Receiving mid-year intern offers in Australia

[kudou1]

Hi, I have a question that has been on my mind for some time...
I understand that intern year has started in Australia, and that even the Late Vacancy Management Process (LVM) to fill up intern vacancies in Australia has ended on 20 Feb. And on top of that, there aren't mid-year intakes for interns in Australia.
However, I have heard of cases among my seniors and batchmates whereby as and when intern positions become vacant halfway through the intern year when existing interns leave their current positions for various reasons (e.g. better offers elsewhere, depression, personal issues etc.), the health facilities involved might look into filling those vacancies by offering them to any remaining candidates in their pool.
I'd like to hear more about this from anyone who has a personal experience in this or who knows of such cases that has happened before to any of their peers. Do such cases occur fairly often?

P.S. I'm a graduate from Monash Malaysia who has yet to receive any intern offers in Australia.

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[pitman]

This does happen every year, for all sorts of reasons. In Queensland, one reason is that N. Americans leave for home after getting a spot there in the first half of the year. The result is that the hospital and health district can leave the opening unfilled or fill it pretty much however they want to (they're not bound by the Ballot rules). It's therefore difficult knowing when opportunities arise, aside from emailing/phoning individual hospitals to let them know that you are available so that they can contact you directly if a spot opens up.

 

[lyndal]

As pitman has said. I personally know five Canadians who are Australian interns who have just last week also received offers in the 2015 CARMS match (UOW represent!) who are likely to leave their Australian internship positions and head home. I would expect these positions will need to be filled at some stage.

 

[qldking]

As pitman has said. I personally know five Canadians who are Australian interns who have just last week also received offers in the 2015 CARMS match (UOW represent!) who are likely to leave their Australian internship positions and head home. I would expect these positions will need to be filled at some stage.

I actually think this reflects very poorly on internationals. It's only going to make the anti-international students argument/contingent claims even stronger when people are throwing away internships and I worry that it is acts such as this that may lead to dissolution of the CMI initiative.

 

[lyndal]

I can't say its an ideal situation, but I certainly can empathise.

 

[qldking]

Sure but for those who don't believe internationals need to be accommodated with internship positions and for those fighting for all med graduates to receive internship offers, it produces a very poor reflection upon medical students and international medical student advocates. Also the Canadians are the wealthiest and most calculating of the internationals and least needing of the internships financially/careerwise.

 

[LAtoDavis]

I actually think this reflects very poorly on internationals. It's only going to make the anti-international students argument/contingent claims even stronger when people are throwing away internships and I worry that it is acts such as this that may lead to dissolution of the CMI initiative.

What is the CMI initiative, if you don't mind?

 

[qldking]

Commonwealth Medical Internships--internship created by private hospitals in conjunction with public hospitals to train around 100 international students a year who do not gain a position via the ballot system (which is the majority of internationals). It was a huge effort by the federal government and was raised daily by Australian Medical Student Association in order for it to be finally passed, signed, sealed, and delivered.

Canadians ditching these federally funded position to go back home clearly harms the argument of the Medical Association in support of internationals receiving internships here and will likely lead to a dissolution of the CMI initiative within 1-3 years.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Sure but for those who don't believe internationals need to be accommodated with internship positions and for those fighting for all med graduates to receive internship offers, it produces a very poor reflection upon medical students and international medical student advocates. Also the Canadians are the wealthiest and most calculating of the internationals and least needing of the internships financially/careerwise.

This is flat out wrong. It is extremely difficult to match in Canada as a Canadian IMG. I know because I'm married to one and we looked into the process.

 

[qldking]

They still have more advantages than any other cohort of internationals.

 

[lyndal]

Also the Canadians are the wealthiest and most calculating of the internationals and least needing of the internships financially/careerwise.

They still have more advantages than any other cohort of internationals.

Sigh.
Because clearly every Canadian applicant is exactly the same and they can all be obviously lumped into exactly the same judgemental generalisations simply because you say so.
You really are more provocative than constructive on most threads, aren't you.

 

[qldking]

Well I just remember the Canadians having their education paid in full by their family and being set up with nice apartments on the river. I don't think it's fair that they can gain internship positions over others simply because they possess the financial means to travel to the hospitals and brown-nose the recruitment folks and to undertake overseas rotations to try to improve their CV while others have to balance work with medical school. And then on top of it for them to leave their internship midyear (which could have gone to someone else who actually needed the position and may had to leave the country to secure an internship position) is lacking in integrity and simply deceiful, in my opinion.

That is my opinion, however. I was not privileged though and I had to work 15-20 weeks while in medical school. I suppose others can find ways to justify these actions.

 

[pitman]

It's only going to make the anti-international students argument/contingent claims even stronger when people are throwing away internships and I worry that it is acts such as this that may lead to dissolution of the CMI initiative.

Going to make? This was a cause of resentment going back to the last decade (and discussed ad nauseam at UQ, if you went there), as this is nothing new. And that's precisely why the CMI contracts come with the clause requiring those who skip out to pay the Commonwealth back (something on the order of $130k last I checked)!

I'm on the record for saying that I don't see how the penalty could be enforced if the doc just gets up and leaves the country, but aside from any shaming (if the perp's parents have any morals, while a N. American medical board might not look kindly on it), such an unpaid debt would make it impossible for him or her ever to return to Australia.

 

[qldking]

Going to make? This was a cause of resentment going back to the last decade (and discussed ad nauseam at UQ, if you went there), as this is nothing new. And that's precisely why the CMI contracts come with the clause requiring those who skip out to pay the Commonwealth back (something on the order of $130k last I checked)!

I'm on the record for saying that I don't see how the penalty could be enforced if the doc just gets up and leaves the country, but aside from any shaming (if the perp's parents have any morals, while a N. American medical board might not look kindly on it), such an unpaid debt would make it impossible for him or her ever to return to Australia.

Yes but as far as I am aware the CMI initiative is only 2 years old now---it won't last much longer if graduates simply use it as a dumping ground.

 

[pitman]

You seem to be assuming that those bailing are predominately CMI contracted. If they got their jobs through the state ballots, then the CMI penalty clause could be working as a deterrent, and the program may instead expand to help solve the problem.

 

[qldking]

Well then, what are the figures?

 

[pitman]

Well, stop assuming, as there has been no information provided to suggest that CMI candidates are bailing.

 

[sh5678]

This does happen every year, for all sorts of reasons. In Queensland, one reason is that N. Americans leave for home after getting a spot there in the first half of the year. The result is that the hospital and health district can leave the opening unfilled or fill it pretty much however they want to (they're not bound by the Ballot rules). It's therefore difficult knowing when opportunities arise, aside from emailing/phoning individual hospitals to let them know that you are available so that they can contact you directly if a spot opens up.

Do you guys know if there are any consequences to leaving the australian internship halfway thru? like fees or contract violations or somethin

 

[sean80439]

Do you guys know if there are any consequences to leaving the australian internship halfway thru? like fees or contract violations or somethin

You screw other international people over. Don't do it.

 

[lymphocyte]

Do you guys know if there are any consequences to leaving the australian internship halfway thru? like fees or contract violations or somethin

It's a job. People leave for lots of reasons. Some people even come back. You'd have to explain why you left though.

There might be fees if you take a job specifically through the Junior Doctor Training Program, but they'll tell you about it ahead of time. Generally, you can quit at any time with no fees, etc.

You will screw a lot of people if you do leave, including your colleagues who will have to cover your absence. This is much worse in a small or rural hospital. There will also be reputational harm, and medicine is a very small world.

Are you at Ochsner? You can always PM me if you have any specific questions.