Reapplicant WAMC

[Walter Raleigh]

I am a White male from New York; looks like I'll be a reapplicant.
Last year, I applied with:

ECs:
820 hours research with 3 poster presentations
400 hours on ambulance corps as attendant
130 hours nonclinical volunteering - mentoring students, soup kitchens, miscellaneous stuff.
50 hours shadowing local doctors - radiology, emergency medicine, physiatry.
1400 hours as triathlete

I now have:

820 hours research with 3 poster presentations
700 hours on ambulance corps as attendant
120 hours ER volunteering
200 hours Habitat for Humanity
600 hours MCAT tutor
70 hours shadowing local doctors - radiology, emergency medicine, physiatry, primary care
1600 hours as triathlete

GPA: 3.60 cGPA and sGPA
MCAT: 130/130/130/130, taken June 2017

School List:
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Columbia
Dartmouth
Harvard
Icahn
New York Medical College
Penn State
UPenn
Rutgers, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY Upstate
Tufts
Yale

Got rejected at Columbia, Tufts, and Rutgers post-II; waitlisted at Upstate.

Is there anything you might suggest for gap year(s)? I want to be loaded for bear the next time around. Do you think I might have more success if I did something like Americorps? How about Peace Corps or Teach for America? I've even heard military service (!) recommended by adcoms before in some unusual circumstances where applicants needed a great deal of redemption for past misdeeds like cheating.

Any school list advice? Do I need DO schools on the list this time around? @Goro, @LizzyM, any comments?

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[Toutie]

Your updated ECs are fine. Your school list was horrible! Half of those schools you had no chance at with your old ECs and will likely have no chance at with your new ECs. A couple reaches are fine, but not half your list!

Make a more reasonable and larger school list (you may have to stretch beyond the New England area) for your stats and really put some extra effort into your PS and secondaries.

You likely would not need any DO's, unless you absolutely do to want to chance a 3rd application cycle.

And...you never know, your waitlist at Upstate may still come through for you.

edit: do you have past misdeeds like cheating?

 

[Walter Raleigh]

No, no IAs whatsoever. @Goro busted out the rockstar list for me, and told me to have some self-esteem a year ago, my first time around. Said my ECs were excellent.

 

[Toutie]

No, no IAs whatsoever. @Goro busted out the rockstar list for me, and told me to have some self-esteem a year ago, my first time around. Said my ECs were excellent.

Well...you didn't cure cancer, win a gold medal, or awarded a purple heart...so you aren't really a rock star. BUT...you're not a one hit wonder either!

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Hmm: I'd need military service to be competitive for top 20 schools, Peace Corps or Teach for America wouldn't cut it? @LizzyM said that if I pursued this route, it'd make a "why medicine" essay harder to write.

 

[Toutie]

No, no IAs whatsoever. @Goro busted out the rockstar list for me, and told me to have some self-esteem a year ago, my first time around. Said my ECs were excellent.

Also...I just looked at @Goro list for you. You chose a high proportion of high tiers and very few of the mid tiers he had on his list. Quite simply your list was too small and not broad enough. Another 5-6 mid tier schools would have helped your chances tremendously. AND...you should try stretch out from the New England area a bit. You don't have to move cross country, but try to move your perimeter out at least 500-600 miles or so.

Again...you still have a chance that Upstate will come through for you.

 

[Goro]

I am a White male from New York; looks like I'll be a reapplicant.
Last year, I applied with:

ECs:
820 hours research with 3 poster presentations
400 hours on ambulance corps as attendant
130 hours nonclinical volunteering - mentoring students, soup kitchens, miscellaneous stuff.
50 hours shadowing local doctors - radiology, emergency medicine, physiatry.
1400 hours as triathlete

I now have:

820 hours research with 3 poster presentations
700 hours on ambulance corps as attendant
120 hours ER volunteering
200 hours Habitat for Humanity
600 hours MCAT tutor
70 hours shadowing local doctors - radiology, emergency medicine, physiatry, primary care
1600 hours as triathlete

GPA: 3.60 cGPA and sGPA
MCAT: 130/130/130/130, taken June 2017

School List:
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Columbia
Dartmouth
Harvard
Icahn
New York Medical College
Penn State
UPenn
Rutgers, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY Upstate
Tufts
Yale

Got rejected at Columbia, Tufts, and Rutgers post-II; waitlisted at Upstate.

Is there anything you might suggest for gap year(s)? I want to be loaded for bear the next time around. Do you think I might have more success if I did something like Americorps? How about Peace Corps or Teach for America? I've even heard military service (!) recommended by adcoms before in some unusual circumstances where applicants needed a great deal of redemption for past misdeeds like cheating.

Any school list advice? Do I need DO schools on the list this time around? @Goro, @LizzyM, any comments?

Something is very wrong where you couldn't get any love from the SUNYs.

I'm amazed that you got an II from RWJ, being that you're a NYer.

Yes, a year off to burnish your ECs would help.

I suspect that the ambulance corps was not as patient centric as you think that it was. Try getting in real patient contact experience, inside something with walls.
Agree that your school list was too small, and too top heavy.
I don't think that you need DO schools for Round 2, just a wider target list. Include more SLU/MCW and Hofstra/Einstein and Keck class schools.

The way you come across the internet has always raised an eyebrow with me, and there is some data out there that the way one is on the internet is the way one is in real life. Given your SDN obsession with insane ECs, something about your personality might have come across to your interviewers in a negative way.

I also suspect that being a triathlete is helpful, but you're not able to seal the deal.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I've got 100 hours of volunteering in the emergency room; do you think that something like Americorps might be helpful to me, especially their national health service corps program? Would you recommend Peace Corps or Teach for America, or is that killing a fly with a sledgehammer there? I could easily get another hundred hours of ER volunteering in. Do those hours with the ambulance corps count as volunteering hours at all, or is it as if I was never there?

 

[Faha]

I suggest a much broader school list if you need to reapply and forget all the reaches.
ALL 4 SUNY's (remember Buffalo is one of your state public schools)
Rochester
Albany
New York Medical College
Hofstra
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Seton Hall
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
George Washington
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
NOVA MD
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
TCU-UNTHSC (new school)
Kaiser
California University

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

The way you come across the internet has always raised an eyebrow with me, and there is some data out there that the way one is on the internet is the way one is in real life.

something about your personality might have come across to your interviewers in a negative way.

Not trying to be (or sound) mean in any way here, but I agree with Goro's quotes above. Your posts here definitely have different certain "style"/affect to them, and I wouldn't be surprised if something similar came across in your interviews (or even essays), as well. If you have anybody that knows you well and will be honest with you, please have them read/reread your application and even practice interviews with you to get some feedback.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Can y'all articulate what's offputting in my affect online here? Could potentially have sunk me.

 

[deleted966008]

I don't want to speak for anyone but I think they are trying to say that you focus too much on "what it takes to get in" and it may come off as disingenuous. Focus on doing what you're passionate about and emphasize that in your interviews (i.e. don't cultivate the mindset that you should go do Teach For America, Peace Corps, etc. because it will help you get into medical school - that's a utilitarian system of decision making that some may potentially find to be troubling in medical practice)

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Thank you.

 

[ciestar]

You’re literally asking about joining the military for the sake of your med school application (which is ridiculous, do NOT join the military unless you WANT to serve). Same with Americorps. If you did your other ECs just for the sake of your app, it shows whether you like it or not. They want dedication, passion, and enthusiasm, not just another box checker.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

It's tough for me to really pin down how to describe it. I definitely agree with above that you post a lot about ECs and, specifically, a lot about "extraordinary" ECs, etc. As other posters have mentioned, maybe you're coming off as disingenuous when writing and/or speaking about your ECs during the cycle.

But your posting style has just always come off as a bit "different" than most people's to me, so I mostly meant to say that maybe you just also have a certain style of speaking/interacting with people that is just also a little bit "different". Then again, perhaps that's just how you decide to post here and it is in no way related to how you interact in real life. That's where getting some honest advice from people who actually interact with you could/would help.

 

[TempuraOreos]

From what I've seen, you come across as having a bit of a one track mind. You tend to ask and post about the same stuff: getting into a top 20 school and crazy ECs . You can do all the crazy ECs that you want but if you lack sincerity, depth, introspection, etc., it doesn't matter.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

It's tough for me to really pin down how to describe it. I definitely agree with above that you post a lot about ECs and, specifically, a lot about "extraordinary" ECs, etc. As other posters have mentioned, maybe you're coming off as disingenuous when writing and/or speaking about your ECs during the cycle.

But your posting style has just always come off as a bit "different" than most people's to me, so I mostly meant to say that maybe you just also have a certain style of speaking/interacting with people that is just also a little bit "different". Then again, perhaps that's just how you decide to post here and it is in no way related to how you interact in real life. That's where getting some honest advice from people who actually interact with you could/would help.

It seems my posting style is different in a bad way, and that this is hard to articulate...and if my personality is like this, this isn't good. Wish I had a more easily articulable problem.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

It seems my posting style is different in a bad way

Actually, I honestly I wouldn’t even go that far. Other than a prolific amount of posts about ECs, there is nothing inherently bad or obnoxious about anything you do on SDN. If you had a tendency to be condescending or abrasive or unempathetic here, for example, it’d be pretty easy consider whether some of that also comes off in your real interactions.
Like most people suggested, I think it’s maybe just the sheer amount of very similar posts about ECs. I think the “different” part to me can best be described as feeling like there is a minor lack of recognizing/picking up on social cues?

 

[puahate]

Tbh i like your internet persona lmao

 

[capriccio]

I looked through your post history and last year you said in multiple threads that you had a 519 MCAT, and then now you switched to saying you have a 520 MCAT: Did you retake a 519 MCAT??

Your list is also EXTREMELY top heavy—I looked at a past thread and Goro himself advised you that it was fine to have top schools, but not to be too top heavy, so you ended up not following his advice. Your stats and ECs were definitely competitive for T20s and the mid to upper-mid tier schools, and you definitely should've gotten love from IS schools, but you needed to cast your net much wider.

To me, on the internet you come off as the quintessential gunner premed. You seem to want to do these amazing ECs for the sake of looking good, not because you like them or would enjoy them. I don't know if that's your true attitude in real life or if SDN just makes you nervous (understandable) because I don't know you personally, but this is how you're coming off to me. The fact that you got interviews at competitive schools means your stats and ECs look good on paper, but I suspect there's something either in your writing or interviews that may be off-putting.

I feel like I already said this in another thread where you commented, but getting into schools isn't just about being the best rockstar you can be, it's also about being genuinely sincere, interested in, and thoughtful about what you have done and how it will make you a better person and physician. If 2 people both do 1000 hours of volunteering, but one of them does it, goes home, and forgets about it beyond recording some hours to put on their application, while the second person does it, goes home, and is able to reflect upon what they've done and learned and conveys it thoughtfully in their application, then I guarantee you the second person will be picked first. Online at least, you are reminding me of the first person in the example.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

You’re literally asking about joining the military for the sake of your med school application (which is ridiculous, do NOT join the military unless you WANT to serve). Same with Americorps. If you did your other ECs just for the sake of your app, it shows whether you like it or not. They want dedication, passion, and enthusiasm, not just another box checker.

A good friend of mine actually suggested military service! Guy's a self-described redneck from West Virginia that later went to Harvard; he didn't serve in the military himself but had close friends who did.

 

[ciestar]

A good friend of mine actually suggested military service! Guy's a self-described redneck from West Virginia that later went to Harvard; he didn't serve in the military himself but had close friends who did.

Regardless, do you WANT to join the military? If so, why?

 

[BRM797]

A good friend of mine actually suggested military service! Guy's a self-described redneck from West Virginia that later went to Harvard; he didn't serve in the military himself but had close friends who did.

This guy is a lying troll! Older post he said he’s from Michigan, California, Oregon and now New York? Please don’t waste your time helping whoever this is

 

[Communitycollegesista]

I have no idea what you can do to better yourself bro, since you have good stats. I honestly cannot see how you did not get into a school with those stats. Maybe you were aiming a bit too low? I would add more top tier schools, i.e. Hopkins, WashU, USC, etc.

 

[907914]

which is ridiculous, do NOT join the military unless you WANT to serve

I had a kid in my unit that joined in his third year of college. When he was a pre-basic (The reserves lets people drill a couple months before they go to basic) he told he that he joined the military as an LPN literally just to boost his medical school application because of his 3.2 GPA. Didn't care that he would be shipped off for 18 months of training in a military setting. He just got back last quarter, is an absolutely terrible soldier and is applying this cycle. 2 years of 'military service as an Army Medic' is how he is describing it. Not technically wrong, but still he is playing the system. People do some silly stuff when they are desperate. I hope ADCOMs can see through it....

 

[Walter Raleigh]

How does it work if he's in the reserves or Guard and attending medical school? Doesn't he have at least one weekend a month and two weeks a year he has to train - at least? Seems like medical school may be the least of his concerns - or put another way, he might well fail out because of his military obligations.

 

[907914]

How does it work if he's in the reserves or Guard and attending medical school? Doesn't he have at least one weekend a month and two weeks a year he has to train - at least? Seems like medical school may be the least of his concerns - or put another way, he might well fail out because of his military obligations.

Commanders can excuse a contract for medical school in the reserves. And my unit has done that many times before. As a medical unit, they understand the value of individuals education and so they waive the contract, in essence.

 

[907914]

But the point is DONT DO IT

 

[EasyEveryoneWouldDoIt]

military service helps because you learn how to lead, take care of one another, and develop other characteristics that medical schools want to see in their students. if you are joining the military just help your medical school application its going to be like any of the other EC you are doing now. it will look good on paper and get you an interview but unless you take something from it and can relate your experiences it won't help you one bit to get that acceptance. you got an interview at columbia which says stats wise you are fine. i would take a year off and get introspective and work on yourself rather than doing something superficial to help your application. why do you want to be a doctor? why medicine?

but as someone who is serving now and who has deployed i don't recommend you joining just to look good for med school adcom. you have 100's of hours doing EC serving others and from your post its doesn't seem like you gained any personal value from it and i don't think military service will change you or affect you the way enough to develop the skills that adcons like to see from people who have served. remember in the military there is a good chance you will deploy and at some point someone's life may depend on you. are you willing to do what it takes to help out a fellow brother/sister in arms because their are your brother/sister in arms or will you be wondering in that situation if what you are doing will get you a bronze or silver star.