please if anyone has true stories of successfully transferring from one residency to another please post especially if stayed in the same field. Was it impossible?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Real stories of successful residency transfers
- Thread starter 004900
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2016
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 78
I know of one resident who transferred programs to be close to a parent diagnosed with cancer. The program had posted an opening in their PGY year and the PD supported the application because they were upfront about why - and it was a good reason.
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2017
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 31
I know a lot. I know people that did it to be closer to home. I know others that switched specialties altogether. I know those that quit, scrambled into other spots. I know others that took research years and applied to their new desired specialty. It is not as rare as you think. My hospital had a few anesthesia people leave recently in addition to radiology.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,793
- Reaction score
- 9,019
I know of another who did the same. He did his intern year, then had an ailing relative so moved to a different program... where he started over again as an intern.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2013
- Messages
- 908
- Reaction score
- 808
What else do you want to know? Yes it happens, yes you need to work directly with your program. You will not find some random stranger to just swap with you 99.9% of the time.
If you have a good reason, you have a chance. If you just dont like your program, less likely.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Messages
- 3,773
- Reaction score
- 3,746
I have yet to hear of an actual "residency swap" with two people - much, MUCH more typically people just move into an open position. Way too many variables to swap two people, especially after PGY-1 year as people have alluded
Know as many factors that determine a successful transfer from real examples and experiences.
Compelling reason, support from PD, open spots, transferability of credits if same specialty etc.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,368
- Reaction score
- 17,873
Why not just ask that in the first place. This makes it much easier to answer your question.
1. Compelling reason - you either have one or not. Nobody can predict what PD will consider your particular reason compelling.
2. PD Support - You need it. If you don't, this will never happen. You might get a new PGY1 spot in the Match with a PD letter that says "Dr 004900 will probably not actively kill his/her patients", but that's your only hope.
3. Open spots - Cold call. There's no real list. There are some specialties that will keep a sort of list somewhere. Residencyswap seems to be more or less useless.
4. Transfer of credits - Completely up to the accepting PD. Most will have some sort of a probationary period before deciding where you actually belong. A program that just slots you in based on where you were beforehand is probably one you don't want to be in.
I've seen all of the following situations
- PGY3 transferring for family medical issues. Finished 2y of IM at BIDMC, got teaching awards from the med school, had several pubs during those 2 years, mom got sick, wanted to come home. He spent 3 months as a PGY1/2 (did a month each of ICU and wards as the intern and then a month as the ICU resident. Solid reviews, allowed to complete PGY3 and no delay.
- PGY3 transferring for "personal reasons". Started on wards as senior. Would go home mid-call (back in the 30h call days) and not answer pages from the intern or nursing. Got bumped back to intern status halfway through the year. Contract not renewed. Got a new spot 3000 miles away. No idea what happened after that.
- PMR resident decided he wanted to go back to IM (did prelim IM) after first PMR year. Spent 6 months as an intern before being promoted. Wound up doing a total of 4.5 years of training. Currently works for NASA.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Messages
- 3,773
- Reaction score
- 3,746
I can share some stories from my residency program (Anesthesiology) from the past 5-8ish years:
- PGY-2 interested in Orthopedics (always was, but applied Anes as backup): transferred and repeated PGY-1 as surgery prelim then advanced into open Ortho PGY-2, now happy. I wouldn't recommend this track, it was very risky as he didn't have any options after that repeated PGY-1 year initially...
- PGY-2/3 transferred to a different residency (same field) 5 hours away for family reasons: cold called, they had an open spot, PDs chatted and they agreed to it. That person is happy but will owe a little extra time (2-3 months) onto residency given different requirements.
- PGY-3 transferred to us from 6-7 hours away for significant other, again arranged by PDs and he is very happy. He cold called the residency office for initial information, we had a spot given the above.
- PGY-2 (x2 over 4 years) which the field was a poor fit, but good workers and positive attitudes - administration helped them transfer into other fields within the same institution, I think they are much happier.
- PGY-2 transferred to us after completing a different residency, but had interpersonal relationship problems and had a lying habit - was removed from the campus forcibly by police. We are much happier now.
Just some stories from one large residency program, but transfers DO happen but I will echo what others have said - stay in the good graces of your PDs and work really hard. His/Her/Their word is of supreme importance (also for jobs and fellowships) and if you need to transfer for one reason or another, you'll need to count on them as a reference.
- PGY-2 interested in Orthopedics (always was, but applied Anes as backup): transferred and repeated PGY-1 as surgery prelim then advanced into open Ortho PGY-2, now happy. I wouldn't recommend this track, it was very risky as he didn't have any options after that repeated PGY-1 year initially...
- PGY-2/3 transferred to a different residency (same field) 5 hours away for family reasons: cold called, they had an open spot, PDs chatted and they agreed to it. That person is happy but will owe a little extra time (2-3 months) onto residency given different requirements.
- PGY-3 transferred to us from 6-7 hours away for significant other, again arranged by PDs and he is very happy. He cold called the residency office for initial information, we had a spot given the above.
- PGY-2 (x2 over 4 years) which the field was a poor fit, but good workers and positive attitudes - administration helped them transfer into other fields within the same institution, I think they are much happier.
- PGY-2 transferred to us after completing a different residency, but had interpersonal relationship problems and had a lying habit - was removed from the campus forcibly by police. We are much happier now.
Just some stories from one large residency program, but transfers DO happen but I will echo what others have said - stay in the good graces of your PDs and work really hard. His/Her/Their word is of supreme importance (also for jobs and fellowships) and if you need to transfer for one reason or another, you'll need to count on them as a reference.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,614
- Reaction score
- 5,181
Yikes. That's a story I'd like to hear.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 7,009
- Reaction score
- 4,494
Bumped back to intern status fron PGY-3, wowzers.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,368
- Reaction score
- 17,873
Should have just been let go, but our PD had a heart of gold. Even wrote him a good enough LOR to allow him to find a 3rd IM position.
Light at end of tunnel
Dangerous to be right when government is wrong
Removed
Lifetime Donor
5+ Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2016
- Messages
- 985
- Reaction score
- 983
What was it about this particular resident that makes you say they should have been let go?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,614
- Reaction score
- 5,181
He said he went home during in-house call and didn't return pages from juniors or nurses. That is quite literally not doing ones job in the most basic sense. It would be grounds for firing at any job, not just residency.
Light at end of tunnel
Dangerous to be right when government is wrong
Removed
Lifetime Donor
5+ Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2016
- Messages
- 985
- Reaction score
- 983
For sure, that is completely unacceptable.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,368
- Reaction score
- 17,873
Then why did you even ask? That was just the most egregious of his behaviors.
Not showing up for specialty clinics.
Letting med students log in to his EMR account and do the notes for him.
The list goes on.
And that's not even taking his clinical "skills" into account.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Messages
- 3,773
- Reaction score
- 3,746
Maybe one day, when it's not so fresh and I'm a bit farther removed from residency.
Point of all this is, I still have yet to hear of a true "residency swap," which is disappointing for those wanting to do it but there are just too many factors in play (especially once you START residency) to make it a feasible option.
- Joined
- May 6, 2016
- Messages
- 125
- Reaction score
- 170
I know of two residents who transferred programs. One of them had a poor fit at the original program for several reasons and was struggling with depression and then my partner transferred into a PGY2 spot to be closer to me (best thing that ever happened). It's a bit redundant to say you need a "compelling reason" to transfer because obviously if you want to transfer you probably already have a good enough reason. It takes a lot of work and energy and I can't imagine anyone wanting to do it just for ****s n giggles. You do NOT need to have a sick relative or be trying to move closer to your spouse or anything like that in order to be considered as a serious candidate. The two most important things are support from your current PD (a letter from them is required) and finding an open spot. Because of the weird rules around Match and contracts and transferring you aren't technically allowed to contact PDs at other programs. However, the loophole is that it's acceptable to get in touch with program coordinators and after expressing interest in a transfer position they are allowed to contact you should a position open up (as they are simply responding to you reaching out). I'm really happy to speak more about this with anyone if they are in the process and want to PM me for more details!
Why would people be bound by Match rules as residents (by definition after the match)?
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,526
- Reaction score
- 27,449
You have no restrictions as for contacting PDs at other programs when you are a resident.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 25,158
- Reaction score
- 34,861
to be precise, you have to show up and do either 4 or 6 weeks (IIRC) to fulfill the match agreement. After that you are your own bird. Of course, this is just from the standpoint of the Match agreement, not whatever individual contract you have with the program.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 1,411
Our program has taken transfers most generally when a spouse is already a resident or fellow here, for family reunification purposes. The transferring persons have been successful and well rated at their previous program.
- Joined
- May 6, 2016
- Messages
- 125
- Reaction score
- 170
Thanks for the correction! We were advised not to do this but to speak with a coordinator instead so as not to violate the contract but perhaps it's that PDs are not allowed to contact residents.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,084
- Reaction score
- 9,982
Just adding another anecdote - I remember a transfer worked out between 2 highly regarded ENT residencies a few years back. Apparently two applicants first met on the trail, matched at 2 great programs, and ended up getting engaged/married. They went to their PDs and worked out an arrangement where one transferred after PGY1, did a research year while that program took one less in the match, and then started at the spouse's program as a PGY2.
Here too: compelling reason, strong applicants, involving PDs early, PDs who are good people.
Here too: compelling reason, strong applicants, involving PDs early, PDs who are good people.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,368
- Reaction score
- 17,873
Who is advising you? Because “they” are *****s and you need to stop listening to them.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 28
How did your partner end up finding an open spot to be closer to you? I don’t know anyone who has done this successfully and I’m in the same boat and trying to find a way. Any advice would be so appreciated. Thanks.
Hey there! I'd love send you a PM, but I'm getting a message saying it's limited. Can you send me one? Thanks so much!
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2003
- Messages
- 961
- Reaction score
- 10
I successfully transferred between programs a few years ago. It was extremely stressful and gratifying at the same time.
From ortho to... IM
From ortho to... IM
I transferred after my PGY1 year in my specialty in order to enter a shorter program and have a better fit academically. It was refreshingly straightforward--like getting a regular job, not having to deal with the ERAS/match rules nonsense. In hindsight though, the grass is always greener...
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2018
- Messages
- 15
- Reaction score
- 2
When applying for open vacancy at another program, 2-3 letters of recommendation are often required. If I am applying for the same specialty but different residency program, can I re-use my recommendation letters that I used when first applying for residency? Do I need to ask for additional recommendation letters at current residency program in addition to PD's recommendation letter?
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 520
hi there, tried to PM you but it wouldn’t let me. Do you mind sending me a message? Thanks!
If somebody is willing to repeat intern year, could they re-apply to the match in the same specialty that they matched in to? For example, if I am at my matched FM program but want to be at a program closer to home, can I just apply to the match this year to FM and only apply to programs near my home town? This way I wouldn't have to transfer programs.
The reason is I SOAPed into this program but feel that had I applied to FM in the first place, I could have matched at a program closer to family. My wife and I are just very unhappy here and I want to see what kinds of options I have.
The reason is I SOAPed into this program but feel that had I applied to FM in the first place, I could have matched at a program closer to family. My wife and I are just very unhappy here and I want to see what kinds of options I have.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,793
- Reaction score
- 9,019
Yes. They could. But without support of your current program director, your chance of matching to a new spot would be on the order of 0%. If you do have support of your current PD, you can apply for both rematching as a PGY1 and inquire as to PGY2 spots in the area.
Does anybody know how far in advance transfers are set up? If I were to work with my PD and another program to get a transfer going, is this something that is generally done later in the year, a few months before I would transfer or is it done way in advance?
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,007
- Reaction score
- 6,711
you seem to have the idea that you are going to just transfer over to another program because " you don't like this one"...i'm sure your PD, who took you in the SOAP, is going to be thrilled and supportive.
you will m/l have to give up this spot and enter the Match in less than a month. There is no guarantee that you will be able to keep your current position since your program is going to want to fill that spot as soon as possible to keep from having to go along with one intern down (and in a small program, that can be a big deal.
if your PD is not supportive (and why wold he be? its not like you have a legit reason like an urgent family issue or changing into another specialty), he will be at best, non committal ...other PDs will know that...its a small world.
and remember, you did not match when you were your most competitive, a 4th yr US senior...you are less competitive now...and if you are a DO, IMG, FMG or need a visa...even less so.
basically you have to ask yourself are you willing to NOT have a residency spot to change to some other place...it 3 years, just keep your head down and get through it to be able to work wherever you want and be happy.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 10,417
- Reaction score
- 14,630
Many programs will not allow you to repeat your PGY-1 if a prior PGY-1 was completed successfully. It's a waste of resources, can be very demoralizing for the intern, and creates funding problems in the PGY-3. But there is no rule against it.
As already mentioned, finding a new PGY-1 via the match is problematic. You won't find out if you have a new position until Match day, March 2019. Your current program will likely want to fill your open spot long before then. So ultimately you could end up repeating your PGY-1 in a less ideal location, or not match at all and have nothing. Your program can wait until match day before filling your spot, but that's a big ask of you (since most people looking for PGY-2's will have already signed a contract by then.
Your best option is to try to find a PGY-2 position in the geographic location you're looking for. There's no timeline for this, chances are programs don't know if they have any open PGY-2 positions for next year yet. But they might -- esp if they are increasing the size of their program. You can certainly reach out and ask, but should ley your current PD know early in the process.
As already mentioned, finding a new PGY-1 via the match is problematic. You won't find out if you have a new position until Match day, March 2019. Your current program will likely want to fill your open spot long before then. So ultimately you could end up repeating your PGY-1 in a less ideal location, or not match at all and have nothing. Your program can wait until match day before filling your spot, but that's a big ask of you (since most people looking for PGY-2's will have already signed a contract by then.
Your best option is to try to find a PGY-2 position in the geographic location you're looking for. There's no timeline for this, chances are programs don't know if they have any open PGY-2 positions for next year yet. But they might -- esp if they are increasing the size of their program. You can certainly reach out and ask, but should ley your current PD know early in the process.
I switched from pgy 1 neurology into a pgy 2 psychiatry position. My program director was a godsend. If not for her, I would have had 0% chance. Getting into a open pgy 2 spot is more difficult than it looks. I almost did not get a spot.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,007
- Reaction score
- 6,711
that is different since you switched specialties...most PD don't want residents that are have realized another specialty is better suited to them and want to make the person IS in the right specialty...the OP wants to switch FM programs because he just doesn't like the program he SOAPed into...his poor decisions will not be a valid reason for his PD to be supportive.
Hi there, this is a long shot, but just wanted to ask a few questions. Can't PM like some others have said, can u PM me? Thanks.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
- Messages
- 23,745
- Reaction score
- 12,045
People that can't PM can't do so because they have less than 10 posts. That is, I believe, to minimize chances of bots and spammers, well, spamming other users.
It may be another number, like 50, but, regardless, one cannot just have a single post, and use the PM function.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,526
- Reaction score
- 27,449
Or just ask your questions on here.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2018
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 1
Hello,
I was recently matched into IM at a program that-- as I have researched more and more and thought deeply about -- I am certain is not the right fit for me. I can say this because I did 2 rotations there as a student MS4, thinking I would love it. I initially applied for GS and IM and had interviews for both specialties along the interview trail. However, I did not match into GS, which is what I had my heart set on. My thoughts have also changed about IM. I initially had it as a back up specialty and near the end of M4 (after interview season) I did more IM rotations and realized it was just not for me.
My biggest questions are more in regards to the logistics of switching specialties.
1. Since it seems like Completing my intern/PGY-1 year is my best option for now - how do I approach the PD? And how soon? (since applications are due Sept 15)
2. Do I need new LORs? I could likely get 1 new one - with a lot of strategic email writing.
3. How did interview season work? I'm terrified that if I am lucky enough to get interviews that I won't be able to go.
Also, the institution I matched at for IM does not have a surgery program -- BUT I did do a "non-ACGME" surgery rotation there with one of the surgeons (which is where I would hope to get the 1 new LOR from that was noted above).
I would appreciate any advice or suggestions you have as I thought your post to be quite genuine and helpful on the original thread.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,526
- Reaction score
- 27,449
Why do you think you didn't match into GS the first time? What will be different this time around?
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2018
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm not entirely sure if there is one reason. I was so hopeful and thrilled with my surgery interviews and they all felt so natural. I was so blindsided by my match. However, I do think my Step1/2 scores could have been better. My understanding is that taking step 3 and doing well could help. Although, I understand it may not carry as much weight.
I'm also a US-IMG and as much as I'd like to deny it, I think that fact alone makes me a less attractive candidate. If I were to work hard and do well as a PGY-1 in a medicine program, I like to think that could prove to GS programs that I can at least work well at a resident level and that I am worth the time and effort a program would put into me.
Lastly, if I could get a good letter from my PD and the surgeon at my program (whom I rotated with in 4th year) those are two more people who are willing to "go to bat" for me.
Unfortunately, that's really all I have right now. Any advice or suggestions are welcome.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,526
- Reaction score
- 27,449
You wouldn't be able to prove much in about 3 months worth of rotations by the time applications need to be submitted. As well, you don't have an academic surgeon to write you letters. If your Step 1/2 scores are low, plus IMG, that is likely to knock you out of the running. Step 3 isn't going to change anything for you.
Plus, your PD may not be so helpful and you find you might not get renewed for PGY2 year. If you don't find a match, well, you might never get another training program again.
Your best bet is to finish your program and apply for the following year for GS if thats what you really want. Your chances of getting a GS spot is low, though.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2018
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 1
@ThoracicGuy
Thank you for your replies. Well, that is... heartbreaking and very disappointing to hear. As I am already a bit older than most people in my residency program and adding on 3 more years to residency training is not as feasible as it would be for others.
With that said, my SO also matched this year. We decided against couples matching based on the fact that there was only one combination that would separate us very far apart. Can you guess what happened on match day??? (spoiler alert: that one combination is now our reality)
What are your thoughts on at least getting a program closer to my SO -- even if it is IM.
Thank you for your replies. Well, that is... heartbreaking and very disappointing to hear. As I am already a bit older than most people in my residency program and adding on 3 more years to residency training is not as feasible as it would be for others.
With that said, my SO also matched this year. We decided against couples matching based on the fact that there was only one combination that would separate us very far apart. Can you guess what happened on match day??? (spoiler alert: that one combination is now our reality)
What are your thoughts on at least getting a program closer to my SO -- even if it is IM.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2010
- Messages
- 3,018
- Reaction score
- 6,119
@aProgDirector may have more information about your odds of successfully managing an IM --> IM transfer to be closer to your SO. That said, from everything I've seen posted regarding this subject in the past, the only viable option would likely be to re-enter the match (likely after completing PGY1) and hoping to match somewhere else as a PGY1. Transferring into a new program as a PGY2 is obviously dependent on there being a PGY2 opening somewhere and you being a stellar applicant with the full support of your PD behind you. You are unlikely to have all of that going for you by this application cycle.
Just to add to what @ThoracicGuy said above, sticking with IM (and quite possibly with your current program) is likely your best option. I know you said you had step 1/2 scores that "could have been better." To give some context, a US-IMG with an average step 1 score (mean was 229 for the most recent data) has only a 30% chance of matching into gen surg. Lower scores are obviously even less likely to match. A repeat application without somehow significantly strengthening your profile is unlikely to be successful.
