Really, what is the first cut?

[michelle23]

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Recently visited with an admissions staff member at UT Galveston with a friend of mine who is also premed. Were shocked by how stand alone the GPA seems to be in determining who gets an interview. Both myself and my friend were told by the dean of pre-health studies at UT Dallas that we shouldn't have any problems getting in as long as we interviewed well. Both of us are more than confident in our ability to ace the interview. However, the admissions counsleor indicated that first cut is based on a combo of the GPA and MCAT scores, and that any GPA under 3.4 (Overall & Science) would prevent the rest of our apps from even being read. She said the interviewers don't even get a copy of our GPAs or MCATs, as they have to get past the first cut. My GPA is about 3.5, w/ a science GPA of 3.1. I have few enough hours (62) to feasibly bring this up to maybe a 3.3-3.4, but as 3.57 is the median, I don't want to spend the several years on a long shot for med school. What is even more heartbreaking is my friends story - he has an undergrad GPA of close to 3.2 (BS in nursing) when he had no interest in and certainly no knowledge of the requirements for getting into med school. He has since gone back to school to do the prereqs, earning a 4.0 and getting the highest grade in Calc 1 (notoriously hard at our University) EVER. He works as both an ICU and ER nurse, and if anyone was ever meant to be a doctor, its him. But the admissons lady basically told him that unless he gets a masters, they will go on his low GPA (which of course can not move up that much because of all the hours he has), and that his chances based on that are very, very slim. Assuming that both of us maintain 3.2 GPAs and get 9-10 on the MCAT (he will probably get higher), do we have a prayer of making it past this "first cut," so that our letters of rec, experience, essays, and so on can be examined? Is this "first cut" the same at all schools? We would both consider DO schools.

 

[Paul's Boutique]

"We would both consider DO schools" wouldn't exactly win the hearts and minds of the admissions committees at the DO schools... sounds a bit like a last resort?

 

[chiari]

You both are still very much in the running for acceptance to medical school. I had a similar low GPA and was rejected on the first try. I buckled down and went back to school full time and got nearly straight As in some tough bio courses to prove my worthiness. My GPA only went up a little, but when I reapplied I had a year of solid academic coursework on my transcript. The fact that I stuck with it and did well impressed the committee.

The only people I would discourage from applying are people with under a 3.0. If you have > 3.0 and are willing to play the game you still have a chance.

 

[jawurheemd]

Don't lose hope -- your GPA shouldn't be your downfall if there are other parts of your application that are strong. My own GPA was a 3.25, but I got a 36 on my MCATs and that combination got me a few interviews. I am now successfully navigating my third year of medical school. Outside of the numbers, everything else is game for the admissions committee -- this includes experiences in research, community activities, and other extracurriculars. Life experiences are also important at some schools. Basically, you just need to try and hit the right combination and the doors will open. Chin up, get involved, and study for those MCATs -- that's all I can offer.

 

[Jim Henderson]

I agree... plenty of schools will not toss you automatically for that gpa.


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Jim Henderson, MD of MedicalStudent.net

 

[michelle23]

To Paul-
I want to make certain that I haven't offended anyone involved with a DO program. I know several DOs that are outstanding. I understand also that the DO program is almost as difficult to gain admissions to. I simply meant that with my GPA being borderline, perhaps my only true shot would be at a DO school. I phrased the sentence poorly.

 

[Paul's Boutique]

Not to worry, michelle23. I think it's sad that a school would turn down (i.e. 'first cut') a person with very good qualities and experiences just because they have a 3.36 v. a 3.4... one of the inherent benefits of applying to osteopathic schools is that they really -do- look at the whole application package (grades, MCATs, essays, and experiences) before making a decision. They do have GPA / MCAT cutoffs, but do make exceptions for those people with strong experiences, etc.



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-Paul (Western Univ./COMP '04)

"Never give in, never give in,
never, never, never, never..."
-Sir Winston Churchill, 1944

 

[OldManDave]

Hello Michelle23,

I just graduated from UTD this past May------->How is ole' Dr. Woods? Small world huh?

What you are saying is very true about the UTx system schools. And, I'm afraid it will also be true of many MD schools. My final GPA at UTD was 3.8 with a neuroscience major...but, when averaged with my old grades [10+ years old], my averages dropped to circa 2.9 cumulative. That and the fact I am a non-traditional applicant made the TX schools avoid me like the plague! Despite the fact I have about 10 years as a registered respiratory therapist under my belt.

It is HIGHLY unfortunate that those schools refuse to look any further than their calculator read-outs. They are missing a large number of people who would be wonderful Docs!

The current admissions paradigm is good at selecting people who can pass med school, as evidenced by a ~98% pass rate for students who reach the second year. However, as per JAMA [97], fully 39% of physicians wouldn't be physicians had they known what they now know and had it all to do over again. It seems that just cause you can make it through school doesn't mean that Doctoring will be your cup-O-tea!

My advice, look into DO schools. Like Paul and the others said...DO programs strongly favor people who have a well-rounded package to offer...many people confuse this as accepting second rate students. That simply is not true. DO schools look at much more than just numbers, which favors people like myself and your nurse friend, who have life experiences and may have stumbled somewhere along the way.

Whaever the case...you can get in with those numbers. I am currently an MS1 at KCOM------->the birthplace of Osteopathy. It is a wonderful feeling!

Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to ask further questions: [email protected]

Pay attention to Dr. Wood...he knows his stuff! Tell him I said hello as well.

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'Old Man Dave'
KCOM, Class of '03

 

[8404]

Bravo Dave! Couldn't have said it better myself. The friend who is an RN has probably worked with a few osteopathic physicians in the hospital. I would have to say he would almost definitely gain acceptance to a good D.O. program from the combo of THAT gpa, good MCAT, and mondo real life experience (which most likely GOT ME IN). Lifes a bitch and some of us must work during college and just cant seem to post the brainiac grades that many of the allopathic programs want to see. This certainly does not mean you would not make a good physician, but the applicant numbers are quite sobering and you may never get a shot at it. There are many who wear these shoes, but by being persistent and being open to all types of medicine, admission can be achieved. Then, it's all up to you how well you do!

8404 (TUCOM '03)

 

[Tony Montoya]

Visiting the admissions office was an excellent idea...but that was only one school. My gpa was pretty close to 3.0 and I think my MCAT was somwhere in the upper 20's but I still managed to scratch and claw my way into an excellent school. I applied to most of the California schools(my home state) - despite being similarly discouraged by admissions people and was surprised to be offered interviews at all of them except one. My point is...1) do more research...find out what other schools are looking for. 2) the more you stand out from the crowd the better your chances. I don't think you are a long shot at all...and in my experience, your friend's experiences are definitely an asset...don't be discouraged. Good luck.

 

[DoWannaBe]

Mich23

hi... I went to an undergrad in TX and was trying really hard getting into one of UT Med schools.. (didn't make it though huh huh..) I know how tough they are.. They require you everything. Most of MD schools in tx have 30 MCAT average.. It is amazing..

And don't forget... one DO School in TX TCOM is very hard school to get in too.. (also didn't make it..) average MCAT was something like 28.. and GPA was pretty high too.. I can be wrong..

So what I did is apply everywhere in the Nation. I applied 30 MD, 10 DO, 2 DPM..

I got accepted to NOVA.

And I will be a Doctor just as my friends in UT medical schools..


NSUCOM
Class of '03