Rebutal to Salberg's insult and demand Forbes to take action

[RetinaTazer]

Dr. Salzberg's insults have generated more than 30,000 viewings and 240 comments (total on the 2 blogs) over less than a week.

It is better to email or contact Forbes editor to express our rage that Forbes has allowed Salzberg to offend our whole profession. Forbes should better make a fair coverage of osteopathic profession standing. A formal apology is not enough.

here are the parts of rebuttals to Dr. Salzberg

[URL removed]
[URL removed]

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[RetinaTazer]

[email protected]

Dear Editor:

I would like to bring to your attention about the 2 blogs posted by Dr. Salzberg on osteopathic medicine. The mispresentation in an insulting manner of osteopathic medicine as a profession has caused an uproar and comments on the blogs over the past few days. I do not know what motives behind the blogs against Osteopathic medicine are? is he trying to get notoriety?

Dr. Salzberg claims to be a scientist in its pure sense and he has definitively not done his home work and research. I acknowledge that DO brand is less known to the public because we only represent 7% of the physician workforce. However, the profession has grown exponentially over the past 3 decades. Currently, 20% of medical students are DO students and that number continues to rise to 25% in 10 years.

He lives in the Ivy League world and disregards the common sense held by the rest of the country. I would like to bring to your attention about the new way of ranking medical schools, not soley based on research. It is based how the schools respond to the needs of the population.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/health/17chen.html
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/06/21/ranking_medical_schools_based_on_their_social_mission/

Also, the MCAT scores or GPAs do not make how good a physician will become and how a person is as reflected in the AAMC's aggregated table of MCAT scores. There are people with less than 14 points of MCAT are enrolled into MD schools and more than 35% of MD students have less than 29 points.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

I am submitting to you an article on osteopathic medicine, well-researched and up-to-date. I hope that Forbes will take action to remedy the incidentary, discriminatory, insulting opinion that Forbes has allowed against 70,000 DOs, 18,000 DO students and the patients they treat. At the present time, there is no more animosity between the MD and DO professions as attested by the facts that Humayun J. Chaudhry, DO, is serving as the president and chief executive officer of the Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States and about 60% of DO graduates participate in the allopathic profession’s Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) residency programs.

I am a testimony of the american dream as i immigrated to the USA at 19 with my english broken into 3 (vietnamese. french and English), osteopathic medicine has given me the opportunity to be where i am now in my career and providing the care to prevent blindness.

If i can be of any further help, feel free to contact me throught email.
I am looking forward to hearing from Forbes.

Sincerely,

Tayson DeLengocky, DO

 

[Osteotastic]

The bottom line is, those of us who have moved on to practice modern evidence (real evidence not joke articles with poor research design) should be able to change our title to MD. I am sick of being lumped in with the minority of DOs. Either that or we need to change to MDO.

 

[RetinaTazer]

censosrhip by Forbes...i posted the letter to the editor on Forbes as above, but it was removed.

Try to be a good doctor and be happy with the DO behind your name...we are growing fast and one day DO brand will be better known.

 

[RetinaTazer]

[URL removed]

 

[Cheshyre]

The bottom line is, those of us who have moved on to practice modern evidence (real evidence not joke articles with poor research design) should be able to change our title to MD. I am sick of being lumped in with the minority of DOs. Either that or we need to change to MDO.

What? If you weren't prepared to wade through the crap when you applied, you didn't do your research. Your own damn fault.

Does it suck to watch people treat your degree like damaged product? Hell yeah. Am I still, at the end of the day, happy as a clam at my DO school? Hell yeah.

 

[Osteotastic]

I am in Residency at an ACGME program. The letters DO are irrelevant to me in my work and practice. I learned neurology in medical school too. I actually use what I learned in neurology. The letters of my degree do not reflect this or any other specialty or modality that I learned in medical school. Why should my degree represent in its entirety a modality I practically never use. The only "Osteopathic" part of my education were those few hours a week that were taught by the faculty of my school that rely on brainwashing young or just plain naive minds into thinking we need to represent our entire profession by this one small and seldom used antiquated portion of it to justify their positions and bloated salaries. All I'm saying is, for God sakes, at least throw an M in there somewhere. I do practice Medicine after all. And some day after graduation or acceptance to med school, hopefully, so will you.

 

[ProtossCarrier]

I am in Residency at an ACGME program. The letters DO are irrelevant to me in my work and practice. I learned neurology in medical school too. I actually use what I learned in neurology. The letters of my degree do not reflect this or any other specialty or modality that I learned in medical school. Why should my degree represent in its entirety a modality I practically never use. The only "Osteopathic" part of my education were those few hours a week that were taught by the faculty of my school that rely on brainwashing young or just plain naive minds into thinking we need to represent our entire profession by this one small and seldom used antiquated portion of it to justify their positions and bloated salaries. All I'm saying is, for God sakes, at least throw an M in there somewhere. I do practice Medicine after all. And some day after graduation or acceptance to med school, hopefully, so will you.

why did you go to a DO school?

 

[JaggerPlate]

why did you go to a DO school?

Apparently, no one warned him that they gave out the D.O. degree!

 

[Osteotastic]

Apparently, no one warned him that they gave out the D.O. degree!

I just love hearing from the intellectual Giants on this board. How bout putting some thought worthy of your medical student status into your retorts k kids.

 

[RetinaTazer]

maybe you can read some essays about the osteopathic philosophy:

[URL removed]

 

[thepoopologist]

I am in Residency at an ACGME program. The letters DO are irrelevant to me in my work and practice. I learned neurology in medical school too. I actually use what I learned in neurology. The letters of my degree do not reflect this or any other specialty or modality that I learned in medical school. Why should my degree represent in its entirety a modality I practically never use. The only "Osteopathic" part of my education were those few hours a week that were taught by the faculty of my school that rely on brainwashing young or just plain naive minds into thinking we need to represent our entire profession by this one small and seldom used antiquated portion of it to justify their positions and bloated salaries. All I'm saying is, for God sakes, at least throw an M in there somewhere. I do practice Medicine after all. And some day after graduation or acceptance to med school, hopefully, so will you.

That is your solution? To change the initials?

 

[RetinaTazer]

there are DMD and DDS, who are just known as dentists. That should be the same for DOs and MDs, we all are physicians period.
No one force you to choose the DO route! just be happy that you are a physician and make DO brand better known.

 

[UserNameNeeded]

That is your solution? To change the initials?

That's the simplest solution. MD,O. There you go!

As the blog author's second blog implies, few people (except old DOs) even use (or even know) the term "allopath" refers to MDs. In public perception and everyday language, MDs are simply "medical doctors" who went to "medical school," and not "allopathic" physicians/students. And, yet, DOs are "osteopaths" that went to "osteopathic school." Where's the medicine in DO?

It's not simply a branding issue, it's an ownership issue. DOs cede their rights (in the court of public opinion) to medicine when they don't have an "M" in their professional initials.

 

[UserNameNeeded]

there are DMD and DDS, who are just known as dentists.

That's because there's 2 D's in both of those initials: one for doctor, one for dentistry.

MD and DO don't share those parallels. MD has to become DA or DO has to become MD,O.

 

[RetinaTazer]

Let's end with paraphrase from president John F Kennedy's a famous quote: "Ask not what your profession can do for you, ask what you can do for your profession."

from [URL removed]

 

[JaggerPlate]

That's the simplest solution. MD,O. There you go!

As the blog author's second blog implies, few people (except old DOs) even use (or even know) the term "allopath" refers to MDs. In public perception and everyday language, MDs are simply "medical doctors" who went to "medical school," and not "allopathic" physicians/students. And, yet, DOs are "osteopaths" that went to "osteopathic school." Where's the medicine in DO?

It's not simply a branding issue, it's an ownership issue. DOs cede their rights (in the court of public opinion) to medicine when they don't have an "M" in their professional initials.

Even though MD degree = Doctor of Medicine, DO degree = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, and DO/MD = medical doctors.

I hate the fact that people think MD stands for 'medical doctor,' because it ALWAYS leads to 'DOs are equivalent to medical doctors,' when what they mean is the doctor of osteopathic medicine degree is equivalent to the doctor of medicine degree. It's funny funny because people naturally assume MD = medical doctor so don't bother researching that aspect when writing their prize winning, online articles.

 

[SFO-IST]

Even though MD degree = Doctor of Medicine, DO degree = Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, and DO/MD = medical doctors.

I hate the fact that people think MD stands for 'medical doctor,' because it ALWAYS leads to 'DOs are equivalent to medical doctors,' when what they mean is the doctor of osteopathic medicine degree is equivalent to the doctor of medicine degree. It's funny funny because people naturally assume MD = medical doctor so don't bother researching that aspect when writing their prize winning, online articles.

I completely agree with the above. That being said, from a branding perspective only, it would seem to be more advantageous to use initials like MDO to convey to an uninformed public what DO's are about.

As this will likely never happen, it's up to DO's to represent the profession well amongst our MD colleagues and educate the public during the rare times when we are asked. Suck it up and carry onwards....

And finally, every DO should write a simple one line email to forbes mentioning their disapproval. It's ten seconds of your life.

 

[basupran]

This thread reminds me of the DNP movement.

 

[JaggerPlate]

This thread reminds me of the DNP movement.

That's blatantly insulting and makes no sense. Care to elaborate?

 

[basupran]

That's blatantly insulting and makes no sense. Care to elaborate?

My apologies- did not mean for my statement to be insulting.

 

[JaggerPlate]

My apologies- did not mean for my statement to be insulting.

Eh, no harm no foul. I thought you were trying to troll or bash DOs or something ... these boards can definitely make people (ie ME) a bit 'knee-jerk' reactionary when it comes to certain things. Just definitely very different situations (DNPs and anything involves physicians, MD or DO).

 

[surag]

Eh, no harm no foul. I thought you were trying to troll or bash DOs or something ... these boards can definitely make people (ie ME) a bit 'knee-jerk' reactionary when it comes to certain things. Just definitely very different situations (DNPs and anything involves physicians, MD or DO).

dont worry about him. He went to a Carribbean school and then transferred out...not exactly in a position to bash DOs...who actually stuck it out to get into American med schools.

 

[JaggerPlate]

dont worry about him. He went to a Carribbean school and then transferred out...not exactly in a position to bash DOs...who actually stuck it out to get into American med schools.

Yeah, I'm aware of his past (or at least what he's shared over the years on SDN), but I don't think he was doing anything to be purposely offensive in this situation. He probably just wasn't aware; now he is, and so I assume there wouldn't be any type of future bias. So 'no harm, no foul.'

 

[drctother]

Yeah, I'm aware of his past (or at least what he's shared over the years on SDN), but I don't think he was doing anything to be purposely offensive in this situation. He probably just wasn't aware; now he is, and so I assume there wouldn't be any type of future bias. So 'no harm, no foul.'

Good for you for not stirring the pot and assuming the better in that person, instead of jumping to negative conclusions as many people on SDN do (myself included somtimes)

Look, apparently the feeling isn't mutual across the threads, but I am DAM proud to have just been accepted into MEDICAL school to practice as a DO. I could care less if pre-MDs or MDs or nurses think less of DO's. If at the end of the day I am helping people and enjoying what Im doing, **** them

 

[JaggerPlate]

Good for you for not stirring the pot and assuming the better in that person, instead of jumping to negative conclusions as many people on SDN do (myself included somtimes)

Look, apparently the feeling isn't mutual across the threads, but I am DAM proud to have just been accepted into MEDICAL school to practice as a DO. I could care less if pre-MDs or MDs or nurses think less of DO's. If at the end of the day I am helping people and enjoying what Im doing, **** them

Lol ... I must be growin' up!

I agree with your second statement as well. It's a huge accomplishment, and we shouldn't ever let that be diminished, nor do I think the 'DO bias' is even in the same universe as people assume it is/claim on SDN sometimes (read: pre-meds).

 

[MightyMoose]

I am in Residency at an ACGME program. The letters DO are irrelevant to me in my work and practice. I learned neurology in medical school too. I actually use what I learned in neurology. The letters of my degree do not reflect this or any other specialty or modality that I learned in medical school. Why should my degree represent in its entirety a modality I practically never use. The only "Osteopathic" part of my education were those few hours a week that were taught by the faculty of my school that rely on brainwashing young or just plain naive minds into thinking we need to represent our entire profession by this one small and seldom used antiquated portion of it to justify their positions and bloated salaries. All I'm saying is, for God sakes, at least throw an M in there somewhere. I do practice Medicine after all. And some day after graduation or acceptance to med school, hopefully, so will you.

From my perspective this is a self-confidence issue. If you really feel like you need new initials that badly then if you got the said initials, you would have other confidence issues. This was the case for many of the DO's that changed their titles to MD's back in the early '60's, because they were still stigmatized as an adopted MD rather than a congenital MD. Then they had nowhere to turn, DO's shunned them and MD's shunned them... You make your own bed...

As far as confidence issues, which is what I believe leads to the feelings of inequality for some DO's and the feelings of superiority by some MD's, they are not all that uncommon in medicine or other fields. If you ended up getting an MD, you would be concerned that your school wasn't as good as Johnny's, or you went Psychiatry and no one thinks you are a 'real' doctor, etc. etc.. There are plenty of stigmas out there, but they really only impact you if you let them. You are in an ACGME program, hopefully doing well, so rest your confidence on your skills and achievements, not on your title.

 

[Instatewaiter]

From my perspective this is a self-confidence issue. If you really feel like you need new initials that badly then if you got the said initials, you would have other confidence issues. This was the case for many of the DO's that changed their titles to MD's back in the early '60's, because they were still stigmatized as an adopted MD rather than a congenital MD. Then they had nowhere to turn, DO's shunned them and MD's shunned them... You make your own bed...

As far as confidence issues, which is what I believe leads to the feelings of inequality for some DO's and the feelings of superiority by some MD's, they are not all that uncommon in medicine or other fields. If you ended up getting an MD, you would be concerned that your school wasn't as good as Johnny's, or you went Psychiatry and no one thinks you are a 'real' doctor, etc. etc.. There are plenty of stigmas out there, but they really only impact you if you let them. You are in an ACGME program, hopefully doing well, so rest your confidence on your skills and achievements, not on your title.

As a tangent, let's be honest here, psychiatry isnt really medicine. It is a specialty that is so dissimilar to every other specialty that it should belong in its own category. For years I have thought that psychiatry should belong in its own little category kind of like Dentistry or Podiatry do. They should have specialized psychiatry schools where you can skip a lot of the less needed med school classes and focus more on psych stuff. I think it's strange that we force psychiatrists to go through all of med school just to pursue something where they will use almost nothing that they learned during school.

This is not to look down on psychiatrists. I could never do what they do; I just don't have the patience and am not even keeled enough to sit there while someone whined about their life. I'd be like the psychiatrist from the Geico commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA).

 

[Dr Oops]

As a tangent, let's be honest here, psychiatry isnt really medicine. It is a specialty that is so dissimilar to every other specialty that it should belong in its own category. For years I have thought that psychiatry should belong in its own little category kind of like Dentistry or Podiatry do. They should have specialized psychiatry schools where you can skip a lot of the less needed med school classes and focus more on psych stuff. I think it's strange that we force psychiatrists to go through all of med school just to pursue something where they will use almost nothing that they learned during school.

This is not to look down on psychiatrists. I could never do what they do; I just don't have the patience and am not even keeled enough to sit there while someone whined about their life. I'd be like the psychiatrist from the Geico commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA).

Like a clinical psychologist for instance?

 

[JaggerPlate]

As far as confidence issues, which is what I believe leads to the feelings of inequality for some DO's and the feelings of superiority by some MD's, they are not all that uncommon in medicine or other fields. If you ended up getting an MD, you would be concerned that your school wasn't as good as Johnny's, or you went Psychiatry and no one thinks you are a 'real' doctor, etc. etc.. There are plenty of stigmas out there, but they really only impact you if you let them. You are in an ACGME program, hopefully doing well, so rest your confidence on your skills and achievements, not on your title.

I agree 100% with this statement. Medicine is FILLED with attitudes/egos, and you'll honestly find bias anywhere you go. It doesn't matter if it boils down to degree, field, where you practice, etc, etc, there is always going to be someone who believes their CV is superior. Frankly, I think this attitude kind of hurts docs as a whole when it comes to banding together and fighting against certain issues like the DNP movement. However, like you said earlier, you should just be aware of the egos, remember why you got into this game, and just laugh it off when you come across it.

 

[surag]

I agree 100% with this statement. Medicine is FILLED with attitudes/egos, and you'll honestly find bias anywhere you go. It doesn't matter if it boils down to degree, field, where you practice, etc, etc, there is always going to be someone who believes their CV is superior. Frankly, I think this attitude kind of hurts docs as a whole when it comes to banding together and fighting against certain issues like the DNP movement. However, like you said earlier, you should just be aware of the egos, remember why you got into this game, and just laugh it off when you come across it.

Yeah...I mean look at the issues in Baltimore or Pittsburgh. Just recently they fired a hopkins trained cardiologist for screwing over some 180 patients by giving them absolutely unnecessary stents. I mean, he may have been the biggest dick to an DO he came across (hypothetically) but who's laughing now? I'd rather be the guy who barely matched into DO residency than him at this point. In pittsburgh a liver transplant guy was fired for doing a similar thing (transplants for patients who ddnt need them) and is in a similar situation now (this happened 2 years ago)...its like this everywhere.

I'll take my integrity suite with me than a name anyday.