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Refusal of Medical License... are you kidding me?!?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Santa333, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Santa333

    Santa333 2+ Year Member

    Apr 23, 2007
    Hello SDN

    First let me start by saying im not currently a medical school, im only just about finished with my first year of pre-med. I have been reading up alot on these forums and a few questions have arisen about a particular subject... DUIs.

    When I was 17 years old (a minor) I was convicted of a .02 offense (a "baby" DUI as the lawyer referred to it). I completed all the required classes and post-court procedures. I plan on getting the charge expunged before I begin applying to med school. Anyway, from what I've read this obviously is not going to help my chances of getting accepted, but it is still very much possible and there are plently of people with more serious crimes that have been accepted. The main reason I am posting is about medical licensing. I read a few posts about how people were being denied to having a medical license because of a criminal background. Some of them seemed a bit extreme, such as one person was denied a license because he was accused of a minor crime but never even convicted...

    Sorry for rambling, I just have a few questions.

    1. It seems unrealistic a licensing board would refuse to give me a license because of this, but I've read a case or two where this type of situation seemed possible. My question is, how much weight is this going to have on me getting a medical license (assuming I get into med school, complete it, and finish residency and what not)?? I have a very hard time believing that a licensing board will say "Sorry sir, but because 14 years ago, when you were a minor, you were convicted of a .02 offense. And even though it was expunged and you completed all the requirements to be a physician, we are going to deny your application for a medical license.

    2. If neither the AMCAS application or the secondary application (for applying for med school) asks if I have been convicted of a misdemeanor, should I tell them anyway??

    3. Thats about it actually, thanks for your responses it will be very helpful!!
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  3. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    you have a lawyer. ask her/him.
  4. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

    Sep 5, 2005
    If they don't ask, then don't tell.

    But they will ask.
  5. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student 7+ Year Member

    A lawyer would be a better place to ask this.
  6. DayDune

    DayDune Member 2+ Year Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    AMCAS will not be asking you to divulge information about any misdemeanors you committed while you were a minor. If they do not ask in the secondary apps, I would not make it an issue. And as far as getting a license, it's not going to matter. There are no laws, whatsoever, that say a person with a DUI cannot get a medical license. Don't worry about it...worry more about getting into medical school. :)
  7. cfdavid

    cfdavid Banned Banned 7+ Year Member

    Oct 24, 2004
    Don't tell if they don't ask. If they DO ask, think clearly about whether you'll be doing yourself a favor if you tell them the truth. Should you choose NOT to tell the truth, there could be consequences. Thus, you'll need to evaluate the risk vs. the reward. I'm a believer that people can redeem themselves for stupid things done in prior years (especially the younger ones). But, in the climate of todays PC world, you may be penalized disproportionately for some past mistakes. Thus, choose wisely.

    That being said, I highly doubt you'd be asked about misdemeanors.
  8. jdh71

    jdh71 epiphany at nine thousand six hundred feet Physician 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2006
    FEMA Camp, USA
    First point, and one that will be thrown back in your face if you try and take the same attitude in the original post, is this: if you're the type of rocket-scientist guy we want making medical decisions in our state, please explain to us what kind of genius thinking you had going on in your mensa mind when you stepped behind the wheel of a vehicle after illegally drinking? How's that for fun? The people on boards will kick you in the balls if you try and get indignant. You screwed up - take responsibility. I don't hear that and either will they if a similar strategy is used. Be a man. Own it. Zero excuses. There are consequences for everything you do. MMMMMMMMkay?

    Second, this happened when you were still a kid and there is no reason you will have to report this, juvie records are supposed to be sealed. And in fact, I would not willingly report this. If this was a completely isolated incident from the past, then pretend it never happened. Move on. Now, if you do this an get snapped again for enjoying a little "dewy" action, you're sunk. Remember, if you're interested in medical school, you are expected to not make mistakes because doctors are not supposed to make mistakes - which is absurd, but that's the way it is. Make sure you're never driving while partying and never left holding the bag - if you've good good buds they will understand this. Be careful - this is your career and it starts before a long time before you're ever fully liscenced to practice.

    Third, having a substance problem or even an isolated DUI does not preclude one from a liscence, but you will be monitored the rest of your life and that, my friend, is a pain in the ass. Good luck.
  9. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Guest

    Feb 23, 2007
    :thumbup: Trudat.
  10. BeatrixKiddo

    BeatrixKiddo Guest

    Aug 21, 2006
    The Island
    I would NOT want you as my family doctor. First of all underage drinking?? How irresonsible! You should have been studying, and no, I'm not kidding.
  11. Santa333

    Santa333 2+ Year Member

    Apr 23, 2007
    I appreciate all the feedback I recieved for this and want to thank everyone who posted.
  12. njbmd

    njbmd Guest Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

    May 30, 2001
    Gone Walkabout!
    Moving to Pre-Allo as this is a pre-med issue. Allopathic medical students read and can reply to threads in Pre-Allo.
  13. Old ortho

    Old ortho 2+ Year Member

    Mar 11, 2007
    Consult a lawyer who specializes in medical licensing issues and malpractice.
  14. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty! 7+ Year Member

    Look at the wording of the actual request for your background from the medical board...

    It does not say, have you ever been...even if your record has been sealed/expunged etc

    If it did you would have to let them know.

    Now I am only a law student. Dish out no more than $150 for legal counseling from an attorney as previously indicated and not only should you get more accurate info. but you could sue her/him for malpractice should she/he commit legal malpractice by advising you incorrectly. Best wishes :)
  15. UMP

    UMP Recovered Under-Achiever 7+ Year Member

    Aug 27, 2004
    You'll be fine... if you don't get in to any more trouble they'll just overlook it as a one time occurance... You'll have at least 8-9 years between licensing and this charge :idea:
  16. BlackSails

    BlackSails 2+ Year Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    Ask the judge when you get your record expunged if you have to say that you were ever convicted of the offense.
  17. Dooooom

    Dooooom Member 5+ Year Member

    Feb 14, 2006
  18. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Jul 23, 2004
    Though there's a lot of hero-worship about doctors in pre-allo on SDN, I think you'd find a whole lot less doctors if DUI's nix'd medical licenses.

    OP- Talk to a lawyer. Regardless of his reply, tell the truth during the process. And I wouldn't go out of my way to volunteer background info that's not specifically asked.
  19. Tired Pigeon

    Tired Pigeon 7+ Year Member

    Jan 27, 2007
  20. senseiturtle

    senseiturtle 5+ Year Member

    Nov 9, 2006
    This is for the state of Utah. You will need to look up your own particular state.

    I know of someone who received a MIP (minor in possession) charge 2 weeks before he was 21. It was on school property. The guy went through the "alcohol awareness," program offered to him, both through the school and at the state level.

    School disciplinary charges were erased. The record is expunged.

    Since it is a misdemeanor, and the required time period has passed, and the individual applied for expungement with success.. The record is now completely erased.

    This person is not legally bound to report the prior arrest. He has also "passed" several background checks, both related to professional school and for the purchasing of a firearm.

    I am no lawyer, but your record can be erased. Now, if you commit a capital felony or are featured on "to catch a predator," you're done for life. If you should have any questions after researching your own state laws, then consult a lawyer.

    I hear unofficially that DUI's can be expunged. They might be a little harder to shake than a simple underage possession.
  21. Haemulon

    Haemulon Slippery When Wet Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Jun 1, 2006
    On SDN
    OMG!!!!!! Not underage drinking!!!!! :eek:

    I agree, my doctor better not have ever had sex before marraige either! I cringe at the immorality of these thoughts!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
  22. Dr.Inviz

    Dr.Inviz Banned Banned

    Oct 1, 2006
    Riker explodes everytime sex, alcohol, drugs, and/or tattooed women are mentioned ..
  23. GreenShirt

    GreenShirt 10+ Year Member

    Feb 6, 2007
    It wasn't just underage drinking, it was a DUI....that's irresponsible.
  24. Haemulon

    Haemulon Slippery When Wet Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Jun 1, 2006
    On SDN
    Beatrix specifically referred to underage drinking as irresponsible, which is what I responded to. But really I will extend this to DUI as well. Just because someone got pulled for having some drinks when they were a teenager does not make them a high-risk or bad doctor as an adult. Irresonsible? Absolutely. But lets all keep some perspective here. I mean, I know we are all perfect angels on here and have a totally squeeky clean past. But maybe one or two people in the world have done something crazy or stupid when they were young. And it's not like he said he plowed over a bus load of nuns or drove through a 7-11. He was just dumb and got into his car after some drinks. Fortunately he was stopped and has learned from it. Score 1 point for a successful life lesson.
  25. dutchman

    dutchman 7+ Year Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    Get over yourself already. Young people make mistakes. This society does a good job at making sure people don't get a second chance to change their ways. Isn't that what correctional laws are all about? Look at the prison systems, pretty much recycling the same group of people just because no one affords them a legit opportunity to change, or survive when they do change(no job offers). We keep and use every record as if we don't recognise that people can in fact change. Pretty silly IMO.
  26. indiamacbean

    indiamacbean Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Mar 16, 2003
    Regardless of how everyone on this post feels about underage DUI and whether or not it should matter the voices of SDN aren't the ones you have to convince. There was an intern this year at a TOP medicine program in CA who had a "baby" DUI on their record. They went to get their medical license to continue practicing and training in CA and were denied despite appeals. This isn't just something you disclose or don't disclose. They then had to leave their famous/great residency training program and look for another program and another state that would have them. So... I would say the moral of this story is go find out from a lawyer (not SDN) what the impact will be. Don't go 150k in debt if you are going to have trouble practicing. good luck.
  27. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Jul 23, 2004
    I take a very dim view of DUIs and am a strong proponent of accountability. Folks get way too little punishment for DUI's in my opinion.

    That said, this person was a minor. He is not legally responsible for his own actions. He can not choose to enlist, vote, buy a house, or legally drink. There's a reason in most criminal cases that you can't refer to someone's juvenille record.

    So I wouldn't judge too much someone who committed a sin at 17 when they're now five years older. Now a DUI at 22? Different animal.
  28. Haemulon

    Haemulon Slippery When Wet Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Jun 1, 2006
    On SDN
    Agreed :thumbup:
  29. sirus_virus

    sirus_virus nonsense poster 2+ Year Member

    Nov 6, 2006
    Why not deny people medical licences for speeding tickets too? I think that is also very dangerous and irresponsible :rolleyes:
  30. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Jul 23, 2004
    Speeding tickets = infractions, not misdemeanors or felonies.

    DUI's = Evidence of criminally poor judgement regarding consumption of a drug.

    Incidentally, I don't think medical licenses should be revoked/prevented solely on the basis of a DUI. But comparing a DUI to a speeding ticket is silly.
  31. Dr.Inviz

    Dr.Inviz Banned Banned

    Oct 1, 2006
    1st a "baby" DUI and now asking if he can exploit his potential cancer diagnosis towards an easier ride towards acceptance into medical school, no, you don't need to be a doctor. Do law or business school, you'd fit right in.

    SOUNDMAN Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    May 16, 2004
    Don't lie about it. All applications ask, even if your record is expunged, I'd still report it. Time changes a lot of things, so it's on your side barring another infraction. Learn from it obviously and remember they will ask.

    I was licensed with no problems as a PA after mine. (DWAI - driving while ability impaired) when I was 19. I'm in medical school now, again it was never brought up at all (in interviews), but was asked about on the applications.

    Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.

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