Reason for lack of DO Residencies

[kev1n]

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Hi all,

I was trying to search the SDN forums for the reason DOs lack Residencies but was unable to find a solid answer (if anyone finds one, please let me know)

Anyways, is this "lack or less opportunity vs an MD" something that is misunderstood or is it a fact. Being that DOs make up 5-7% (correct me if I am wrong) of the physicians in the U.S. of course there would be a much lower probability for a DO to get a MD Residencies in a MD filled pool. Is the fact that they have a lower probabiliy the reason that people say they have less Residencies opportunities compared to an MD? Or is there another underlying reason.

Thanks i hope someone clears this up for me. =D

 

[theunderdog]

Ok, I will clear up this controversial issue for you. I am only telling the truth, so please no haters.

Well, in general, there are significantly less DOs than MDs. DOs have been around for a long time, but have not reached mainstream eye until in the recent years.

Now, let me address your questions of why DOs are less competitive for MD residencies...

A huge majority of residency directors are old-timers who have MDs. Most tend to look down on the DO degree and stay true to the MD degree by admitting MDs to residency. This is why very fews DOs can obtain a position into a MD residency. You will always find 1 or 2, and these DOs are usually competitive for these MD residencies.

This is especially true for surgical residencies. Think about this long and hard, and you will come to the conclusion that you have never seen a DO surgeon before. Out of my many years of life, I have not seen a single DO surgeon. Hell, I even googled it. It's because most of the surgical residency directors are old-timers who stay true to the MD. They want to continue the tradition of the MD and generally deny DOs a spot into surgical residency.

I don't think anyone can doubt that there is still a stigma with the DO degree. I am not trying to input my personal opinion, but this is general public opinion. I don't think there will be a significant change in the competitiveness of the MDs and DOs until about 1-2 decades later... when those old-timer, traditional MDs die off and are replaced by maybe a DO?

I'll let you decide that.

My source: my father, who is a MD residency director at a large community hospital in NY... and is part of a medical residency organization (to be unnamed)... i know his mindset is influenced by those meetings.

 

[jellibelli]

Ok, I will clear up this controversial issue for you. I am only telling the truth, so please no haters.

Well, in general, there are significantly less DOs than MDs. DOs have been around for a long time, but have not reached mainstream eye until in the recent years.

Now, let me address your questions of why DOs are less competitive for MD residencies...

A huge majority of residency directors are old-timers who have MDs. Most tend to look down on the DO degree and stay true to the MD degree by admitting MDs to residency. This is why very fews DOs can obtain a position into a MD residency. You will always find 1 or 2, and these DOs are usually competitive for these MD residencies.

This is especially true for surgical residencies. Think about this long and hard, and you will come to the conclusion that you have never seen a DO surgeon before. Out of my many years of life, I have not seen a single DO surgeon. Hell, I even googled it. It's because most of the surgical residency directors are old-timers who stay true to the MD. They want to continue the tradition of the MD and generally deny DOs a spot into surgical residency.

I don't think anyone can doubt that there is still a stigma with the DO degree. I am not trying to input my personal opinion, but this is general public opinion. I don't think there will be a significant change in the competitiveness of the MDs and DOs until about 1-2 decades later... when those old-timer, traditional MDs die off and are replaced by maybe a DO?

I'll let you decide that.

My source: my father, who is a MD residency director at a large community hospital in NY... and is part of a medical residency organization (to be unnamed)... i know his mindset is influenced by those meetings.

Although it is hard to get a spot into surgical residency, there ARE DOs that are surgeons. I recently met one in NYC's Bellevue Hospital. It IS very difficult, but it can happen.

😛

 

[Donvb]

Ok, I will clear up this controversial issue for you. I am only telling the truth, so please no haters.

Think about this long and hard, and you will come to the conclusion that you have never seen a DO surgeon before. Out of my many years of life, I have not seen a single DO surgeon. Hell, I even googled it. It's because most of the surgical residency directors are old-timers who stay true to the MD.

LOL Please, people reading this thread, do not take the above, misinformed message as "truth," but rather with a grain of salt 😱 I also did a google search, and found information about numerous Osteopathic general surgeons, plastic surgeons, orthopod surgeons, surgical Osteopathic residencies, etc. Perhaps, the reason you haven't seen a DO surgeon is because there are far less DO's than MD's, and the chance of seeing them is lower than MD's? Although, just because we "have never seen" a DO surgeon, should we assume that they cannot become surgeons... sometimes this forum makes me chuckle I had knee surgery with a DO last year, what do ya know!! So...

I have never had surgery with an MD surgeon, therefore, you should not be an allopathic physician if you desire a residency position in Surgery. I am only telling the "truth."

 

[Sundarban1]

Out of my many years of life, I have not seen a single DO surgeon. Hell, I even googled it.

OMG, this should get SDN post of the year. I almost fell out of my chair. Its not on google, must be true!!

 

[medhacker]

OMG, this should get SDN post of the year. I almost fell out of my chair. Its not on google, must be true!!

Of course it is in google, it is replete with general surgeons DOs, orthopedic surgeons DOs the gamma you wish!, allopathic or osteopathic trained, replete I say, replete!!


P.S. if you wish I will post the google results

 

[raptor5]

Think about this long and hard, and you will come to the conclusion that you have never seen a DO surgeon before.

I know quite a few. Take your pick General, ENT, Neurosurgery. While their numbers are not huge there are about 1700 nationwide.
To the OP. DOs lack residencies due to many issues but the most important are demand, resources available, and funding. First, why create residecies you can't fill? This is currently applies to many primary care (Peds, IM, FM). Plus you don't want to oversaturate the market that will ultimately lead to decreased reimbursement. This is why Derm, Rads, Plastics, and other high paying specialties have few residency spots. Second, where are you going to create the new residency spots? A new program needs a group to start it up, a hospital to contract with, a population and pathology base adequate for training plus a number of speciailty and subspecialties to handle off service rotations. Since the AOA seems intent on granting accreditation to new schools that do not posess tertiary care center contracts or academic hospital affiliations this is hard. Third, Even if these programs can get off the ground and approved by the AOA and the specialty board you still need federal funding. This finite crop of cabbage provides the institution about 100K per year per resident.
A current trend which I hope continues is that of dual approved residencies. Most of these are in Family Medicine although there are a few in other specialties as well. Some of these dual approved programs are affiliated with big academic institution but I feel the only reason many of them are seeking this approval is due to the inability for them to fill their spots with MD grads.
I for one question the quality of many (not all, not most, just many) DO residencies. I have seen a few first hand (family med) and I am unimpressed to say the least. There may be others that have a different opinion and that's fine.

 

[Taus]

Are there a few MD residencies that still don't like DO's? yes
Are there a ton of MD residencies that take DO's? yes
Are there a ton of DO residencies going unfilled every year? yes
Will every graduating DO and MD get a residency? yes
Will everyone graduating MD or DO be a surgeon/derm/ent/etc? HELL NO! ....that takes awesome grades, board scores, letters of rec, etc, no matter what your degree is....

Bottom line...no one is unemployed after graduating from a US med school (MD or DO)...if you don't work your a$$ off in school you may not end up in the specialty that you want...but thats more of your own fault then that of your degree.

As far as having to google DO surgeons, etc...just take a look at the residencies available from the DO schools themselves and you'll see that there are plenty of DO's in all specialties, not even counting the ones who do MD residencies.

Here's PCOM's list of residency positions:

http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html

 

[nrut88]

LOL!!! My dads a DO AND a Otolaryngology/Facial Reconstruction Plastic Surgeon LOL

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Although it is hard to get a spot into surgical residency, there ARE DOs that are surgeons. I recently met one in NYC's Bellevue Hospital. It IS very difficult, but it can happen.

😛

Yep, I've met them, too. There are even *gasp* osteopathic surgical residencies just for do's.

 

[CatsandCradles]

LOL!!! My dads a DO AND a Otolaryngology/Facial Reconstruction Plastic Surgeon LOL

Yup, I shadowed a ENT/Facial too.

She was thinking about dropping the facial and being just an ENT because she was busy enough with ENT.

 

[cfdavid]

Being in Michigan, I can easily find DO orthopeadic, and CT surgeons. I can find DO Cardiologists and most specialties with ease.

I've "played" around even. I've gone to many hospitals' websites, and done physician searches by specialty. Then, I'll scroll down the list of docs. Again, I've seen many DO's in almost all specialties, depending on the hospital.

 

[Sundarban1]

Of course it is in google, it is replete with general surgeons DOs, orthopedic surgeons DOs the gamma you wish!, allopathic or osteopathic trained, replete I say, replete!!


P.S. if you wish I will post the google results

That was mere sarcasm on my part, I laughed at the sheer stupidity of the post. 😀

 

[BMW19]

We have three DO general surgeons that are professors or adjunct faculty at our school. I guess we have the majority of the osteopathic surgeons in the country teaching us!! I feel honored.

B-

That was mere sarcasm on my part, I laughed at the sheer stupidity of the post. 😀

 

[52440]

With a surgical oncologist for a dean, and a large surgical residency program, I get TOO MUCH contact with DO surgeons at DMU!

 

[medhacker]

That was mere sarcasm on my part, I laughed at the sheer stupidity of the post. 😀

oh sure, I know

I was actually replying to the poster who brought google into the equation 👍

 

[dr.z]

Although it is hard to get a spot into surgical residency, there ARE DOs that are surgeons. I recently met one in NYC's Bellevue Hospital. It IS very difficult, but it can happen.

😛

I interviewed with on at TCOM so I know they exist.

 

[Careofme]

THERE ARE PLENTY OF DO SURGEONS!!

I did a rotation at BIDMC/Harvard Boston and was pleasantly surprised to see a DO Orthopedic Surgeon Attending scurrying around the ED one night. Further, the chair of orthopedic surgery at Dartmouth Medical school is a DO. I can find a DO for pretty much every surgical specialty.

Obviously, there are DO surgeons, however, due to the reasons described above they are significantly fewer than MD surgeons. I think once you get into residenty, MD or DO, what really matters most is not where you have come from but where you are going and what you bring to the table - literally!

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i just got done shadowing with a DO plastic surgeon who went directly into an integrated plastics residency. the head of the DMU osteopathic is a DO surgeon. so as above posters said, they do exist.

 

[Medic Of One]

Ok, I will clear up this controversial issue for you. I am only telling the truth, so please no haters.

Well, in general, there are significantly less DOs than MDs. DOs have been around for a long time, but have not reached mainstream eye until in the recent years.

Now, let me address your questions of why DOs are less competitive for MD residencies...

A toast! To making it up as you go along!

 

[Hoberto]

I can help you learn how to use google if you want.

I have met loads of DO surgeons.

 

[vmgopal]

Orthopedic Surgery has TONS of D.O Residencies....and it is a very lucrative field by the way. This specialty fits in well with the musculo-skeletal aspects of the D.O. philosophy.

 

[NRAI2001]

Lets get back to the OP.

Obviously there are many DO surgeons and everyother field, but why is there a general lack of DO residencies and why are most DO residencies considered inferior?