MD & DO Reapplicant: 3.95 GPA, 515 MCAT- Help with school list

[sanfran256]

Edit: Accepted off waitlist!!!

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[GrapesofRath]

Where all did you apply and get IIs at

lack of service and the interviews are probably the most likely areas of weakness. You don't need DO schools just a good list of MD schools with a number of targets you aren't a reapplicant at

 

[sanfran256]

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California
Mayo Medical School
New York Medical College
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
The Ohio State Univ. Coll. of Med.
The University of Vermont College of Medicine
University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix
University of California San Diego
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicin
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

WLed at UCSD, Ohio State, Case Western

 

[LadyPikachuu]

Omg.. I feel like your stats are great for allopathic schools... Now, I'm a bit worried for when I apply, because my stats are/will be nowhere close to yours.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California
Mayo Medical School
New York Medical College
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
The Ohio State Univ. Coll. of Med.
The University of Vermont College of Medicine
University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix
University of California San Diego
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicin
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

WLed at UCSD, Ohio State, Case Western

The caliber of schools that gave you interviews suggests the written parts of your application were up to par. Schools like UCSD dont give IIs to people with weaker written components of their app.

You had about a dozen targets you could go in saying you had a reasonable shot at getting a II at. That's not a bad number. Like I said above my guess is the lack of service and the interviews are most likely to be weaknesses for you.

There are many schools you are a good candidate for you where arent a reapplicant at. Go through MSAR and target schools with an MCAT median around roughly 32 that you arent a reapplicant at which are OOS friendly(ie Oakland, Western Michigan etc). Best bet will probably be with the ones that get <10k apps a year. On your list from last cycle I would probably keep SLU, Jefferson, UIC, U of Arizona, VCU as well as the schools you got IIs from.

 

[sanfran256]

Okay thank you! Should I not reapply to the other schools on my list?

And do you think my extra year of volunteering will make a difference or am I still weak? I will definitely work on my interviewing skills

 

[GrapesofRath]

1) Okay thank you! Should I not reapply to the other schools on my list?

2) And do you think my extra year of volunteering will make a difference or am I still weak? I will definitely work on my interviewing skills

I listed the schools you are a reapplicant at I think your odds will probably be best at. You can include others if you want but Id make sure you have a good solid list of schools you arent a reapplicant at for targets. Some of these higher end schools like Keck, UCLA and Mayo I wouldnt bother with though

2) No way of really knowing, more experience cant hurt though

 

[Faha]

You can add more schools this time around such as:
Tufts
Quinnipiac
Albany
Drexel
Temple
Penn State
Wake Forest
GW
Georgetown
Miami
Tulane
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
Creighton
Roseman (new school taking applicants at some time in the coming cycle)
Unfortunately you need to apply to a lot of schools to maximize your chances for more than 3 interviews. Reapply to all the schools you applied to this time. You could still get off the wait list in the next month.
For DO schools apply to TUCOM-CA, TUNCOM, AZCOM, ATSU-COM, PNWU-COMP and WesternU/COMP. You are competitive for all DO schools.

 

[gyngyn]

The caliber of schools that gave you interviews suggests the written parts of your application were up to par. Schools like UCSD dont give IIs to people with weaker written components of their app.

You had about a dozen targets you could go in saying you had a reasonable shot at getting a II at. That's not a bad number. Like I said above my guess is the lack of service and the interviews are most likely to be weaknesses for you.

There are many schools you are a good candidate for you where arent a reapplicant at. Go through MSAR and target schools with an MCAT median around roughly 32 that you arent a reapplicant at which are OOS friendly(ie Oakland, Western Michigan etc). Best bet will probably be with the ones that get <10k apps a year. On your list from last cycle I would probably keep SLU, Jefferson, UIC, U of Arizona, VCU as well as the schools you got IIs from.

They do if they attended UCSD. 20% of UCSD matriculants attended the undergrad. Only UCD took a greater percentage (22%).

 

[GrapesofRath]

They do if they attended UCSD. 20% of UCSD matriculants attended the undergrad. Only UCD took a greater percentage (22%).

Riverside also is in this category. This can be said of alot of high end public schools: U of Wisconsin, Davis, UCSD even U of Michigan show a significant preference to their undergrads. I think U of Michigan actually automatically gives out IIs to anybody in state(and perhaps from their undergrad also) with above a 3.8+/35+ if Im not mistaken.

Regardless, we can interchange UCSD with CWRU or Ohio St and the point is still the same. 3 IIs at these types of schools means the odds there is something rather off in the written parts of the app arent very high.

 

[gyngyn]

Riverside also is in this category. This can be said of alot of high end public schools: U of Wisconsin, Davis, UCSD even U of Michigan show clear preference to their undergrads.

Regardless, we can interchange UCSD with CWRU or Ohio St and the point is still the same. 3 IIs at these types of schools means the odds there is something rather off in the written parts of the app arent very high.

UCR is, of course, mission based. Of the non-mission-based UC's, UCD and UCSD are the most likely to overlook minor problems. OH State and Case are likely to be more successful with good CA applicants that have a non-numeric blemish or two.

 

[GrapesofRath]

UCR is, of course, mission based. Of the non-mission-based UC's, UCD and UCSD are the most likely to overlook minor problems. OH State and Case are likely to be more successful with good CA applicants that have a non-numeric blemish or two.

UCR is mission based but if Im not mistaken half their class went to UCR undergrad. Those people Im sure fit the mission but so do many who dont get a II so it is an advantage to have done undergrad there.

This is all true about the Ohio schools but the key word really is on minor for potential problems. Even though CWRU is known for having close to 25% of their class be from CA each year, honestly a 515 might be a hair on the lower end for them. I might be a little more sold on the idea of their being minor flaws that they perceived and overlooked if we were talking about a 38 not a 515 in this case.

I havent necessairly seen the same kind of "predilection" per se for CA applicants from Ohio St personally as for CWRU(although it doesnt mean it doesnt exist I just havent seen data for it). I still think the two most likely problems here were probably the interview and total service that was on the lighter end of things, not anything more fundamental or structurally flawed like problematic written components which is the general point.

 

[gyngyn]

UCR is mission based but if Im not mistaken half their class went to UCR undergrad. Those people Im sure fit the mission but so do many who dont get a II so it is an advantage to have done undergrad there.

This is all true about the Ohio schools but the key word really is on minor for potential problems. Even though CWRU is known for having close to 25% of their class be from CA each year, honestly a 515 might be a hair on the lower end for them. I might be a little more sold on the idea of their being minor flaws that they perceived and overlooked if we were talking about a 38 not a 515 in this case.

I havent necessairly seen the same kind of "predilection" per se for CA applicants from Ohio St personally as for CWRU(although it doesnt mean it doesnt exist I just havent seen data for it). I still think the two most likely problems here were probably the interview and total service that was on the lighter end of things, not anything more fundamental or structurally flawed like problematic written components which is the general point.

That's the mission! I'm in agreement. Half the class is reserved for UCR undergrads.
My observations re Case and OH are based on the candidates I've seen accepted over time, not published data, so it is only an impression. Case has a huge class (216). That leaves a lot of room below the median to fill with good candidates. The Ohio state is also very large (191) by CA standards. They do take some CA applicants like OP, but Case takes a lot more.
If OP doesn't get pulled from a waitlist this cycle, I agree that some interview work is indicated in addition to new schools.

 

[GrapesofRath]

That's the mission! I'm in agreement. Half the class is reserved for UCR undergrads.
My observations re Case and OH are based on the candidates I've seen accepted over time, not published data, so it is only an impression. Case has a huge class (216). That leaves a lot of room below the median to fill with good candidates. The Ohio state is also very large (191) by CA standards. They do take some CA applicants like OP, but Case takes a lot more.
If OP doesn't get pulled from a waitlist this cycle, I agree that some interview work is indicated in addition to new schools.

Fair enough about UCR but I guess the point is people from the IE who went to undergrad at UCR are at an advantage vs others from the IE

The discussion about CWRU really just highlights how there are multiple ways to interpret things and Im not saying mine is right by any means. Many schools that take on many CA applicants tend to do so to raiser their MCAT median not lower it and there are tons and tons of the CA research heavy prototype applicant with higher MCAT scores.There's no real way without saying this with any certainty unless you see their 400+ person accepted pile every single year(which perhaps you do), but my guess would be that the types who get in from CA every year with lower stats might tend to bring something else to the class. There are just alot of CA applicants who fit the OP's profile with higher stats that you might need something else to stand out a bit to get an II with a 515.

At the same time my initial gut reaction when I saw these were the 3 schools the OP got IIs at and not schools like SLU, Jefferson, UIC etc was that perhaps they heavily focused on their research in their application so maybe that was what got CWRU's interest after all, 515 not withstanding. If I had to have guess the 3 schools someone who was unsuccessful with a 3.9/34 were, those 3 probably wouldnt have been my first ones ordinarily (although UCSD makes sense if they went there).

 

[gyngyn]

At the same time my initial gut reaction when I saw these were the 3 schools the OP got IIs at and not schools like SLU, Jefferson, UIC etc was that perhaps they heavily focused on their research in their application so maybe that was what got CWRU's interest after all, 515 not withstanding. Those 3 schools ordinarily probably wouldnt have been the 3 I would expect a reapplicant to have gotten interviews at(although UCSD makes sense if they went there).

I see your point.

 

[sanfran256]

I do go to UCSD, I am pretty sure that's the reason I got a II there. I was one of many UCSD students at my (late) interview date

 

[sanfran256]

If I had to have guess the 3 schools someone who was unsuccessful with a 3.9/34 were, those 3 probably wouldnt have been my first ones ordinarily (although UCSD makes sense if they went there).

I do agree with you here. I'm not sure why I didn't get more interviews at the schools I applied to with lower stats. I guess the reason would be lack of community service?

I tried not to make the written parts of my app too research focused. I talked a lot about rugby and my volunteer work at the clinic

 

[gyngyn]

I do go to UCSD, I am pretty sure that's the reason I got a II there. I was one of many UCSD students at my (late) interview date

There has been a lot of waitlist movement at Case. You are wise to prepare, but there is still plenty of hope for this cycle.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I do agree with you here. I'm not sure why I didn't get more interviews at the schools I applied to with lower stats. I guess the reason would be lack of community service?

I tried not to make the written parts of my app too research focused. I talked a lot about rugby and my volunteer work at the clinic

It's hard to speculate with these things. Every school interprets and evaluates applicants rather differently beyond just looking at their specific missions and how applicants fit them. This can sometimes be one downside of calling specific schools for feedback: Ive seen people report feedback that a particular school might find accurate but which probably doesnt reflect the reality of how most schools would look at their app.

While I wouldnt have predicted these 3 as the 3 schools you would get IIs at in and of itself each individual one isnt really surprising. It just highlights a general point that the schools most likely to interview often arent the ones with the lowest stats as they tend to get far more applications.

It is possible some schools like SLU, Jefferson and Davis wanted more service. Perhaps your interviews also could have gone better. But I dont think either of these two are major weaknesses. There are some cases where there isnt really anything in particular to blame.

Sometimes the breaks dont go your way in a very competitive process, particularly when you are from CA. Trying to come up with ways to explain it beyond this sometimes is just forcing things and not particularly accurate. We tend to always want a reason to explain things but the one we are looking for doesnt always exist. Fortunately for you there are a solid number of schools you wont be a reapplicant at that will be good choices next cycle if you arent accepted off any of these waitlists.

 

[sanfran256]

There has been a lot of waitlist movement at Case. You are wise to prepare, but there is still plenty of hope for this cycle.

Thanks for the positivity! Isn't that bad though? If there has already been a lot of movement, I would think they have already given out all of the seats.

 

[sanfran256]

It's hard to speculate with these things. Every school interprets and evaluates applicants rather differently beyond just looking at their specific missions and how applicants fit them. This can sometimes be one downside of calling specific schools for feedback: Ive seen people report feedback that a particular school might find accurate but which probably doesnt reflect the reality of how most schools would look at their app.

While I wouldnt have predicted these 3 as the 3 schools you would get IIs at in and of itself each individual one isnt really surprising. It just highlights a general point that the schools most likely to interview often arent the ones with the lowest stats as they tend to get far more applications.

It is possible some schools like SLU, Jefferson and Davis wanted more service. Perhaps your interviews also could have gone better. But I dont think either of these two are major weaknesses. There are some cases where there isnt really anything in particular to blame.

Sometimes the breaks dont go your way in a very competitive process, particularly when you are from CA. Trying to come up with ways to explain it beyond this sometimes is just forcing things and not particularly accurate. We tend to always want a reason to explain things but the one we are looking for doesnt always exist. Fortunately for you there are a solid number of schools you wont be a reapplicant at that will be good choices next cycle if you arent accepted off any of these waitlists.

Thank you for your input! Do you think the schools I applied to with no II will give me feedback on my application if I called?

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks for the positivity! Isn't that bad though? If there has already been a lot of movement, I would think they have already given out all of the seats.

Not at all.

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you for your input! Do you think the schools I applied to with no II will give me feedback on my application if I called?

Except for some state schools in states with only one medical school, I have found feedback to unsuccessful candidates to be everything from completely useless to actually harmful. At best, you get something vague and open to interpretation (like the old 8 ball).

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thank you for your input! Do you think the schools I applied to with no II will give me feedback on my application if I called?

You're welcome to try. Spend enough time hearing anecdotes on this and you'll hear stories from schools reading off verbatim all the notes they had on you to you over the phone, meeting with you in person, giving you specific input etc. And you'll hear plenty of cases of not getting any feedback or by and large just getting vague and even often just frankly useless talk. Occasionally this might even be detrimental for you. There are certain things it's not easy to tell an applicant like their LORs were a concern or they didn't interview well. This can complicate the level of candor that can be given as well significantly.

But you can try if you want its certainly helped people in the past although my sense this has a better chance of working for people with true state schools. One thing I'll say is if you do get feedback keep in mind it's only one schools interpretations and these things can vary very widely from school to school. I had a friend who got feedback from a school recently with a 3.7/37 and the message was "your gpa was a concern for us it would help to show your academic abilities more". This of course was a top 10 school so it might be valid to them and a more extreme e ample but for 95% of schools nobody is questioning the academics behind 3.7/37.

 

[sanfran256]

Any advice for cutting down this list? I need to get it to < 25 for financial reasons


Out of State:


Ohio State

University of Cincinnati (new)

University of Colorado (new)

University of Vermont

University of Wisconsin- Madison (new)

University of South Florida- Morsani (new)

University of Arizona- Tucson (new)

University of Arizona- Phoenix

SUNY Stony Brook

SUNY Downstate (new)

University of Virginia (new)

University of Michigan (new)

University of Illinois

Indiana University (new)



CA:


UCSD

UCI

UCLA

UCSF



Private:


USC Keck

Emory (new)

University of Miami- Miller (new)

Saint Louis University

Rochester (new)

Tulane (new)

Case Western

Tufts (new)

Temple (new)

Thomas Jefferson

Dartmouth (new)

Einstein

Hofstra (new)

Wake Forest (new)

Mt. Sinai (new)

NYU(new)

Weill Cornell (new)


I know I put a few far reaches on here... is this too top heavy?

 

[GrapesofRath]

From what Ive heard Colorado historically doesnt take many CA applicants. At over 100 OOS apps/matriculant you can do without it regardless.
You have the wrong Wisconsin school. Medical College of Wisc which takes many CA applicants is the one you want not the low yield U of Wisc.
Temple is a pretty low yield option here where youll have to compete with 11k applicants for 100 OOS spots.
Stats are a hair low for Cornell, NYU, Sinai, and Michigan. Keep one or two if you like, but 4 is a bit excessive.
Some of these UC's are going to be pretty low yield as a reapplicant. If you want to keep those OOS top 20 reaches I might remove a few of these you are a reapp
Likewise Keck is not going to be a high yield option as as a reapp.
Indiana has alot of branch campuses a fair amount of their OOS class comes from, it's not the best option for you regardless.
Not sure if there's really a purpose in applying to Vermont as a reapplicant.
I dont think UVA falls under the category of school type most likely to interview you either. 3.9/34 might be a hair on the low end for what they target OOS.
Stony Brook does take a lot of CA applicants but some of those also come through other programs(ie MD/PhD). As a reapplicant, this is another option you could remove.

Delete 2 UCs, 2 top 20's, Vermont, Temple, Keck, Stony Brook, Colorado, UVA and Indiana. That'll get you down to 24.

I counted 13 schools on your list you can go in saying you have a reasonable shot at getting a II for. That's not bad, but as a reapp in CA you can always get that a tiny bit higher. I might swap Hofstra and Emory which probably arent in the category of schools most likely to interview you for some of the MI schools(Western Michigan, Oakland, Wayne St). The first two in particular have shown a tendency to take lots of people from CA.

 

[sanfran256]

Thanks for the advice! I'll skip the MI schools though. I think I would rather go to a DO school closer to home. I'll think about adding MCW (i put U Wisc. because they apparently like students from my undergrad)

And i'll drop Indiana, vermont, colorado, and stony brook.

Why is emory not a good choice for me?

 

[sanfran256]

i'll also delete a few top 20s.

do schools look down on re apps?

 

[gyngyn]

do schools look down on re apps?

If they can afford to, they will consider them "pre-screened." At other schools, they are a good way to increase their median or 90th %ile.

 

[GrapesofRath]

If they can afford to, they will consider them "pre-screened." At other schools, they are a good way to increase their median or 90th %ile.

Do you think there are lower tiers where being a reapplicant there might make them more likely to grant a interview than they would otherwise? Im guessing they would have to be pretty high >90th percentile stats.

Thanks for the advice! I'll skip the MI schools though. I think I would rather go to a DO school closer to home. I'll think about adding MCW (i put U Wisc. because they apparently like students from my undergrad)

And i'll drop Indiana, vermont, colorado, and stony brook.

Why is emory not a good choice for me?

Emory, UVA and Hofstra are ok. It's not like theyll just be automatic donations if you apply there. They accept people with your stats. It's just in terms of schools most likely to interview you, they wouldnt be at the top of my list. 3.9/34 might be a hair on the lower end of what UVA targets OOS. Emory and Hofstra likewise are ok but you are dealing with 90 OOS apps/matriculant at both schools and your stats are average for both. Your goal here was to try to trim this list down by about 10 schools. Hence why I considered recommending taking the ones out that might be less likely to interview you or subbing them with schools that are more likely to interview you. Now, Emory and Hofstra are going to be more likely to interview than the Sinai's and U of Michigan's of the world if that's something you also want to consider.

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think there are lower tiers where being a reapplicant there might make them more likely to grant a interview than they would otherwise? Im guessing they would have to be pretty high >90th percentile stats.

Yes.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Yes.

Would you re-apply to Vermont, U of Arizona Phoenix, NYMC, and VCU in this case then? These arent quite >90th percentile stats but they arent that far off

 

[gyngyn]

Would you re-apply to Vermont, U of Arizona Phoenix, NYMC, and VCU in this case then? These arent quite >90th percentile stats but they arent that far off

Yes to: AZ, NYMC and probably VCU.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Yes to: AZ, NYMC and probably VCU.

I copied their list from last cycle below any others you think being a reapplicant might actually help or that are worth trying as a reapp?
My guess is I would give CWRU Ohio St UCSD (where they got a IIs) SLU, Jefferson, Irvine and UIC another shot as well. Maybe Einstein. Rest Id probably leave.

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California
Mayo Medical School
New York Medical College
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
The Ohio State Univ. Coll. of Med.
The University of Vermont College of Medicine
University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix
University of California San Diego
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicin
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

 

[gyngyn]

Re-ap worthy:
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California
Mayo Medical School
New York Medical College
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Sidney Kimmel Medical College at Thomas Jefferson University
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
The Ohio State Univ. Coll. of Med.
The University of Vermont College of Medicine
University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix
University of California San Diego
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicin
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

If OP doesn't get into Case with all their waitlist movement this year, I can't recommend a re-ap.

 

[gyngyn]

This makes me sad, I loved Case. Is there a reason for this?

What about Ohio State?

Don't be sad, yet. They have gone through a boat-load of waitlisters already. They can see that you are holding nowhere. If you don't make it there this cycle there is not much you can expect from an immediate re-application.
I don't have enough information about OH St. to know how to advise about re-aps.

 

[sanfran256]

..

 

[GrapesofRath]

@gyngyn @GrapesofRath I got accepted at ohio state today, but thanks for your help!!

Yes!! Alls well that ends well congrats enjoy the path ahead that awaits