharmLisa]

There are limitations here.

No matter how much I believe and no matter how hard I'd be willing to work for it, I'll never hit a golf ball (or a woman!) like Tiger Woods does.

This false sense of "being able to do it"-ism that people have adopted is so naive it makes me crazy.

No, not everyone can do everything in spite of hard work and dedication, and trying to convince someone of that is just wrong.

So don't even try, right? WRONG!!!

Shawnsko, You will never achieve anything in life if you allow the "debbie downer's" here and elsewhere to discourage you. Some might see having a family as a "limitation" but, it can be seen and presented as an advantage. Pharmacists need to posses an empathy and focus outside oneself - something that most mothers posess quite naturally. These are traits that many don't develop in themselves until they have children. I've read first hand accounts from people who were rejected by thier adcom because they did not show enough empathy and compassion for others.

Only you know what you can balance and achieve right now. You seem to have an accurate grasp of what will be required of you, and your committment to your family is obvious in your post. You'll find the right balance for you.

Look in this forum and elsewhere for the advice and information you need to put together the pieces for a spectacular application package for your self. There is a formula for success and you can find lots of useful tips here. You will also hear lots of opinions along the way. Not all will be useful to you. Weed out the riff raff. You are right in recognizing that grades are not the only piece to the puzzle. You'll definitely want to find a way to get some volunteer and pharmacy exposure.

Might you fail? Sure. But, we all might (including Passion4sci.) (Hmm... That makes me wonder... Could Tiger Woods get into Pharmacy School?) No individual is a perfect applicant. No matter what ultimately happens, you'll be on the path toward something better for you and your family.

I wish you good luck and success. I'm a mother of three on this path after earning my first degree 15 years ago. If I can do it, so can you!!
Lisa

 

[Duc888]

Nobody answered the key question the OP was asking, being whether anyone has gotten into a PharmD program without community service or other volunteer activities.

Lets say she has a 4.0 in her pre reqs and a 95 or above on her PCAT composite...does she need community service?

Why should she give up even a minute of her time with her little son and husband in order to help strangers?

I won't even get into the ridiculous idea that we are expected to work for free, which should be a personal, private choice. I mean, community service is a punshment for some crimes, why should it have to be done by pharm school applicants in a capitalist society, paying for school, and attempting to get paid jobs? You can bet the community work the school does is for PR and other benefits they receive from it, and not out of the goodness of the trustees' hearts.

 

[rxlea]

Nobody answered the key question the OP was asking, being whether anyone has gotten into a PharmD program without community service or other volunteer activities.

Lets say she has a 4.0 in her pre reqs and a 95 or above on her PCAT composite...does she need community service?

Why should she give up even a minute of her time with her little son and husband in order to help strangers?

I won't even get into the ridiculous idea that we are expected to work for free, which should be a personal, private choice. I mean, community service is a punshment for some crimes, why should it have to be done by pharm school applicants in a capitalist society, paying for school, and attempting to get paid jobs? You can bet the community work the school does is for PR and other benefits they receive from it, and not out of the goodness of the trustees' hearts.

I am sorry, but what you are saying is ridiculous. Community service shows that you give a crap about someone other than yourself. MILLIONAIRES donate their TIME AND MONEY to help people in need. In fact, many people find community service VERY rewarding. I work at a hospital that has hundreds of volunteers- many are retired and many are high school students wanting to fill their empty summers with something interesting and enjoyable. We save hundreds of thousands of dollars every year because of the positions our volunteers fill. Isn't that "common business sense"? If people only gave a **** about themselves, there wouldn't be volunteers out there working for non-profits to feed and clothe the homeless. There wouldn't be nurses and doctors volunteering their time to help people at free medical clinics. Organizations like Doctors Without Borders and the Peace Corps wouldn't exist. What about the Red Cross that helps people in natural disasters and during war? Volunteering is something that is essential to our society- capitalist or not. By doing volunteer work, it shows that we as pharmacists are committed to helping our society because we actually give a damn about something other than the $120,000 right out of school (which ISN'T guaranteed BTW). This is why I advise people to do community service that is meaningful to them- not just something that looks good on an application. You might actually find something special in volunteering for a cause you are passionate about. I think it is a GREAT requirement for ANYONE entering into a professional field. Oftentimes, people go through school without even holding a real job until they are 30 years old. I want to be confident in knowing that my doctor or pharmacist knows something about working with people. After all, we DO see patients and patients have diverse backgrounds. You can't learn about people in a frickin' book. Your required sociology or psychology class isn't going to teach you how to relate to someone or how to be compassionate despite differences.

As for giving up time- I agree with Passion4sci. There are ALWAYS sacrifices. Time would be one of them and this is why family support is important. Although this is a choice for the OP, there are obviously other people involved that must be considered. These people that think parents couldn't EVER possibly be away from their children for one minute are a little overboard, but I guess it is the new generation. Coddle your children 24/7 and tell them they are God's gift to the world and that no matter what, they can do ANYTHING they want to do.

edit: BTW this doesn't mean that adcoms shouldn't take into consideration what the applicant is doing. In the case of the OP, yeah maybe volunteering a bunch of hours is not feasible. But, this is certainly something that can be discussed in supplemental essays. It could even be briefly mentioned in a personal statement: about how much time is devoted to being there and providing for family. Adcoms are not heartless, you know. That is why they consider the WHOLE package. It goes into their little formula of who gets accepted and who doesn't. We shouldn't even attempt to figure it out.

 

[UES Girl]

Nobody answered the key question the OP was asking, being whether anyone has gotten into a PharmD program without community service or other volunteer activities.

Lets say she has a 4.0 in her pre reqs and a 95 or above on her PCAT composite...does she need community service?

Why should she give up even a minute of her time with her little son and husband in order to help strangers?

I won't even get into the ridiculous idea that we are expected to work for free, which should be a personal, private choice. I mean, community service is a punshment for some crimes, why should it have to be done by pharm school applicants in a capitalist society, paying for school, and attempting to get paid jobs? You can bet the community work the school does is for PR and other benefits they receive from it, and not out of the goodness of the trustees' hearts.

Well, as someone with hundreds of volunteer hours, I can barely read posts like this because I get so disturbed by the self-centered : "why should I" mentality.

To answer your question: perhaps people do community work because because it's good and makes people feel good ? Because it's good to help the community you live in, to get involved with people, to make an impact.


I didn't answer the OP's question because my knowledge is limited and I don't know. I don't want to speculate because I am not an adcom.

 

[Duc888]

I know what you guys are saying, but the bottom line is that it should be a personal and private choice, and has nothing to do with ability to work with people if someone has already done that in a paid job.

I guess you can make a case that it can be part of a litmus test for pharm schools to see how much you care about helping people but then even those for whom it is not the activity of choice will just pay it lip service and be done with it.

I'm not saying, "why should I?", I'm saying it should be nobody's business but mine. Even those who help others do so for different reasons, many for selfish ones such as "it makes me feel good to help" and "god will like me better"

 

[crazybob]

I know what you guys are saying, but the bottom line is that it should be a personal and private choice, and has nothing to do with ability to work with people if someone has already done that in a paid job.

It usually is.

I guess you can make a case that it can be part of a litmus test for pharm schools to see how much you care about helping people but then even those for whom it is not the activity of choice will just pay it lip service and be done with it.

What? That would be the wrong reason to go into pharmacy in the first place.

I'm not saying, "why should I?", I'm saying it should be nobody's business but mine. Even those who help others do so for different reasons, many for selfish ones such as "it makes me feel good to help" and "god will like me better"

How is it selfish to think that you feel better by helping those who need it the most while giving up time you could spend on a Saturday sleeping in or watching TV?

 

[shawnsco]

First thank you all for all of the replies. I am going to talk to a couple of local pharmacies next week and see if I can just volunteer there a few hours a week. I also want to clarify then reason I'm not able to move is my husband is in the Army and we move enough on our own. We have talked about it and I will stay back for a year if we have to move because of his job. he supports me fully in my choice to go to school full time for years on end. In most cases I'm willing to move to the city during the week and just see him on weekends. He deploys every other year so I am kind of selfish when it comes to spending time with him.
Throughout my life I have volunteered in various places, hospitals, I worked as an EMT for FREE for a full summer, and I was a medic at summer camp. I love giving back to my community and I do think that it is important. It's just this is what I want to do, and what I've wanted to do since I was 12 and shadowed a family friend who was a Pharmacist. That you all for the replies again...

 

[docss26]

First thank you all for all of the replies. I am going to talk to a couple of local pharmacies next week and see if I can just volunteer there a few hours a week. I also want to clarify then reason I'm not able to move is my husband is in the Army and we move enough on our own. We have talked about it and I will stay back for a year if we have to move because of his job. he supports me fully in my choice to go to school full time for years on end. In most cases I'm willing to move to the city during the week and just see him on weekends. He deploys every other year so I am kind of selfish when it comes to spending time with him.
Throughout my life I have volunteered in various places, hospitals, I worked as an EMT for FREE for a full summer, and I was a medic at summer camp. I love giving back to my community and I do think that it is important. It's just this is what I want to do, and what I've wanted to do since I was 12 and shadowed a family friend who was a Pharmacist. That you all for the replies again...

Those are some excellent ECs and I think it will suffice. There a lot of candidate getting into pharmacy school with only excellent grades and no ECs or pharmacy experience.

 

[PonderingChoice]

It's just this is what I want to do, and what I've wanted to do since I was 12 and shadowed a family friend who was a Pharmacist. That you all for the replies again...

So what happened then?

Also, you say you haven't been in school for 8 years. If you mean high school, then OK, this decision is financially sound. If you mean college, and you have some sort of Bachelor's, are you sure this makes financial sense? If it's the latter, you're like 30. Add in a couple years for pre-reqs, and then you're 32. If you have a degree in something like English, and you're going to be 32 after pre-reqs, your Pharm.D. may still make financial sense. If you have a degree in something better paying, you might be breaking even... once you hit 65, and that assumes pharmacist wages stay as favorable as they are currently. I don't buy into all the doom and gloom regarding pharmacy, but assuming SOME depreciation in a pharmacist's value isn't crazy. Assume stagnant wages for a few years, if nothing else.

This is my standard cautionary warning to older students: look at your projected long term earnings (after taxes, with raises), and compare that to the costs of pharmacy school. After all, pharmacists make roughly 70K after taxes, which is significantly less than 100K before taxes, and pharmacy school could easily cost you 120K+ (or more!) Not to mention your approximately 6 years of lost earnings.

Of course, if you know you'll love pharmacy, knock yourself out. But unless you've got significant pharmacy experience, can't really be sure, now can ya?

 

[rxlea]

The ageism really is rampant on this forum. Very depressing. And who says it has to be all about the money anyway? Geez...

 

[PonderingChoice]

The ageism really is rampant on this forum. Very depressing. And who says it has to be all about the money anyway? Geez...

Yeah, because it's ageist to say that it may not make financial sense to pursue a degree once you're a certain age. Whether you like it or not, you only have so many years you can work in you, so age matters when calculating life time earnings. Besides, I will always tell readers to ignore my posts if they love pharmacy. But not everyone who shows up here, regardless of age, is doing it because they suddenly realized how much they love the practice of pharmacy. Some people are doing it for the money, and if they're doing it for the money, it damn well better make financial sense to do so. It just kills me to see people, with good degrees and experience, looking into pharmacy thinking it's going to make them more money. However, if being a pharmacist will make them happier, then they should go for it. BUT the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[crazybob]

Yeah, because it's ageist to say that it may not make financial sense to pursue a degree once you're a certain age. Whether you like it or not, you only have so many years you can work in you, so age matters when calculating life time earnings.

That depends on when a person decides to retire.

Besides, I will always tell readers to ignore my posts if they love pharmacy. But not everyone who shows up here, regardless of age, is doing it because they suddenly realized how much they love the practice of pharmacy.

Ignoring isn't always easy to do. It's like being a little loud on a subway or a bus and telling people around you to ignore you if they think you're being loud by reading something to yourself or singing a song you're listening to. It's hard to ignore it when it's right there.

 

[diastole]

I'm just starting my pre-pharm pre reqs. I currently have only 2 options of schools. I have always been a great student, but I have a family, I don't have much time for ECs, I plan on trying to fit something in somewhere but I'm trying to take this first semester easy (haven't been in school in 8 years) I'm taking 15 credits this semester. I've been reading through these posts and it just scares me. I can't apply to 10 schools, I may possibly move before I even get to the application process. The people who say just say good bye to my family until I'm done... I can't do that with a 3 year old.
I'm pretty sure staying at home with a child isn't a good thing to put on my application. I know myself and I know with out a doubt I can do the work and get the grades and the scores I need. It's just from what I can tell the schools aren't all about GPAs and scores. Is there anyone else who has gotten in with 0 ECs or a previous tech job. Any advice would be great I have tons of credits I still have to do and I know I'm way off from actually applying I just want to give myself every chance I can to make myself a better candidate without destroying my family.

You sound a bit like me a few years ago. I used to read this forum and get knots in my stomach. I wanted to go into pharmacy but was afraid to make the leap. I was a stay at home mom with a young child and I had a degree but I had five Fs in my past and no pharmacy experience. I read about people with awesome GPAs and PCATs while I knew that I had tons of baggage. I was so afraid of failure that I sat out an extra semester because I was too scared to commit. Well, I finally went back to school when I my daughter was three and I attended nights and weekends so I could watch her in the day. When she finally entered kindergarten, I went to school full time and finished up my prereqs. At that point, I started volunteering in a pharmacy and in the same year I got accepted to pharmacy school. In my case, that meant uprooting my family and moving to a new state. It has involved considerable sacrifice but it is working out.

One of the community colleges near me offered super cheap child care but I didn't find out about it in time to really take advantage of it. If a school near you offers child care, it will make your schooling much quicker.

You can do this if you and your family are willing to make sacrifices. In my case, the forums stopped scaring me once I made the choice to go all in and the good grades started coming in. Good luck to you.

 

[PonderingChoice]

That depends on when a person decides to retire.

Obviously, but the standard age is 65, and if you have to work an extra few years just to come out ahead, that's an investment of dubious worth.

Ignoring isn't always easy to do. It's like being a little loud on a subway or a bus and telling people around you to ignore you if they think you're being loud by reading something to yourself or singing a song you're listening to. It's hard to ignore it when it's right there.

Fortunately, on most forums there's an "ignore" setting. Also, being "forced" to scroll down is significantly easier than ignoring someone who's talking loudly on the bus. Besides, who are my posts going to bother? What's wrong with hearing, "You know, under X conditions, this doesn't make any financial sense." Ignoring your financial situation is for children, or college students who're being funded by their folks.

 

[barbnrae]

I'm a mom of 5 and if I can do this, so can you. I currently go to Howard Payne Univ. in Brownwood and the closest Pharm school is in Abilene (an hour and a half away)...my other option UT is in Austin and I prefer it but it's over 2 1/2 away. I have cold sweats about things like relocating my children and childcare more than interviews and PCAT scores. My advice to you is to learn about your schools in advance and do lots of research. Like I learned Texas Tech requires Saturday trips to Lubbock. That would be REALLY hard on my family. UT does not and that might be a better option. If I can keep a 4.0 with 5 kids, anything is possible. Make your family help out too That is another key to making it work. It also helps me to look ahead at the fact that my kids will grow and be more mature and I go ahead in my pharmacy journey...it will be easier for them to handle things when the going gets tough for me. Just keep your grades top notch and u should be fine. Study hard for your pcat. Grades and scores will speak volumes over being a previous tech You don't have to destroy your family. I study my hardest when my kids are in bed or at school. With kids you have to make some sacrifices and you will be more wiped out at the end of the day but when you are a Pharmacist...it will all be worth it

 

[aboveliquidice]

I've seen it done... I have also seen it go terribly wrong. Know thy self. No one here understands the depth of you. If you feel it can be done - by all means do so. If you have that nagging feeling it's a disaster on the horizon - abandon all pursuit.

 

[medicalCPA]

When I first applied for pharmacy school, I had never had a tech job, and my EC's were almost zero. And I got in. However, I have to tell you, I had a 4.0 GPA with a 98 PCAT.

I also took crazy hours in college (~25 credit hours/semester, on top of a 20hr/week job), and did not have time to volunteer. But along the way, I heard about the work done by UNICEF and Heifer International, and I began supporting them. When it got to interview time, I brought this up in a "I wasn't able to give my time in college, so I did the next best thing: I gave my money" manner. It must have worked, because every school I interviewed at accepted me. On another round of interviews, one of my interviewers knew about Heifer International because he also supported them. (I still support them, by the way).

I think what I would advise you would be, become the very best applicant you can be, in spite of the limitations you face. And when you interview, show the admissions committee that you indeed have limitations/constraints, but that you have tried, in whatever fashion, to overcome them. They won't know unless you show them, but I'm sure they would appreciate the honesty. Just don't use it as a crutch.


EDIT: In case you're wondering, I ended up choosing to go to graduate school, not pharmacy school.