Really PISSED OFF and want to get OUT!

[Panama Red]

So here's my situation. I am an Air Force PGY1 categorically matched intern requesting to change specialties. Both specialties, the one I'm in now and the one I want, did not fill. However, after talking to the higher-ups (who tend to follow protocol rather than common sense), I have been told that no one is allowed to just change specialties even of there's space available. The rule is that everyone, including myself, must resign their residency and do a minimum 2 year GMO tour, THEN reapply to the specialty of their choice. Though I was pissed off about not being able to just switch, I was a bit delighted to hear that the 2 year GMO tour counts towards my 4 year HPSP commitment. From what I was also informed, GMO's are basically family docs. This also intrigued me since Family medicine was a specialty that I highly considered. So, this is what I'm now considering instead of the daunting possibility of going GMO, coming back in 2 years for another residency (residency lasting a minimum of 4 years), and still owing time back. I just want to "BURN UP" my active duty service commitment as a GMO for 4 years and GET OUT! Though I've only been in active duty, internship and with the military for 1.5 months, I am already fed up with the uncertainties of military medicine and inability to do what I'd like to do if I was just a civilian. I can't stand this service commitment hanging over my head any longer, and being told that I just couldn't transfer specialties was the last straw.
A little about me- I have some interest in clinical medicine. However, I am leaning more towards teaching. I would like to teach medical ethics and humanities at a medical school or university. I may even consider not even doing residency training.
If there are any GMO's or individuals with some advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Some specific questions- What are the traditional roles of GMO's? What is the pay? How many hours/day do you usually work and are weekends off? Is there call? Am I deployable as a GMO, ie could I be sent to Iraq? Can GMO's serve there entire requesting time, in my case, 4 years, at one base? What bases are usually available? After completion of the GMO, are there good job opportunities for someone who has not completed a residency? Would anyone advise me not to do this?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Milrad]

I was a flight surgeon with an HPSP who did his 4 years and got out then did residency...he is very happy.

I believe GMO's can deploy. I knew a few who worked in the ER or ACC did 12 hour shifts just like the ER docs. You will likely be treated like a PA or NP but with more training.

You can likely go to any base but it is needs of the AF and you likely won't get your first choice. Stateside you will almost certainly server 4 years at the same base.

Concider being a Flight Surgeon (at a flying base) sure you have to deploy with your unit but it is more fun than being a GMO. Try to go overseas (less BS than stateside) or atleast stay away from Space Comm.

GMO get Base pay and allowances as per your rank (look up a pay chart) plus $15000.00 bonus each July. Flight surgeons get flight pay each month.

After GMO you should do a residency or you will only be able to work Doc in a box civilian.

This is your fastest way out of the AF, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Mark

 

[pgg]

It's unfortunate that the AF can't be more accommodating of your last minute whimsical change of heart. Although it may appear to be a trivial matter to just let you switch, there may well be staffing/billeting/funding issues that you're not aware of here. Your program, for instance, is counting on you to honor your contract and provide some useful work during your scheduled rotations. Your classmates are counting on you to not screw them with extra call by leaving. (You think it'd be easy for a civilian intern to "just switch" to another program? On July 10th? What program would want such a flake?)

With respect, it sounds like a big part of your problem is you. You didn't know the first thing about military medicine before you accepted a commission and all those checks, and two whole weeks into your payback you're "pissed" because the Air Force gave you the categorical residency slot you asked for.

There's enough fail in your post to fuel a lot more typing, but I'll just close by saying that serving your time as a GMO (who are most certainly NOT family docs) for 4 years, getting out, and doing a civilian residency is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

STF for more on GMO tours.

 

[sethco]

If there are any GMO's or individuals with some advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Some specific questions- What are the traditional roles of GMO's? What is the pay? How many hours/day do you usually work and are weekends off? Is there call? Am I deployable as a GMO, ie could I be sent to Iraq? Can GMO's serve there entire requesting time, in my case, 4 years, at one base? What bases are usually available? After completion of the GMO, are there good job opportunities for someone who has not completed a residency? Would anyone advise me not to do this?

You have chosen a path that many (especially recently) have chosen to just finish their ADSC and GTFO. Everybody has different combination of reasons, but I am happy that I am taking this path and I just finished my halfway point My doughnut of misery is now reading 51% )

As an AF GMO, you will become a Flight Surgeon unless you are physically disqualified. If possible, you should really push for this option for several reasons that have been outlined in previous posts

You're base pay is based on an O-3 and you're pay date starts the time you graduate medical school. You will also get ASP (15K/year in a single payment) and VSP (5K/year divided over 12 months). If you are a flight surgeon, you get flight pay aslo (125/month, I think)

Generally work 10 hours/day, 5 days a week, but schedule varies based on deployments, TDYs, inspections, air shows, shop visits, accident investigations and other events that require your presence. But, yes, weekends are generally off.

The new minimum tour at a single CONUS base is now 4 years, so yes you can serve your entire time at the same base. If you want to PCS, you have to wait 2 years from the time you report to that base to go to a OCONUS location and 4 years for another CONUS base.

To find the locations that are available to flight surgeons, go to the AF Portal and under application list, click Assignment Management System (AMS). Under officer assignements, click search authorizations. In the AFSC drop box, click 48G. This will give a listing of all available locations for a 48G1 (i.e. First year Flight Medicine doc)

I would advise you to complete a residency after completion of a GMO tour. In particular, you may want to look at Occ Med/Prev Med. However, there are positions (including consulting) for people that have only completed their PGY-1 year

Hope this helps

 

[sethco]

It's unfortunate that the AF can't be more accommodating of your last minute whimsical change of heart.

Kind of mean, but still pretty damn funny.

Your program, for instance, is counting on you to honor your contract and provide some useful work during your scheduled rotations. Your classmates are counting on you to not screw them with extra call by leaving. (You think it'd be easy for a civilian intern to "just switch" to another program? On July 10th? What program would want such a flake?)

I don't agree with this. If you are not happy with a specialty, why would you just stay in it to make other people happy? It might make matters even worse if that person was miserable and made others around them the same. I would rather that person just left the program and stopped bringing others down. I think it is better to do this as a PGY-1 or 2 than a PGY-3 or 4. I do agree with the perception that it would also be hard to switch in the civilian world, especially at this time of the year.

 

[Panama Red]

For your information, pgg, this has absolutely nothing to do with "flakiness" or my "whimsical change of heart." However, this has everything to do with BOTH parties honoring a contract. FYI, I did not have the opportunity to rotate in my desired specialty until January, and the GME board selected me for my current specialty in December. Nevertheless, you are absolutely right about me "not knowing the first thing about military medicine." I DID NOT know that when I originally signed my HPSP contract, I would be lied to about the obligations by just about everyone in uniform to simply get me in the program. I DID NOT know that after 4 years of medical school, I would have certain specialties closed off to me because another poor individual,, like myself, who is already at the mercy of the military and already on a GMO tour, needs a "fair shot" at matching. I know my potential and I have not worked this hard to have anyone/anything block my career aspirations.
With respect, I do not believe the big problem is my uncertainty. People are allowed to changed their minds and express their opinions. But I guess thinking is not acceptable in the military. What appears to be problem is that this organization, the military, lacks honor by lying to uninformed individuals, coaxing niave med students terrified by debt into signing contracts, and then making hardworking individuals like myself feel bad because we refuse to be "used" and "happily accept whatever we can get."

 

[Perrotfish]

I DID NOT know that after 4 years of medical school, I would have certain specialties closed off to me because another poor individual,, like myself, who is already at the mercy of the military and already on a GMO tour, needs a "fair shot" at matching.

Wait, I'm confused. Did you get the specialty you asked for, or not? I mean, I understand you want to switch, but do you want to switch to something that you origionally put down as your first choice or did you change your mind after matching?

 

[notdeadyet]

What appears to be problem is that this organization, the military, lacks honor by lying to uninformed individuals, coaxing niave med students terrified by debt into signing contracts

Meh. I'm underwhelmed with folks who play the "clever and mature" card to get in to medical school but then turn around and play the "naive and immature" card to get out of obligations like HPSP.

I have sympathy for the folks who took the scholarship back in the day, when you could find very little information about the program. But common sense dictates that you do your research before you sign away four year of your life to the military (which I think is pretty much universally understood to not be a particularly flexible or sympathetic institution) and there is no shortage of real information, data, and dirt about HPSP, military med or how the military treats its doctors.

I'm always a bit suprised when folks are willing to sign over a fair size chunk of their life to the government without putting in at least as much research time as they would a big term paper...

 

[Mirror Form]

It's unfortunate that the AF can't be more accommodating of your last minute whimsical change of heart. Although it may appear to be a trivial matter to just let you switch, there may well be staffing/billeting/funding issues that you're not aware of here. Your program, for instance, is counting on you to honor your contract and provide some useful work during your scheduled rotations. Your classmates are counting on you to not screw them with extra call by leaving. (You think it'd be easy for a civilian intern to "just switch" to another program? On July 10th? What program would want such a flake?)

Please explain to me what is so flakey about not wanting to do a residency in your non-first choice specialty? It's not uncommon to want to leave after pgy1 year.

Have you graduated med school yet? People switch fields in the civilian world all the time.

 

[Mirror Form]

I just want to "BURN UP" my active duty service commitment as a GMO for 4 years and GET OUT!

That is what I would recomend to anyone who already has to do 2 years as a gmo. You might as well just do the next two and get it over with rather than go back into residency (which may accumulate even more of a commitment beyond hpsp scholarship).

It's not all that uncommon to do 4 yrs as a gmo and then gtfo.

 

[BomberDoc]

I did my 4 years as a flight doc, got the F out at the earliest opportunity, and am now about a month into civ residency and LOVING it.

After taking a bite of the s#it sandwich the military feeds you every day for 4 years, the minimal stresses of residency are unremarkable at their most severe.

 

[Mirror Form]

Agreed, but you're misunderstanding what happened here.

1) He put down Specialty X as his first choice
2) In December, he matched into Specialty X
3) In January, he rotated in Specialty Y, and really liked it
4) He asked to change specialties and was told no

I like the way he assumes he could just switch if he were a civilian. Methinks someone needs to read up on examples of "Match Violations".

Well of course he can't switch to a different internship. However, it's not that uncommon for people to apply for a different pgy2 slots while doing their pgy1 year. That's what you'd do in in the civilian world. Whereas in the military you get stuck doing a two year gmo before they'll let you do it which is stupid. I can see making the OP do the gmo if they didn't match into the pgy2 slot. But to not even let them apply is annoying, and it would piss me off too.

 

[IgD]

It would be helpful if you tell us more about your situation. What are you trying to switch from and what are you trying to switch to? Why are you doing this? Why are you making a last minute decision? My experience has been last minute impulse decisions aren't often the best course of action.

 

[pgg]

For your information, pgg, [...]

Hey, whatever. If it's not something today, it'll be something tomorrow, and somebody else's fault.

Good luck. I mean that sincerely.

GMO time isn't optimal, but there's nothing wrong with doing your time, getting out, and doing a civilian residency. (Be sure to get your GI Bill benefits squared away well in advance.)

I don't agree with this. If you are not happy with a specialty, why would you just stay in it to make other people happy? It might make matters even worse if that person was miserable and made others around them the same. I would rather that person just left the program and stopped bringing others down. I think it is better to do this as a PGY-1 or 2 than a PGY-3 or 4. I do agree with the perception that it would also be hard to switch in the civilian world, especially at this time of the year.

I'm not suggesting that anyone remain in an undesired specialty forever. Lots of people change their mind and switch after doing an internship. Usually they get credit for the PGY1 year, although sometimes it has to be repeated, eg if they did an FP internship but want to change to surgery.

What I am suggesting is that I'm sympathetic to program directors who aren't inclined to reshuffle things in July. It's not unreasonable to expect someone who matched to hold up their end of the contract.

It's not uncommon to want to leave after pgy1 year.

Have you graduated med school yet? People switch fields in the civilian world all the time.

He's bitching because he can't switch 10 days into his PGY-1 year.

I'm a PGY-4 s/p 3 years as a GMO. I know people switch all the time - but they usually do so after their PGY-1 years, and they usually don't whine piteously about an unfair system that gave them what used to be their 1st choice.

I can see making the OP do the gmo if they didn't match into the pgy2 slot. But to not even let them apply is annoying, and it would piss me off too.

Frustrating, sure. But in the AF, if you don't match to a categorical slot, or if give up your categorical slot, you do GMO time. The AF Surgeon General made this explicitly clear a couple years ago.

 

[Mirror Form]

He's bitching because he can't switch 10 days into his PGY-1 year.

Well yeah, if that's what he was hoping before I'd agree that it would never happen in the civilian world either.

I'm a PGY-4 s/p 3 years as a GMO. I know people switch all the time - but they usually do so after their PGY-1 years, and they usually don't whine piteously about an unfair system that gave them what used to be their 1st choice.

Eh, people in military medicine often get very worked up about stuff like this. The only part of the OP's post that I found annoying was the end where they asked a bunch of questions about gmo's that could have been answered by doing a quick forum search.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I hope you didn't give up before talking to the specialty leader and the residency directors in the specialty you want to go into.

 

[Galo]

Meh. I'm underwhelmed with folks who play the "clever and mature" card to get in to medical school but then turn around and play the "naive and immature" card to get out of obligations like HPSP.

I have sympathy for the folks who took the scholarship back in the day, when you could find very little information about the program. But common sense dictates that you do your research before you sign away four year of your life to the military (which I think is pretty much universally understood to not be a particularly flexible or sympathetic institution) and there is no shortage of real information, data, and dirt about HPSP, military med or how the military treats its doctors.

I'm always a bit suprised when folks are willing to sign over a fair size chunk of their life to the government without putting in at least as much research time as they would a big term paper...

I think that is why this forum is so important. It levels, (or tips in some people's opinion, I'm sure), the amount of information available. Unfortunately I don't think enough people see it, and for some, they are so damn naive, that they refuse to believe some of the events we experienced would ever happen to them.

Its a screwed up system, and will continue to frustrate some people till it devolves into nothing and gets completely redone. Something I do not see happening in my lifetime. I think there are the middle section of people who just take the 4 years of duty, and try to make something positive out of it despite there usually being little of that. Its NOT WORTH IT!

 

[Gastrapathy]

I'm sorry bro but you need to get a grip. If you're coming at these people with this kind of attitude, I'm not surprised they've told you to f-off. Again, the issue is not what your PD thinks but what the specialty leader and PDs in the new specialty decide. Tell everyone you are going to do so, then apply for the program at the GMESB. Then work your ass off trying to be as good at your current program as you can between now and then. Sulk at your own peril

 

[a1qwerty55]

A little about me- I have some interest in clinical medicine. However, I am leaning more towards teaching. I would like to teach medical ethics and humanities at a medical school or university. I may even consider not even doing residency training.

I've been trying my best not to jump in to thsi one but I can't help myself. I hope this doesn't come across as mean but give me a break... Your exactly what the taxpayer hoped to recuit. A doctor who doesn't want to be a doctor and can't cope with military structure.

If there are any GMO's or individuals with some advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Some specific questions- What are the traditional roles of GMO's? What is the pay? How many hours/day do you usually work and are weekends off? Is there call? Am I deployable as a GMO, ie could I be sent to Iraq? Can GMO's serve there entire requesting time, in my case, 4 years, at one base? What bases are usually available? After completion of the GMO, are there good job opportunities for someone who has not completed a residency? Would anyone advise me not to do this?

I wonder how well you'll do with a deployment to Iraq, or Alabama for that matter. GMO route is the quickest (non chapter) way out, but are you cut out for that? You may want to start working on a sob story and lawyer up so you can negotiate an exit. A sexual attraction to a red stapler might help.