Real World Numbers

[Xyy22]

I know this question might sound redundant

but how much money do specialists make and

how many hours per week do they work. I

would like info regarding Endo, Perio, OMS,

and Ortho.

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[Ford67]

You want some real world numbers you got em.

Ortho- 250-450k a year but very high earning potential. 30-35 hours a week

OMS- 350-500k a year 40-45 hours a week

Endo- 500-700k a year 30-35 hours a week

Perio- 350-500k a year 35-40 hours a week

 

[MsPurtell]

Hey Ford 67 - are those figures gross or net? Are tehy for a particular region or are they averages? Those salaries are amazing!

 

[Ford67]

Those salaries are very typical of specialists working full time and about 5 years out of residency. Of course alot of specialists dont make that much but on the other hand alot make more too. Where the practice is located can effect ones income potential but its nowhere as dramatic as what you see in medicine. An Endodontist in Cal. , N.Y., or Iowa can expect to make atleast 500k a year. Going into Dentistry for the money isnt a good idea, many people have made this mistake. But if your goal in life is to be wealthy and also have a life outside your job, look into ENDO. The financial gains are emormous and the future of Endo is bright since it is now stressed that keeping your teeth is the best thing for your oral health. But beware!!!!! During college I worked for an Endodontist in the NYC metro area. He worked 32 hours a week, made 800k a year and was only 34 year old. He was also extremely unsatisfied with his job since he was really interested in OMS but went into ENDO for the money. He told me that he would gladly trade his job for a OMS postion that paid half as much and worked twice the hours. Hope this helps

 

[Ford67]

Sorry,that is NET INCOME.

 

[MsPurtell]

Thanks so much for the info Ford. I have no idea yet if specialties will intrigue me, but it's great to have the numbers (did you really say 800K ) in mind.

 

[Ford67]

Yes, 800K a year. Alot of people wonder how Endodontists make so much and work so little. There is three very good reasons.

1. The biggest reason is that Endo practices have such little overhead. They usually only have 1-3 employees. They also have small offices so rent is small. Finally the only use a small variety of tools and dental materials.

2. Another reason is that root canal therapy and other endodontic surgeries are very expensive.

3. Say if someone has gum disease they dont have to go to a Periodontists. Or if someone is missing a tooth they dont have to go a Prosthodontist. If someone has a tooth ache there are going to get it fixed which is good for two reasons. The Endodontist can charge alot for his/her services and there will be a good patient pool.

Endo is finally starting to come into its own. Up into recently many dentists would recomend pulling a tooth instead of saving it through root canal therapy. Now it is known that there is no substitute for ones original tooth. Added to that fact that endodontic surgery is much less painful and barbaric, Endodontics should be a very exciting field in the future. By the way Endodontists do other things beside root canals. They deal with trama to the dentition and perform common procedures such as apicoectomy and root resections. Hope this helps.

 

[nero]

those numbers are amazing. it is definitely more than a lot of medical specialities, and especially for such a little amount of hours of work. i mean some surgeons may make 800 k, but they also work about 60 hrs a week or more and they are always on call. i had no idea dentist had such a large income potential.

nero

 

[hunk22]

hey i just wanted to know how much dentists right out of dental school can expect to make. I do not mean to sound shallow but i'm taking out students loans of around $260K so i really want to know.

 

[Thebeyonder]

Hi,
It depends on your rank in school. If you do well you may be able to score a good position at a good office.
I think the range is $60,000-$130,000.
Tim.

 

[Ford67]

The Beyonder is completely right. Many dental students think that grades dont matter if they dont want to became a specialists. Many Dentists with a thriving practice will want a good student. The average pay for a Gen. Dentist right out of school is probably around 80k.(50-150k range) But be careful!!!!!! I hate to say it but ALOT of dentists are greedy and will take advantage of new grads. For example, say there is a dentist who is netting 200k a year and working 35 hours a week. Then he decides to hire an associate. Say then he doubles his net income while he is working 25 hours a week and his associate is working 45 hours a week. He makes about 350k working less hours while his associate is working like a dog and makes 50K. Sick huh! It happens more than u may think. Hope this helps.

 

[qualitycontrol]

how often will you find employers offering to pay back student loans...just wondering-thanks

 

[Ford67]

Usually u dont see that many Dentists willing to pay back student loans. The only situation u will come across it is when a dentist is grooming u for partnership because then you are his asset. Hope this helps.

 

[qualitycontrol]

cool-

kina off the subject, but do you think it's worth it to take an obligatory scholarship, like PHS or VA or Armed Forces to free the debt? How do those work anyway?

 

[Tiramisu]

hey ford67,
can you tell me what dental school you go or went to? it seems like you know alot of the related topics. Do most Dental specialist accept medical or HMO in the east coast area??

 

[Ford67]

I am a proud graduate of SUNY Stony Brook School of Dental Medicine. It is a great school that intergrates all aspects of Dentistry very well and nothing beats the small class size. Its up to the specialist but i will tell you that most like to run thier pracitces in the fee for service format. I dont think HMOs will ever be able to "socialize" dentistry or lets hope so. If u have any more questions feel free to ask. Hope this helps.

 

[MsPurtell]

Ford- I would love to go to SUNY - stony brook. They are one of my top choices, if not my top choice! Do you have any recommendations as far as getting in. My index is about 3.7 (science a little lower). I have lots of recommendations, I'm shadowing a dentist, I do volunteer work at a hospital, my manual dexterity is phenomenal, I've been working in a laboratory setting for over eleven years. I'll take the DAT this Saturday, but so far my practice test are above average. What do you think??? Any pointers? Thanks a million! And, I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but what type of dentist are you? Do you practice on LI? Margaret

 

[Ford67]

You are in great shape Ms Purtell. SUNY Stony Brook puts alot of emphasis on your science GPA and overall GPA. Also dont worry about the PAT i did horrible on it and i still got in(study hard for the DAT though). Having good manual skills is plus but if you dont , like myself, its no big deal. I would say that u are a shoe in Ms Purtell as long as u are a NY STATE RESIDENT. They rarely except non-residents. Actually right now iam not practicing, iam in my third and thank god last year of my Periodontology residency. I come from a long line of Periodontists father and Uncles. Hope this helps and good look applying to Stony Brook.

 

[MsPurtell]

Thanks Ford - that's a huge help and a huge confidence booster!! I am a NYS resident. I hope they respond well to me as an older student (I'm 33).

 

[Dr. Pedo]

ford,

Been reading your posts and you certainly know your stuff! Question: Perio, is an interest of mine---- I'm an older student, 28, and start U of Iowa in Aug.(extremely excited)--- Is it imperative that I start doing research early? How difficult of a match is Perio vs. Ortho? Are we talking top 10 in your class with incredible boards? You mentioned in a previous post------about practicing in Iowa is good for income-----why is that? Is your perio. training a master's program?

Thanks for your time,
R.R.B

 

[Ford67]

Sorry i was just using Iowa as an example that you can make alot of money any where as a dentist, in other words its not like medicine. As for perio its by far the most interesting part of dentistry. As of now I would say Ortho and Endo are the two most competive followed by perio and OMS. You DONT have to graduate in the top ten or get a 95+ on the boards to get into perio or even ortho. Just relax and enjoy Dental school its really awesome, just takes too long. To increase your odds of getting into a perio or endo residency do research, it will help alot. Ofcourse graduating in the top ten and getting a 95 on the boards will help alot but its NOT a must. And if you dont get in right after graduation do a GPR and then apply, this will help especially in ENDO. For the program I going to you can obtain a MS in Oral Biology but it requires extra research and time so i declined. In other words i cant wait to go out and practice dentistry. I ll bet alot of money u will fall in love will periodontics. Its a very cutting edge field and so interesting. Hope this helped.

 

[DBEAR]

Hey Ford. I am in my 4th year of dental school and I just turned in my applications for perio. I am wondering if you have any advice for me as I start the process of interviews. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Ford67]

Never under estimate the importance of the interview. I dont care if you graudated first in your class, if you act like an arrogant jerk your not going to get the spot. Try to be as amiable as possible. If you did any research perio or not talk about it, research is very important if you want to get into a Perio or Endo program but not a must. I hope u get a spot, trust me your going to love it.

 

[Sterichind]

Hello Ford67,

I found your posts very educational. Thank you. I am an incoming student to SUNY-Stony Brook School of Dental Medicine. I am wondering if you have any tips about the school and survival tips. Thanks alot.

Sterichind

 

[Ford67]

I can not stress how good a school SUNY Stony Brook is. You will graduate with excellent clinical skills along with a great knowlegde of dentistry, most schools cant do that. The first year actually isnt all that hard, you learn about the body as a whole as well as oral biology. The second year was the hardest by far because you have to adjust to a very demanding amount of course work. By the way you will start clinics in the second year. The third year you get alot of exposure to the differant aspects of dentistry in particular Perio, OMS and Prosthodontics. The fourth year basically you are a practicing general dentist. There are alot of research oppurtunities which is stressed by the professors. They also have a great reputation for placing students in residencies of their choice. With the tiny class size you will become good friends with all your class mates which is a great aspect of the school.

 

[Mr. So-So]

i'd like to echo the other 'thanks Ford67' posts.
you've been very helpful..and thanks again.

Originally posted by Sterichind:
•Hello Ford67,

I found your posts very educational. Thank you. I am an incoming student to SUNY-Stony Brook School of Dental Medicine. I am wondering if you have any tips about the school and survival tips. Thanks alot.

Sterichind•

 

[stdent9972]

Hello there ford67. I have two questions. I am an older student (28) and will be 29 when i start and 33 when i graduate. I will ahev spent 6-7 years post B.A. to get a DDS. Question 1: Do you think it is worth it to specialize? What are the pros/ cons? Question 2: How much do grades matter in dental school if you don't wish to specialize. If you graduate in the lower 25% of the class, are you doomed or will you still be ok?

 

[Ford67]

Choosing to specialize is totally up to the individual. The cons are you have to spend 2 to 6 years in a residency, some programs will actually charge tuition (more debt), and the residencies are very demanding especially OMS. The pros are that a specialist can dervive alot of professional satisfaction from their work, they get to learn in detail about something they like and are intersted in, and they make alot of money especially Endo and Ortho. If you are intersted in a specialty then go for it. But if you like to do a broad range of things stick to General practice , you can still make a ton of money and be satisfied profesionally. Your second question is not so cut and dry. Some dentists will consider your grades when looking at your resume but others wont, actually I would say most DONT. The ones that do will most likely be Dentists that want to make you a future partner in their practice.

 

[Dental Caries]

If you chose to specialize would you do your residency at the school that you went to for your specialty schooling or would you go to a hospital/clinic?

 

[Doggie]

Hey Ford,

I am going to start my 1st year this month and would like to start planning my next 4 years of hell.

When do u think is a good time to start getting into research for specialities? From what i've heard from a few instructors at various schools, the best time is during the 2nd year. How do students even have the time to deal with "extra-curricular" activities when the 2nd year is considered the toughest year?

Also....are there any "one" type of research that will make the interview committees' eyes gleam when they see the applicant's cv? I'm assuming that research is research......as long as the student kicks some hardcore butt, it shouldnt matter, right?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Ford67]

I think you should do research when ever its most convenient. Alot depends also where you go to school. Some professors stress research and make it very accessible while others dont. Research is important if you are interested in Perio or Endo. If you dont have stellar grades then doing some research will help your chances. Say if you want to go into Endo, you dont have to do research about Endo. Though doing research in Endo would demonstrate a genuine interest in it. Dont worry you will have time, Dental school ,while hard, isnt as demanding as you think.