Recovering opioid addict with big dreams. What are my obstacles?

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mtotps

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I was reading through old threads of potential med school applicants who identified themselves as recovering addicts, looking for information as to what to expect for myself. I first read the really old posts from the mid-2000's; people's responses were disheartening, to say the least. Of course its 2018, and its fair to say that addiction is not seen as a defect of moral character to the same degree as it was back then. I think the more recent threads I read through demonstrate this, and it is heartwarming to see the progress that has been made. That being said, of course addiction would still be a big red flag when deciding whether to accept an applicant to med school for obvious reasons. I want to mention a bit about my situation, since I am not sure that any one thread is adequately similar to my history.

I began using a legal herbal opiate daily at the end of high school, continuing into college. I did quite well my first semester, after that there is some rocky up and down which correlates to me trying to quit and different obstacles that got in the way (a jaw surgery where I was prescribed opioids, for example). Without divulging too much detail, I ended up withdrawing to get treatment, and was granted relief from my last semester. By this time, I had been using very strong opioids multiple times a day for 4-6 weeks. The withdrawal was primarily for depression (at the time), but dealt with addiction as well. I did not truly comprehend the gravity of my addiction until I went to treatment. All of my attempts to get help were not coerced and completely voluntary, and I have never been in trouble with the law or with my school. I did not "party" with drugs, I did them alone as a way to cope with depression.

It might sound like I am minimizing my addiction- that is because I am. To be clear, I do not think that the fact that I used a legal herb the majority of the time, that I generally didn't do things that would have attracted police attention, or that I was (relatively) honest about my addiction to family and doctors makes me any less of an addict that anyone else in my personal opinion. However, given the way addiction is still viewed (its hard to not judge morality), I wonder if these aspects of my story may reduce the size of the red flag to adcoms, so to speak. In other threads, I have seen people ask the OP about whether they broke laws, etc. I assume the thinking is that if someone is willing to forge prescriptions for themselves, for example, then when they get an actual license to prescribe they will be that much more likely to abuse the privileges than an addict that has never forged them. I personally believe that under the right circumstances, addicts (including myself) are capable of things we would never imagine possible, even during previous phases of active addiction. In my opinion, my not having done something in the past does next to nothing to predict whether I would do that thing if I were to relapse. Of course, my opinion is not the one that matters.

I have just come back and am sitting at a GPA around 3.2-3.5, which I hope to get higher now that I go to class consistently and sober. I am actively engaging in my recovery, and attend 12-step meetings multiple times a week. I am completely abstinent from all substances and am past my first year sober.

I know that maybe technically I can get away with not mentioning addiction specifically anywhere on my application. I don't think I can bring myself to do that though. Honesty is a huge part of my recovery, and not mentioning it would be against my conscience.

If I were to have a 3.8+ gpa, and score >93th percentile on the MCAT along with the rest of the things that usually make one an otherwise strong applicant, is there anything in my story that might be a mitigating factor where I would otherwise be rejected? I know it is kind of ludicrous that part of my strength as an applicant in recovery would lie in the potential misconceptions adcoms' might have about addicts. I do not mean to be condescending to them; even as an addict I have trouble letting go of misconceptions I hold about addicts, including myself.

Please excuse grammatical/spelling errors and the kind of weird tone, I have not slept well the past few nights! I would be very grateful for any feedback, positive or negative, especially from those who are particularly qualified!!

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Is there any reason schools would HAVE to know that you have struggled with addiction? Assuming you do reinvent your GPA and get a good MCAT score, then your reason for withdrawing is not particularly that important. You could probably keep it general (struggled with depression, made poor decisions during undergrad) but then show how you are now a strong applicant. I don't think that this necessarily would be dishonest. Many applicants have probably gotten away with doing stupid/illegal things that could be seen as worse than your situation. The fact that you are taking active steps in your recovery is being more honest to yourself than the majority of us probably are.

If you do have to talk about your addiction, then I am not sure how it would be viewed by adcoms. I think that it would mostly come down to the particular bias of the adcom at a given school. So, my advice in that situation would be to get great grades, get a good MCAT score, and apply broadly to limit the chance that your whole school list tosses your app because of your history.
 
Maybe I can get to a place where I feel comfortable not mentioning the addiction initially, but right now the idea of doing that seems disingenuous and wrong. I guess I will have to give it a lot of thought. The question is more of when I reveal that history I guess. If I am accepted, I want to inform them so I can get set up with the state's physician health program. I would also probably voluntarily go on vivitrol again. I know those aren't much, but they are the only safeguards available. Can I be denied admission after being accepted if I inform them of my history in order to join the physician health program?

Thank you for your response, by the way. I really appreciate your feedback.
 
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You are at risk of relapsing for the rest of your life. This makes you a risk to medical schools and admissions is all about med schools minimizing their risk of problems with students. Focus on getting in on your own merits and not trying to use your addiction for sympathy points.

Do not mention it period.
 
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You are at risk of relapsing for the rest of your life. This makes you a risk to medical schools and admissions is all about med schools minimizing their risk of problems with students. Focus on getting in on your own merits and not trying to use your addiction for sympathy points.

Do not mention it period.
I understand this. The question at the core of my post was asking: to what degree are the disqualifying effects of past substance abuse history related to just the potential risk of relapse in isolation, versus the usual accompanying things like a criminal record?

As for the second part of your post, I am not really sure how you draw that conclusion. My whole post is based on the understanding that addiction is a very bad thing for my application, and is simply asking if not having a record and having a somewhat better GPA at my worst compared to other addicts lightens the hit to my chances in any meaningful way. I certainly do not expect sympathy for overcoming an obstacle I placed in my own way.

The only line I can imagine you might interpret that way is the bit about depression. I only mention it to say that:
1. I withdrew with the primary intention of getting help for depression, not necessarily addiction at the time. This would be important if asked why I withdrew.
2. I was never the "wild" type that liked to party, cause disruptions to others, etc. to combat any sort of stereotype.

Thanks for your feedback
 
Don’t mention it.
Get into med school.
Don’t go into anesthesia.
Live the rest of your life in peace.
Part of depression is self-sabotage. You were fortunate enough/smart enough not to get in trouble with the law. Leave your suffering in the past and move on with a clean slate.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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I understand this. The question at the core of my post was asking: to what degree are the disqualifying effects of past substance abuse history related to just the potential risk of relapse in isolation, versus the usual accompanying things like a criminal record?

As for the second part of your post, I am not really sure how you draw that conclusion. My whole post is based on the understanding that addiction is a very bad thing for my application, and is simply asking if not having a record and having a somewhat better GPA at my worst compared to other addicts lightens the hit to my chances in any meaningful way. I certainly do not expect sympathy for overcoming an obstacle I placed in my own way.

The only line I can imagine you might interpret that way is the bit about depression. I only mention it to say that:
1. I withdrew with the primary intention of getting help for depression, not necessarily addiction at the time. This would be important if asked why I withdrew.
2. I was never the "wild" type that liked to party, cause disruptions to others, etc. to combat any sort of stereotype.

Thanks for your feedback

1) Med school is a furnace that breaks even healthy people
2) Thus, the risk of relapse is first and foremost on our minds as Adcom members
3) You are also competing against people who don't' have such a huge red flag in their backgrounds.
4) We also understand now that addiction is a brain disease; hence the idea that one is committing crimes of moral turpitude don't apply here.

What exactly is a legal herbal opiate?
 
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Don’t mention it.
Get into med school.
Don’t go into anesthesia.
Live the rest of your life in peace.
Part of depression is self-sabotage. You were fortunate enough/smart enough not to get in trouble with the law. Leave your suffering in the past and move on with a clean slate.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile


easy peasy....
 
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Disclose and you won't get into medical school. There are far too many applicants who will not get admitted (>90% of the applicants to any given school) to take a chance on someone who is high risk and a recovering opiod addict would be considered high risk.

Do not disclose, and you might have a shot at getting in. This would depend on everything else on your application: grades, scores, activities, recommendations.

Because you were never in trouble with the law or your school, you are under no obligation to disclose anything on your application.

The equation is simple and the ball is in your court.
 
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I was reading through old threads of potential med school applicants who identified themselves as recovering addicts, looking for information as to what to expect for myself. I first read the really old posts from the mid-2000's; people's responses were disheartening, to say the least. Of course its 2018, and its fair to say that addiction is not seen as a defect of moral character to the same degree as it was back then. I think the more recent threads I read through demonstrate this, and it is heartwarming to see the progress that has been made. That being said, of course addiction would still be a big red flag when deciding whether to accept an applicant to med school for obvious reasons. I want to mention a bit about my situation, since I am not sure that any one thread is adequately similar to my history.

I began using a legal herbal opiate daily at the end of high school, continuing into college. I did quite well my first semester, after that there is some rocky up and down which correlates to me trying to quit and different obstacles that got in the way (a jaw surgery where I was prescribed opioids, for example). Without divulging too much detail, I ended up withdrawing to get treatment, and was granted relief from my last semester. By this time, I had been using very strong opioids multiple times a day for 4-6 weeks. The withdrawal was primarily for depression (at the time), but dealt with addiction as well. I did not truly comprehend the gravity of my addiction until I went to treatment. All of my attempts to get help were not coerced and completely voluntary, and I have never been in trouble with the law or with my school. I did not "party" with drugs, I did them alone as a way to cope with depression.

It might sound like I am minimizing my addiction- that is because I am. To be clear, I do not think that the fact that I used a legal herb the majority of the time, that I generally didn't do things that would have attracted police attention, or that I was (relatively) honest about my addiction to family and doctors makes me any less of an addict that anyone else in my personal opinion. However, given the way addiction is still viewed (its hard to not judge morality), I wonder if these aspects of my story may reduce the size of the red flag to adcoms, so to speak. In other threads, I have seen people ask the OP about whether they broke laws, etc. I assume the thinking is that if someone is willing to forge prescriptions for themselves, for example, then when they get an actual license to prescribe they will be that much more likely to abuse the privileges than an addict that has never forged them. I personally believe that under the right circumstances, addicts (including myself) are capable of things we would never imagine possible, even during previous phases of active addiction. In my opinion, my not having done something in the past does next to nothing to predict whether I would do that thing if I were to relapse. Of course, my opinion is not the one that matters.

I have just come back and am sitting at a GPA around 3.2-3.5, which I hope to get higher now that I go to class consistently and sober. I am actively engaging in my recovery, and attend 12-step meetings multiple times a week. I am completely abstinent from all substances and am past my first year sober.

I know that maybe technically I can get away with not mentioning addiction specifically anywhere on my application. I don't think I can bring myself to do that though. Honesty is a huge part of my recovery, and not mentioning it would be against my conscience.

If I were to have a 3.8+ gpa, and score >93th percentile on the MCAT along with the rest of the things that usually make one an otherwise strong applicant, is there anything in my story that might be a mitigating factor where I would otherwise be rejected? I know it is kind of ludicrous that part of my strength as an applicant in recovery would lie in the potential misconceptions adcoms' might have about addicts. I do not mean to be condescending to them; even as an addict I have trouble letting go of misconceptions I hold about addicts, including myself.

Please excuse grammatical/spelling errors and the kind of weird tone, I have not slept well the past few nights! I would be very grateful for any feedback, positive or negative, especially from those who are particularly qualified!!
Any history of arrests for possession?
 
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on a separate note, good for you for working through your addiction and still wanting to help others with their own illnesses. I'm sure there have been times the hardship felt unbearable, and no matter what admissions committees think of you (frankly I wouldn't share the depression/addiction story), you should recognize your strength and feel extremely proud of every day you remain sober.
 
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I understand this. The question at the core of my post was asking: to what degree are the disqualifying effects of past substance abuse history related to just the potential risk of relapse in isolation, versus the usual accompanying things like a criminal record?

As for the second part of your post, I am not really sure how you draw that conclusion. My whole post is based on the understanding that addiction is a very bad thing for my application, and is simply asking if not having a record and having a somewhat better GPA at my worst compared to other addicts lightens the hit to my chances in any meaningful way. I certainly do not expect sympathy for overcoming an obstacle I placed in my own way.

The only line I can imagine you might interpret that way is the bit about depression. I only mention it to say that:
1. I withdrew with the primary intention of getting help for depression, not necessarily addiction at the time. This would be important if asked why I withdrew.
2. I was never the "wild" type that liked to party, cause disruptions to others, etc. to combat any sort of stereotype.

Thanks for your feedback

It doesn’t matter that you conducted yourself well while an addict and didn’t rob 7/11 to score heroin and get you kid taken to CPS because you were passed out in a crackhouse. Obviously your situation is better. But it doesn’t matter because you should never mention it.

Let me be clear. Never mention this to adcoms. Never mention it once you are in school. Never tell your classmates. Never talk about it ever again with anyone other than your family and your doctors.

It’s not because we will look down on you or think you are an irredeemable deviant. You are going to become a doctor with the ability to obtain opiates extremely easily. I am sorry, but I think if you want to do this, you have to play this close to the chest. If you are unable to do this and think not shouting it from the rooftops will increase your chance of relapse, I think you may need to think about whether becoming an MD is the right career choice for you. The most important thing is doing everything possible to make sure that you never ever relapse.
 
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If you mention that you’re an addict, then your app is immediately going into the trash.


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Opiate.
im.jpg
 
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Don’t mention it.
Get into med school.
Don’t go into anesthesia.
Live the rest of your life in peace.
Part of depression is self-sabotage. You were fortunate enough/smart enough not to get in trouble with the law. Leave your suffering in the past and move on with a clean slate.

Wow, I found this extremely profound. Definitely has got me thinking. Thank you so much.

1) Med school is a furnace that breaks even healthy people
2) Thus, the risk of relapse is first and foremost on our minds as Adcom members
3) You are also competing against people who don't' have such a huge red flag in their backgrounds.
4) We also understand now that addiction is a brain disease; hence the idea that one is committing crimes of moral turpitude don't apply here.

What exactly is a legal herbal opiate?

Sorry, I switched where I should have used "opioid" and "opiate" in that paragraph. It is an herbal opioid.

Any history of arrests for possession?

None.

It doesn’t matter that you conducted yourself well while an addict and didn’t rob 7/11 to score heroin and get you kid taken to CPS because you were passed out in a crackhouse. Obviously your situation is better. But it doesn’t matter because you should never mention it.

Let me be clear. Never mention this to adcoms. Never mention it once you are in school. Never tell your classmates. Never talk about it ever again with anyone other than your family and your doctors.

It’s not because we will look down on you or think you are an irredeemable deviant. You are going to become a doctor with the ability to obtain opiates extremely easily. I am sorry, but I think if you want to do this, you have to play this close to the chest. If you are unable to do this and think not shouting it from the rooftops will increase your chance of relapse, I think you may need to think about whether becoming an MD is the right career choice for you. The most important thing is doing everything possible to make sure that you never ever relapse.

This makes a lot of sense, especially that last bit. It is also not just about me, but also about putting my patients at risk. Another thing I will have to spend a long time thinking about. I really appreciate this insight.

Is it likely I will ever be asked directly about past drug abuse history? Either in an application or an interview.

I am very thankful for everyone's help!
 
Wow, I found this extremely profound. Definitely has got me thinking. Thank you so much.

Sorry, I switched where I should have used "opioid" and "opiate" in that paragraph. It is an herbal opioid.

Is it likely I will ever be asked directly about past drug abuse history? Either in an application or an interview.
OK, what is a legal herbal opioid???

I can't imagine why any interviewer would ever bring up addition/drug use in an interview unless it's somehow mentioned in your file. Just reaching for an example, an LOR writer mentioning "mtotps has come so far since his/her days as a drug abuser"
 
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I would hold off on applying to school for 3-4 years and work on your application, ie good score, GPA, and extraordinary EC activities. I like how most posters have said you have a chance to start with a clean slate. If you can build your story for 3-4 years and show your commitment to medicine and steer away from your backstory, you definitely can achieve whatever your goals are.

The biggest concern is relapsing as others have mentioned. So you really need to show yourself, not the adcoms, that you really are clean and ready to give your life to medicine.
 
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I also really want to know wtf is a 'legal herbal opioid'.
 
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Something else to consider is your motivation to go into medicine, specifically medical school. Aside from what admissions might think of your history, it is important to understand that med school is often more difficult than pleasant. Everyone "knows" med school is hard, but they really don't unless they go through it themselves because everyone tolerates it differently.

Personally, med school was the hardest time of my life to date. It wasn't just the hours, but the sense of not being good enough and not accomplishing enough while everyone else seemed to be doing just fine. Mental health is still not openly discussed among health professionals and while there is a culture to change that, it is slow. When I started my clinical years, I entered a couple months of depression. In retrospect, I should've seeked help, but did not. I considered dropping out of med school seriously for a period of time. Luckily I had a strong support system and eventually I made it through. The combination of long clinical hours, not having weekends to recover, constantly studying for shelfs after these long hours, and a lack of real patient impact to make it seem worth it is what started my depression.

The reason I'm sharing this is that I "knew" med school would be hard, but I didn't really know until I went though it. And with a history of addiction, there is a chance to relapse should the situation be unbearable while sober. This is something to consider because med school is expensive, stressful, and not for everyone.

P.S. - I am happy to have gone through med school and be a physician. I now know how to cope and how to avoid such debilitating depression, but I honestly not sure that experience was worth it because some days got really dark.
 
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OK, what is a legal herbal opioid???

I can't imagine why any interviewer would ever bring up addition/drug use in an interview unless it's somehow mentioned in your file. Just reaching for an example, an LOR writer mentioning "mtotps has come so far since his/her days as a drug abuser"

I also really want to know wtf is a 'legal herbal opioid'.

There is something out there called Kratom that the FDA has slapped a warning on and is calling it an opiate.
 
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on a separate note, good for you for working through your addiction and still wanting to help others with their own illnesses. I'm sure there have been times the hardship felt unbearable, and no matter what admissions committees think of you (frankly I wouldn't share the depression/addiction story), you should recognize your strength and feel extremely proud of every day you remain sober.

Thank you, that is very kind of you! I feel grateful when I wake up every morning knowing I don't have to live the way I did.

OK, what is a legal herbal opioid???

I can't imagine why any interviewer would ever bring up addition/drug use in an interview unless it's somehow mentioned in your file. Just reaching for an example, an LOR writer mentioning "mtotps has come so far since his/her days as a drug abuser"

It is called Kratom. DEA filed an intent to emergency schedule it last year but was withdrawn a month later after a lot of public backlash. There's some research going on to model new opioid medications using mitragynine (the alkaloid in it) as a template. It seems to have a significantly lower abuse liability and danger of overdose than prescription opioids at equianalgesic doses, and this was my experience with it as well. I feel like I never definitively knew what a craving was until I used stronger opioids; I had them without really knowing it at the time, as they were so subtle compared to the strong stuff. It is, however, very dangerous as a gateway in my experience. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be scheduled any time soon.

My transcript will have a medical withdrawal on it so I guess I will have to think about how to explain that.


I would hold off on applying to school for 3-4 years and work on your application, ie good score, GPA, and extraordinary EC activities. I like how most posters have said you have a chance to start with a clean slate. If you can build your story for 3-4 years and show your commitment to medicine and steer away from your backstory, you definitely can achieve whatever your goals are.

The biggest concern is relapsing as others have mentioned. So you really need to show yourself, not the adcoms, that you really are clean and ready to give your life to medicine.[/QUOTE]


I am starting to realize more and more that this is really the case. I have 3 years of school left, so plenty of time to get my GPA up if I put my mind to it. I need to do some soul searching and practice some rigorous self-honesty.
 
I was reading through old threads of potential med school applicants who identified themselves as recovering addicts, looking for information as to what to expect for myself. I first read the really old posts from the mid-2000's; people's responses were disheartening, to say the least. Of course its 2018, and its fair to say that addiction is not seen as a defect of moral character to the same degree as it was back then. I think the more recent threads I read through demonstrate this, and it is heartwarming to see the progress that has been made. That being said, of course addiction would still be a big red flag when deciding whether to accept an applicant to med school for obvious reasons. I want to mention a bit about my situation, since I am not sure that any one thread is adequately similar to my history.

I began using a legal herbal opiate daily at the end of high school, continuing into college. I did quite well my first semester, after that there is some rocky up and down which correlates to me trying to quit and different obstacles that got in the way (a jaw surgery where I was prescribed opioids, for example). Without divulging too much detail, I ended up withdrawing to get treatment, and was granted relief from my last semester. By this time, I had been using very strong opioids multiple times a day for 4-6 weeks. The withdrawal was primarily for depression (at the time), but dealt with addiction as well. I did not truly comprehend the gravity of my addiction until I went to treatment. All of my attempts to get help were not coerced and completely voluntary, and I have never been in trouble with the law or with my school. I did not "party" with drugs, I did them alone as a way to cope with depression.

It might sound like I am minimizing my addiction- that is because I am. To be clear, I do not think that the fact that I used a legal herb the majority of the time, that I generally didn't do things that would have attracted police attention, or that I was (relatively) honest about my addiction to family and doctors makes me any less of an addict that anyone else in my personal opinion. However, given the way addiction is still viewed (its hard to not judge morality), I wonder if these aspects of my story may reduce the size of the red flag to adcoms, so to speak. In other threads, I have seen people ask the OP about whether they broke laws, etc. I assume the thinking is that if someone is willing to forge prescriptions for themselves, for example, then when they get an actual license to prescribe they will be that much more likely to abuse the privileges than an addict that has never forged them. I personally believe that under the right circumstances, addicts (including myself) are capable of things we would never imagine possible, even during previous phases of active addiction. In my opinion, my not having done something in the past does next to nothing to predict whether I would do that thing if I were to relapse. Of course, my opinion is not the one that matters.

I have just come back and am sitting at a GPA around 3.2-3.5, which I hope to get higher now that I go to class consistently and sober. I am actively engaging in my recovery, and attend 12-step meetings multiple times a week. I am completely abstinent from all substances and am past my first year sober.

I know that maybe technically I can get away with not mentioning addiction specifically anywhere on my application. I don't think I can bring myself to do that though. Honesty is a huge part of my recovery, and not mentioning it would be against my conscience.

If I were to have a 3.8+ gpa, and score >93th percentile on the MCAT along with the rest of the things that usually make one an otherwise strong applicant, is there anything in my story that might be a mitigating factor where I would otherwise be rejected? I know it is kind of ludicrous that part of my strength as an applicant in recovery would lie in the potential misconceptions adcoms' might have about addicts. I do not mean to be condescending to them; even as an addict I have trouble letting go of misconceptions I hold about addicts, including myself.

Please excuse grammatical/spelling errors and the kind of weird tone, I have not slept well the past few nights! I would be very grateful for any feedback, positive or negative, especially from those who are particularly qualified!!

Post was a little long, maybe I missed it. But out of curiosity. How much clean time do you have?
 
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I know I may sound discouraging. But you need to repair your grades and health first. I understand a good plan will get you closer to your final destination. But it sounds like you’re a little ahead of yourself. From the post itself, I feel it’s still a little raw for you. (?)

As you’ve seen from the responses, you have a chance. Now move on.
Get grades, get your volunteering hours in, get a good MCAT score. By the time you do all that, you may have a better perspective and outlook for life or career. Stay clean, recognize when you need help and get it IRL.

Good luck!
 
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[
There is something out there called Kratom that the FDA has slapped a warning on and is calling it an opiate.

Remember a tox warning in my region...

kids were buying dried poppy seed pods from craft stores, boiling them and getting stoned from the opiate tea they were making. Could be that?
 
Maybe I can get to a place where I feel comfortable not mentioning the addiction initially, but right now the idea of doing that seems disingenuous and wrong. I guess I will have to give it a lot of thought. The question is more of when I reveal that history I guess. If I am accepted, I want to inform them so I can get set up with the state's physician health program. I would also probably voluntarily go on vivitrol again. I know those aren't much, but they are the only safeguards available. Can I be denied admission after being accepted if I inform them of my history in order to join the physician health program?

Thank you for your response, by the way. I really appreciate your feedback.
I will be applying next cycle and not mentioning any drug problems I had in high school (10 years ago). I would rather be a physician and chock up legal troubles to being a "lost kid" rather than take the chance that someone reading my application has preconceived notions about addiction/drug use and thinks I'm a risk. I know I'm not a risk and that's all that matters.

I don't think it's being disingenuous, I think it's just doing what you can to pursue your dream. Do you think that everything you have to do to get into medical school will ensure you are a good medical school "candidate" (altruistic, hardworking, empathetic, smart)? No, half the stuff is just different ways to separate yourself from other candidates to make their decision process easier. See this as another way to "separate" yourself and don't mention it. Otherwise, you are taking a huge risk. I have heard of others that have expressed their addiction/alcoholism on their personal statement and gotten in, however, I don't live my life through anecdotal evidence. When ADCOMS on this forum tell me not to mention it, I will listen to them.
 
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[


Remember a tox warning in my region...

kids were buying dried poppy seed pods from craft stores, boiling them and getting stoned from the opiate tea they were making. Could be that?
Geesh...and to think when I was a kid I couldn't buy bananas at the grocery store because they thought we were going to get high by smoking the peels (according to the song Mellow Yellow by Donovan). :banana::banana::banana: :cigar: :nono: :wtf:
 
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Tangentially relevant:

"Opiate
is a term classically used in pharmacology to mean a drug derived from opium. Opiod, a more modern term, is used to designate all narcotics, both natural and synthetic, that bind to opiod receptors in the brain (including antagonists)"
-From our friends at Wikipedia (at least a legit citation).

Fairly close to being synonymous. While opiate might not have been the best or most correct term, I don't think it's something worth jumping on the OP for, given they are seeking advice in earnest.

 
I know two physicians that are recovering/recovered addicts. One fell into addiction after becoming a physician, the other became a physician with a decade or so clean. The former had no way to hide it and nearly lost his license, but was able to keep it by abiding by a strict recovery program. The latter never mentioned it to anyone (I only know the full story because he is a close friend of a close friend and we met outside of any medical or academic context). Like people have said before, don't tell anyone! Your grades can be chalked up to struggling with depression, but i found a way to cope with XYZ method and my grades improved. Mental illness is losing its stigma, but it will be many years before addiction follows suit. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. The first thing most doctors will hear when you say you have addiction issues is that you want a prescription pad so you can get high.
 
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Post was a little long, maybe I missed it. But out of curiosity. How much clean time do you have?
>1 year

I know I may sound discouraging. But you need to repair your grades and health first. I understand a good plan will get you closer to your final destination. But it sounds like you’re a little ahead of yourself. From the post itself, I feel it’s still a little raw for you. (?)

As you’ve seen from the responses, you have a chance. Now move on.
Get grades, get your volunteering hours in, get a good MCAT score. By the time you do all that, you may have a better perspective and outlook for life or career. Stay clean, recognize when you need help and get it IRL.

Good luck!

Could not agree more. I definitely understand that all of the questions I have are still hypothetical. Thanks!

[


Remember a tox warning in my region...

kids were buying dried poppy seed pods from craft stores, boiling them and getting stoned from the opiate tea they were making. Could be that?

I can personally confirm that they are not the same thing. lol


Something I find interesting is the fact that so many people are telling me to not mention it, yet nobody has tried to dissuade me from attempting to go into medicine (besides some well-founded warnings). I guess my thinking is, if I was an adcom and I truly thought the risk of approving an addict was too great, wouldn't I want to discourage them if they were to post on the forum as well? Would anyone who has told me to not mention it also deny somebody because of addiction themselves, were the applicant to mention it? I mean, sure, I can think of a few different answers. Just curious about the thought process.
 
>1 year



Could not agree more. I definitely understand that all of the questions I have are still hypothetical. Thanks!



I can personally confirm that they are not the same thing. lol


Something I find interesting is the fact that so many people are telling me to not mention it, yet nobody has tried to dissuade me from attempting to go into medicine (besides some well-founded warnings). I guess my thinking is, if I was an adcom and I truly thought the risk of approving an addict was too great, wouldn't I want to discourage them if they were to post on the forum as well? Would anyone who has told me to not mention it also deny somebody because of addiction themselves, were the applicant to mention it? I mean, sure, I can think of a few different answers. Just curious about the thought process.

You see the dilemma on display right here. Intellectually we all recognize it is a disease. But there is still something deep down, that is beyond our intellect. Be that is stereotype or whatever it is called.

I personally don’t think you should be the one digging.
 
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>1 year



Could not agree more. I definitely understand that all of the questions I have are still hypothetical. Thanks!



I can personally confirm that they are not the same thing. lol


Something I find interesting is the fact that so many people are telling me to not mention it, yet nobody has tried to dissuade me from attempting to go into medicine (besides some well-founded warnings). I guess my thinking is, if I was an adcom and I truly thought the risk of approving an addict was too great, wouldn't I want to discourage them if they were to post on the forum as well? Would anyone who has told me to not mention it also deny somebody because of addiction themselves, were the applicant to mention it? I mean, sure, I can think of a few different answers. Just curious about the thought process.

Well keep it up man... Our stories are very different, but the affliction is the same. I have 6 years in January, and the whole process has been life changing. I battled with some of the same thoughts as you. On whether I should mention my substance abuse. I personally can see how it sets me apart and how much it’s influenced my decision to go into medicine in the first place. I haven’t applied yet but when I do, I don’t Intend on mentioning it. And I don’t think you should either... Youll see. You stay clean, continue to improve yourself in ALL aspects of your life, not just as a med student, and when it’s come to fill out your application you’ll be so much more than a individual that has gotten over a substance abuse problem. You’ll have so much more in your life, so much more that you’ll identify with. So much more you’ll want to share. So much more that you won’t even care to mention it in an application.

Don’t see it yet. Just set this question aside continue to grow, and revisit it closer to application time.
 
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You see the dilemma on display right here. Intellectually we all recognize it is a disease. But there is still something deep down, that is beyond our intellect. Be that is stereotype or whatever it is called.

I personally don’t think you should be the one digging.

I am not sure what you meant by that last part. I guess I am just looking for any extra information as I think about a big question many others have repeated: whether I should even want to pursue medicine (for my own sake, as well as others), and if I am creating an unreasonable risk to my future patients. I get the sense that my risk is assessed one way logically, yet another way emotionally; I don't like mind-reading, though.

Anyways, I really appreciate everyone's help! I definitely feel like you guys added a lot of depth to my considerations, and I am very thankful for that.
 
The only thing that might come up down the road is a disclosure to medical licensing boards if they ask you of any conditions that could impede your ability to practice. If you were/are being prescribed suboxone, methadone, vivitrol, etc - could that be an issue? I don't know, but it bears looking into.

Props on you for getting clean before fentanyl started to rear its ugly head.
 
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Something I find interesting is the fact that so many people are telling me to not mention it, yet nobody has tried to dissuade me from attempting to go into medicine (besides some well-founded warnings). I guess my thinking is, if I was an adcom and I truly thought the risk of approving an addict was too great, wouldn't I want to discourage them if they were to post on the forum as well? Would anyone who has told me to not mention it also deny somebody because of addiction themselves, were the applicant to mention it? I mean, sure, I can think of a few different answers. Just curious about the thought process.
Frankly, we like come-from-behind stories. It's in our national DNA.

Your prolonged period of academic excellence is one way of allaying our fears that you might relapse. This is no different from a candidate who had struggles with mental health issues in the past.
 
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I am not sure what you meant by that last part. I guess I am just looking for any extra information as I think about a big question many others have repeated: whether I should even want to pursue medicine (for my own sake, as well as others), and if I am creating an unreasonable risk to my future patients. I get the sense that my risk is assessed one way logically, yet another way emotionally; I don't like mind-reading, though.

Anyways, I really appreciate everyone's help! I definitely feel like you guys added a lot of depth to my considerations, and I am very thankful for that.

I would suggest that while it some people may fall on your side, others may not. And because adcoms are composed of multiple members, a team of people, it may be difficult to get all 12 on the side of somebody with this red flag. So while many of us find it inspiring, others wouldnt, and it could be a major detriment.
 
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In the rare event you will require a security clearance for your job, you will be asked if you have ever illegally used drugs and may be subject to a polygraph. As far as I know for the DEA license, it only asks about convictions, not voluntarily disclosing past drug use.
 
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>1 year



Could not agree more. I definitely understand that all of the questions I have are still hypothetical. Thanks!



I can personally confirm that they are not the same thing. lol


Something I find interesting is the fact that so many people are telling me to not mention it, yet nobody has tried to dissuade me from attempting to go into medicine (besides some well-founded warnings). I guess my thinking is, if I was an adcom and I truly thought the risk of approving an addict was too great, wouldn't I want to discourage them if they were to post on the forum as well? Would anyone who has told me to not mention it also deny somebody because of addiction themselves, were the applicant to mention it? I mean, sure, I can think of a few different answers. Just curious about the thought process.

Your post didn’t have enough clear information to discuss your academic credentials

But fine, if you want to be told it’s a risk to your sobriety.....it is. I’m not being sarcastic, it is
 
I think there’s a difference between hiding something and just not telling someone something because it shouldn’t be relevant.

The truth is, it’s very difficult to get into medical school and any flags at all are likely going to be seen as red. If I was going to hire a babysitter and I had 10 applications for 1 spot and one of them brought up plant-based opioid receptor agonist use, i’d go with one of the other 9.
 
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Albeit our situations are different, I disclosed past substance abuse on my primary/secondary applications in addition to my arrests relating to said substance abuse. I have 2 II for the 2018-2019 cycle so far.

IMO, I think that if my substance abuse issue was a problem with the schools I got an II from, they wouldn't have sent the II out to me to begin with. Could be wrong...
 
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Albeit our situations are different, I disclosed past substance abuse on my primary/secondary applications in addition to my arrests relating to said substance abuse. I have 2 II for the 2018-2019 cycle so far.

IMO, I think that if my substance abuse issue was a problem with the schools I got an II from, they wouldn't have sent the II out to me to begin with. Could be wrong...
How long ago were the arrests? Time does heal some wounds. What we look for is evidence that the you of now is not the you of old.

As an Adcom member, I do give puase when I see a candidate admit to a history of arrest and/or drug abuse. As mentioned above, the fear of relapse is always on our minds.
 
Albeit our situations are different, I disclosed past substance abuse on my primary/secondary applications in addition to my arrests relating to said substance abuse. I have 2 II for the 2018-2019 cycle so far.

IMO, I think that if my substance abuse issue was a problem with the schools I got an II from, they wouldn't have sent the II out to me to begin with. Could be wrong...

What the substance is might make a difference. Getting arrested for marijuana or alcohol is different than having an addiction to opiods.
 
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This link seems relevant.
Overall... you have very little to gain and everything to lose by disclosing your past. Imagine you're an adcom instead of an applicant.
Two identical applicants. Only one seat left to fill.
Both check all the boxes- GPA, MCAT, etc.
One has a history of drug and alcohol abuse, the other does not.
If you're an admissions committee faced with the above scenario- why take the risk?
Our society has come a long way in terms of the stigma surrounding addiction and recovery, but the reality is that it is still a liability.
 
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