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Religion and Medicine

How would you classify YOURSELF. Definitions below in first post.

  • Theist

    Votes: 140 46.2%
  • Deist

    Votes: 28 9.2%
  • Atheist

    Votes: 102 33.7%
  • Other - Please explain

    Votes: 33 10.9%

  • Total voters
    303

Stolenspatulas

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    Definitions

    Theist - believes a supernatural intelligence created the universe, and unlimitedly oversees and influences the continuous fate of this initial creation.

    Deist - believes a supernatural intelligence created the universe, and does not oversee nor influence the continuous fate of this initial creation.

    Atheist - does not believe a supernatural intelligence created/governs the universe.


    How would you characterize yourself. Please do not automatically accept your religious identity with that of your family or ancestry.........look into only YOURSELF and tell me what you think.

    Also feel free to comment on if you believe your religion has an impact on your path into and in medicine.

    Just curious.
     

    Darksmurf

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      Definitions

      Theist - believes a supernatural intelligence created the universe, and unlimitedly oversees and influences the continuous fate of this initial creation.

      Deist - believes a supernatural intelligence created the universe, and does not oversee nor influence the continuous fate of this initial creation.

      Atheist - does not believe a supernatural intelligence created/governs the universe.


      How would you characterize yourself. Please do not automatically accept your religious identity with that of your family or ancestry.........look into only YOURSELF and tell me what you think.

      Also feel free to comment on if you believe your religion has an impact on your path into and in medicine.

      Just curious.

      Is it reasonable to say that those who 'automatically accept' the religious affiliation of their family are probably not going to be able to read your poll and decide in five minutes (after looking 'into' themselves) whether or not they believe in a supreme being? What does Simon Yates say in Touching the Void? Something about how it took staring into the oblivion of death to finally settle in his mind whether or not he indeed believed in God (he decided he didn't believe). I'm skeptical that people (especially those so undecided at to blindly mouth the trope of their families) on a weekday night staring into a computer screen can look into themselves and decide what to vote in your poll.

      I'm between a Deist and a Theist. I'm not sure the extent to which God pulls the strings.
       
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      Stolenspatulas

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        Is it reasonable to say that those who 'automatically accept' the religious affiliation of their family are probably not going to be able to read your poll and decide in five minutes (after looking 'into' themselves) whether or not they believe in a supreme being? What does Simon Yates say in Touching the Void? Something about how it took staring into the oblivion of death to finally settle in his mind whether or not he indeed believed in God (he decided he didn't believe). I'm skeptical that people (especially those so undecided at to blindly mouth the trope of their families) on a weekday night staring into a computer screen can look into themselves and decide what to vote in your poll.

        I'm between a Deist and a Theist. I'm not sure the extent to which God pulls the strings.

        I'm hoping that those born into a religious context don't just label themselves off as that religion. I know its a lot to ask. But hey, hopefully SDNers don't just click on poll positions blindly without at least reflecting for a few seconds .
         

        Darksmurf

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          I'm hoping that those born into a religious context don't just label themselves off as that religion. I know its a lot to ask. But hey, hopefully SDNers don't just click on poll positions blindly without at least reflecting for a few seconds .

          If you hope that they "don't just label themselves off as that religion," then why such a strongly cautioned preamble? I would presume that is because you know that many people do just that; hence, a few seconds of reflection is unlikely enough for these people.
           

          Stolenspatulas

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            If you hope that they "don't just label themselves off as that religion," then why such a strongly cautioned preamble? I would presume that is because you know that many people do just that; hence, a few seconds of reflection is unlikely enough for these people.

            I can only caution as much as I can. I realize that some will slip through the cracks and click 'theist' automatically as they're trained to since the dawn of identifying oneself by a religion. :cool:
             

            xylem29

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              Other - agnositc: doesn't really know if there is a higher power or not. You could say that I am a reform agnostic: don't know, don't care!

              Religion has no influence over me or my desire to enter medicine. It will however, obviously play a role in my career when I encounter people who are very religuous, I'd have to be sensitive to their views.
               

              delpier07

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                my guess is that with a large enough sample size, other will be the most common answer due to the fact that it is hard for many people to definitively place themselves in one of the other three categories. I'm interested in seeing what the actual outcome is.


                For myself, I don't entirely believe there is a god that created the world, but the human spirit never ceases to amaze me. Organized religion has done a lot of wonderful things for many people (and some not so great things to others), but traditional religion just isn't my bag. I would call myself a Quaker if I had to pick a belief system to belong to.
                 

                gsmithers68

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                  I think this poll needs a fourth/fifth answer... the monotheistic God is portrayed as being to some degree in the first two answers... but what about Eastern Religions? Where do they fit on this poll? It seems that the scope is limited. Also, Agnosticism? Why is that not an available answer? I think it is fair to assume many people have accepted the unknown. Still, I am curious how this poll will pan out.
                   

                  Nickelpennykid

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                    I am just waiting for the nutty bastard that comes on here and attempts to explain that Dinosaurs and humans co-habitated a brief 8000 years ago and sets off a 5-alarm flame war.
                     
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                    Stolenspatulas

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                      I think this poll needs a fourth/fifth answer... the monotheistic God is portrayed as being to some degree in the first two answers... but what about Eastern Religions? Where do they fit on this poll? It seems that the scope is limited. Also, Agnosticism? Why is that not an available answer? I think it is fair to assume many people have accepted the unknown. Still, I am curious how this poll will pan out.

                      a theist can believe in a monotheistic god or many gods. its the act of the god(s) that matters. does the god(s) exist, does the god(s) create the universe, does the god(s) still intervene in everything.

                      Yea i should have made an agnostic category.

                      Does anyone think that U.S. society 50 years from now will be at least 30% atheist??? from my college experience, i feel that a huge portion of peers i came accross were atheist/agnostic.

                      if people become more educated in the next 50 years (as a whole), do you guys/gals think that atheism will become more accepted and more widespread?
                       

                      bretticus

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                        I am just waiting for the nutty bastard that comes on here and attempts to explain that Dinosaurs and humans co-habitated a brief 8000 years ago and sets off a 5-alarm flame war.
                        Excuse me, but can you prove they didn't? Do you think radio-carbon dating is scientific or something? I mean, just because light has been traveling billions of years towards us doesn't mean it actually existed when it began... wait... confused... la la la la, I can't hear you!

                        Sorry, I know I'm making fun of someone, and now they'll get offended. Then again, they probably are condemning me to hell and think I should be just rosey while they tell me.

                        If Jesus came down right now and said (macroscopic) evolution was false, some people would say he's lying to test our faith or something. There are just religious fruitcakes like that.

                        Now if you want to believe that, be my guest. Just don't act like I'm stupid for not blindly following after you.

                        All you people that don't read religious texts literally, :thumbup: to you. :)

                        Personally, I lean atheist -- but then I have no answer for how in the hell we exist, so more agnostic really.
                         

                        Stolenspatulas

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                          Excuse me, but can you prove they didn't? Do you think radio-carbon dating is scientific or something? I mean, just because light has been traveling billions of years towards us doesn't mean it actually existed when it began... wait... confused... la la la la, I can't hear you!

                          Sorry, I know I'm making fun of someone, and now they'll get offended. Then again, they probably are condemning me to hell and think I should be just rosey while they tell me.

                          If Jesus came down right now and said (macroscopic) evolution was false, some people would say he's lying to test our faith or something. There are just religious fruitcakes like that.

                          Now if you want to believe that, be my guest. Just don't act like I'm stupid for not blindly following after you.

                          All you people that don't read religious texts literally, :thumbup: to you. :)

                          Personally, I lean atheist -- but then I have no answer for how in the hell we exist, so more agnostic really.

                          The problem with your post is that it gives believers more reason to hate non-believers. you're fueling their fire. they're frustrated with your non-beliefs as much as you're frustrated with their beliefs.
                           

                          bretticus

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                            The problem with your post is that it gives believers more reason to hate non-believers. you're fueling their fire. they're frustrated with your non-beliefs as much as you're frustrated with their beliefs.
                            I'm not frustrated with their beliefs, I'm frustrated with them telling me how to live. This country is about religious freedom, yet so many religious people seem to want to push their morals onto everyone else. They can't seem to just agree to disagree.

                            Intelligent design/creationism does not belong in a science class!

                            People can believe the Earth is flat or whatever, so long as they leave me out of it.
                             

                            ssquared

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                              I'm curious to see the poll results because I've always wondered about the religious views of doctors as a group vs. the rest of the population. It's tempting to say that since they have more education as a whole doctors are probably less religious (if at all) but that would be mostly ignorance speaking (on my behalf, at least).

                              I've always wondered how doctors who are deeply religious deal with what they see as conflicts with their beliefs: birth control, abortion, etc. I know some groups are pushing for "conscience clauses" for pharmacists, yadda yadda, but what do you do when you can't reconcile your beliefs with the treatment that a patient/wants needs? You no longer have the luxury of just being an ordinary citizen who doesn't have to get involved.

                              Just curious....
                               

                              DropkickMurphy

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                                Ain't that the truth!

                                Ever seen "Flock of Dodos"? I highly recommend it for anybody lucky enough to live near an upcoming screening. (http://www.flockofdodos.com)
                                So does which side does it end up coming down on? Who are the dodos according to the movie in the end?
                                 
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                                haroldlewis

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                                  I struggled with this question pretty intensely while in college (so quite a few seconds of reflection - got pretty tired of it after awhile but couldn't get it off my mind). Eventually I boiled it down to a similar set of choices and what I saw as their implications, so I'll add my long-decided vote after this post.

                                  The list:
                                  1. There is no God. If all life were to end, there would be no one to mourn this and such an event could not be described as being objectively bad - just meaningless.
                                  2. There is a God and he hasn't spoken. Implications for this are really none, just live as I so choose (be it moral or immoral)
                                  3. There is a God and he has spoken as recorded in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Implications for this being that I should live according to what is written in the Bible.
                                  4. There is a God and his words are recorded in a different religious tradition. Implications being that I should seek out that religion and live according to its teachings.

                                  I didn't include pluralism on the list because I find it logically unworkable if one is to hold to position 3 or 4 in truth, but I believe it effectively fits in under the implications of 2 or makes this whole exercise relatively unimportant. So basically this list can fall into the categories you've laid out: 1 as atheist, 2 as deist, 3 and 4 as theist. At the time I sought out answers, I would best describe myself as someone who didn't acknowledge God operating generally in line with a cultural context broadly governed by the remains of religiously grounded morals, hostile to Christianity due to perceived hypocrisy by its adherents and its clash with my desire to live as I would so choose, superficially tinkering with hip eastern spiritual ideas, and then teetering towards atheism or agnosticism in the face of a seemingly silent and absent God.

                                  In the face of this silence, and in full awareness of the philisophical and rational conflicts I had with the implications of there being a "Theistic" God, I was drawn to the God presented in the gospels of the Bible, which a friend had challenged me to read. What I hated about the gospels was that they made me feel like crap about myself, because if I were to accept them, I knew I would have to change so much of how I was living - and I had my aforementioned issues with the idea of God period. But I couldn't get away from them, the words broke me down like hammers, stuck with me like the bears defense should have stuck to the colts receivers and running backs last night, and then built me back up a totally different person.

                                  To this day I still wrestle with theological and philisophical issues regarding God, and I'm sure they are issues many of you have that keep you away from the God of so-called "organized religion" but I can say emphatically that I'm not a theist because of organized religion, but rather because I haven't been able to pull myself away from one person - that person is Christ, the Christ who told people to turn their lives toward God so that their wrongs could be forgiven and so that they could have abundant life, the Christ who promised that those who get away with evil will one day have to pay for it, the Christ who shows a God who isn't removed from our reality, but who knows firsthand what it is like to live on earth - both the joys and the agonies - who hears our calls, and who loves the world so much that he endured the horror of being murdered for it - that's the reason why I'm a Theist.

                                  It has had a big impact on my path into medicine and in how I believe I will practice medicine: it's the reason why I love people so stinking much (although I don't always do the best job at it, I'm trying), it's the reason why I don't love money anymore, it's what defines me, it's given me peace throughout this application process, and it's the reason why I want to work my butt off to be a doctor...and after todays interviews I can't wait to go to medical school with some of you!
                                   

                                  ssquared

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                                    So does which side does it end up coming down on? Who are the dodos according to the movie in the end?

                                    Oh, but that would be giving it away!

                                    I think the ending would surprise people. Ultimately, it's the scientists who end up being the dodos because while supporters of Intelligent Design have been so successful in promoting their cause (slogans like "Teach the Controversy") while scientists are so sure of evolution that they splutter and then refuse to even discuss ID because they view it as stupid. Therefore, who's winning the media war? (which is ultimately what it's coming down to) The supporters of ID, and the scientists come off looking like intellectual elitists who won't give anybody else the time of day.

                                    Randy Olson, the filmmaker, has a PhD in evolutionary ecology and studied under Stephen Jay Gould, so the documentary has a very educated feel to it, but is very funny and has mass appeal. I'm waiting for it to get picked up by a mass distributor-it could reach the level that An Inconvenient Truth reached with some good promotion.

                                    FWIW, one of the "dodos" in the movie is a prof at my university. And while he's a intelligent, accomplished guy, oh boy does he come off as a total ass. Case in point, I guess.
                                     

                                    Brown429

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                                      the problem I have with religion is that it is bestowed upon you (for some/most) from the moment you are born. You have no choice...you are "forced" to learn/follow what your family has been following. Now I know that you can chose your path later on in life...but it just does not seem right to me. Wish I could be less skeptical and be religious...but I cannot bring my self to do it.
                                       

                                      Stolenspatulas

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                                        the problem I have with religion is that it is bestowed upon you (for some/most) from the moment you are born. You have no choice...you are "forced" to learn/follow what your family has been following. Now I know that you can chose your path later on in life...but it just does not seem right to me. Wish I could be less skeptical and be religious...but I cannot bring my self to do it.

                                        Correct.

                                        I hate it when people say I was born a ____ (born a christian, born catholic, born muslim, hindu, etc). thats a load of crap. you were born into a religion and had it forced upon you before you could consciously decide if that religion was right/wrong/what have you.

                                        The question I ask you is this: Why do you wish you were less skeptical and thus religious? whats wrong with not being religious? why is the norm to be religious! why do you feel that there's something wrong with you since you can't get yourself to be religious.....?
                                         

                                        Chulito

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                                          Correct.

                                          I hate it when people say I was born a ____ (born a christian, born catholic, born muslim, hindu, etc). thats a load of crap. you were born into a religion and had it forced upon you before you could consciously decide if that religion was right/wrong/what have you.

                                          The question I ask you is this: Why do you wish you were less skeptical and thus religious? whats wrong with not being religious? why is the norm to be religious! why do you feel that there's something wrong with you since you can't get yourself to be religious.....?

                                          Pollmaster, what is your position?
                                           

                                          DropkickMurphy

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                                            Oh, but that would be giving it away!

                                            I think the ending would surprise people. Ultimately, it's the scientists who end up being the dodos because while supporters of Intelligent Design have been so successful in promoting their cause (slogans like "Teach the Controversy") while scientists are so sure of evolution that they splutter and then refuse to even discuss ID because they view it as stupid. Therefore, who's winning the media war? (which is ultimately what it's coming down to) The supporters of ID, and the scientists come off looking like intellectual elitists who won't give anybody else the time of day.

                                            Randy Olson, the filmmaker, has a PhD in evolutionary ecology and studied under Stephen Jay Gould, so the documentary has a very educated feel to it, but is very funny and has mass appeal. I'm waiting for it to get picked up by a mass distributor-it could reach the level that An Inconvenient Truth reached with some good promotion.

                                            FWIW, one of the "dodos" in the movie is a prof at my university. And while he's a intelligent, accomplished guy, oh boy does he come off as a total ass. Case in point, I guess.
                                            So it doesn't matter who's right and who has better spin? :laugh: Yup, that's America for you.....
                                             
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                                            pyrois

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                                              Excuse me, but can you prove they didn't? Do you think radio-carbon dating is scientific or something? I mean, just because light has been traveling billions of years towards us doesn't mean it actually existed when it began... wait... confused... la la la la, I can't hear you!

                                              Eh, well Lord Kelvin's estimate of the age of the earth was considered pretty solid with his thermal analysis.

                                              Then Darwin came along with evolution and all of a sudden Kelvin's estimates had to be wrong because it "wasn't enough time" for humans to evolve.

                                              So they redid the numbers with this great new discovery of "radiation" and fixed it up so it matched Darwin's theory.

                                              Heaven forbid internal nuclear energies, neutrino, and gamma ray emission contribute to error in their new number.

                                              And God save us if there's a particle or electromagnetic wave out of our omniscient knowledge of invisible energy propagation spectra.

                                              But then again, those scientists wouldn't care to look into anything that disproves the scientific faith:p
                                               

                                              Stolenspatulas

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                                                I struggled with this question pretty intensely while in college (so quite a few seconds of reflection - got pretty tired of it after awhile but couldn't get it off my mind). Eventually I boiled it down to a similar set of choices and what I saw as their implications, so I'll add my long-decided vote after this post.

                                                The list:
                                                1. There is no God. If all life were to end, there would be no one to mourn this and such an event could not be described as being objectively bad - just meaningless.
                                                2. There is a God and he hasn't spoken. Implications for this are really none, just live as I so choose (be it moral or immoral)
                                                3. There is a God and he has spoken as recorded in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Implications for this being that I should live according to what is written in the Bible.
                                                4. There is a God and his words are recorded in a different religious tradition. Implications being that I should seek out that religion and live according to its teachings.

                                                I didn't include pluralism on the list because I find it logically unworkable if one is to hold to position 3 or 4 in truth, but I believe it effectively fits in under the implications of 2 or makes this whole exercise relatively unimportant. So basically this list can fall into the categories you've laid out: 1 as atheist, 2 as deist, 3 and 4 as theist. At the time I sought out answers, I would best describe myself as someone who didn't acknowledge God operating generally in line with a cultural context broadly governed by the remains of religiously grounded morals, hostile to Christianity due to perceived hypocrisy by its adherents and its clash with my desire to live as I would so choose, superficially tinkering with hip eastern spiritual ideas, and then teetering towards atheism or agnosticism in the face of a seemingly silent and absent God.

                                                In the face of this silence, and in full awareness of the philisophical and rational conflicts I had with the implications of there being a "Theistic" God, I was drawn to the God presented in the gospels of the Bible, which a friend had challenged me to read. What I hated about the gospels was that they made me feel like crap about myself, because if I were to accept them, I knew I would have to change so much of how I was living - and I had my aforementioned issues with the idea of God period. But I couldn't get away from them, the words broke me down like hammers, stuck with me like the bears defense should have stuck to the colts receivers and running backs last night, and then built me back up a totally different person.

                                                To this day I still wrestle with theological and philisophical issues regarding God, and I'm sure they are issues many of you have that keep you away from the God of so-called "organized religion" but I can say emphatically that I'm not a theist because of organized religion, but rather because I haven't been able to pull myself away from one person - that person is Christ, the Christ who told people to turn their lives toward God so that their wrongs could be forgiven and so that they could have abundant life, the Christ who promised that those who get away with evil will one day have to pay for it, the Christ who shows a God who isn't removed from our reality, but who knows firsthand what it is like to live on earth - both the joys and the agonies - who hears our calls, and who loves the world so much that he endured the horror of being murdered for it - that's the reason why I'm a Theist.

                                                It has had a big impact on my path into medicine and in how I believe I will practice medicine: it's the reason why I love people so stinking much (although I don't always do the best job at it, I'm trying), it's the reason why I don't love money anymore, it's what defines me, it's given me peace throughout this application process, and it's the reason why I want to work my butt off to be a doctor...and after todays interviews I can't wait to go to medical school with some of you!

                                                I myself have battled the same issues.

                                                I respect how you've come to religion through a battle within yourself, rather than just accepting it blindly.

                                                What I couldn't grasp about religion is the plurality of it all. There's so many sides that claim they are right, with similar intensity in faith on all different sides. There is no way all these strong wills of ''faith'' can be correct. Is islam right? is Christianity right? what is right.

                                                I think if a God did exist why would it be tricking us with this plurality? The answer is not that ''He's testing your faith'' since its logically impossible for all the different religions to claim this (with all of them being correct at the same time).

                                                If God is real, why does it try to delude us?

                                                I personally didn't feel any calling to medicine due to a religion. I'm guessing many present-day premeds are in a similar boat. (I bet 50 years ago this would be different)
                                                 

                                                pyrois

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                                                  the problem I have with religion is that it is bestowed upon you (for some/most) from the moment you are born. You have no choice...you are "forced" to learn/follow what your family has been following. Now I know that you can chose your path later on in life...but it just does not seem right to me. Wish I could be less skeptical and be religious...but I cannot bring my self to do it.

                                                  The problem I have with science is that it is "bestowed upon you" by society the moment you're born. You have no choice. You are "forced" to learn/follow what science has discovered in school. Anything remotely religious and people joke about you not believing in gravity.

                                                  Now, I know that you can choose your path later on in life after you graduate from the education system, but it just does not seem right to me.

                                                  Wish I could be less skeptical and blindly follow the "rationalizations" of empirical science... but I cannot bring myself to do it.
                                                   

                                                  OncoCaP

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                                                    I'm curious to see the poll results because I've always wondered about the religious views of doctors as a group vs. the rest of the population. It's tempting to say that since they have more education as a whole doctors are probably less religious (if at all) but that would be mostly ignorance speaking (on my behalf, at least).

                                                    I've always wondered how doctors who are deeply religious deal with what they see as conflicts with their beliefs: birth control, abortion, etc. I know some groups are pushing for "conscience clauses" for pharmacists, yadda yadda, but what do you do when you can't reconcile your beliefs with the treatment that a patient/wants needs? You no longer have the luxury of just being an ordinary citizen who doesn't have to get involved.

                                                    Just curious....

                                                    Hi ssquared: I'm very religious (Christian). I believe in birth control. I don't agree with abortion, but it's not really something I'll be dealing with on a regular basis as far as I can tell (I view it as legalized killing of a child; I'm not going to encourage it, but on the other hand it is legal and there is pretty much nothing I can do about that other than not promote it). I just plan to focus on what I can do. It's not going to be a problem, as far as I can tell.
                                                     

                                                    DropkickMurphy

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                                                      I personally didn't feel any calling to medicine due to a religion. I'm guessing many present-day premeds are in a similar boat.

                                                      Not to hear some of the tools on this forum tell it. :rolleyes: Personally I think you should be required to check your religious beliefs at the door (or not take part in a case without anything that amounts to a glorified hissy fit). Why is that so damn hard?
                                                       

                                                      ssquared

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                                                        So it doesn't matter who's right and who has better spin? :laugh: Yup, that's America for you.....

                                                        Well, yeah. Because it's the people who don't understand science who are pushing for the addition of ID to the school curriculum. You don't find a lot of Ph.Ds out there saying creationism is a good idea, just like you don't find a lot of small town folks from Kansas pushing evolution. But when you have the Discovery Institute on your side (I like the idea of re-writing history... really, now that's sound scientific work) and lots-o-money, spin is what it comes down to. :rolleyes:
                                                         

                                                        baylormed

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                                                          The problem I have with science is that it is "bestowed upon you" by society the moment you're born. You have no choice. You are "forced" to learn/follow what science has been following in school. Anything remotely religious and people joke about you not believing in gravity.

                                                          Now, I know that you can choose your path later on in life after you graduate from the education system, but it just does not seem right to me.

                                                          Wish I could be less skeptical and blindly follow the "rationalizations" of empirical science... but I cannot bring myself to do it.


                                                          I wish I could follow your reasoning...but I can't.

                                                          You can't compare religion and science. You just can't. They are completely different fields.
                                                           

                                                          OncoCaP

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                                                            I myself have battled the same issues.

                                                            I respect how you've come to religion through a battle within yourself, rather than just accepting it blindly.

                                                            What I couldn't grasp about religion is the plurality of it all. There's so many sides that claim they are right, with similar intensity in faith on all different sides. There is no way all these strong wills of ''faith'' can be correct. Is islam right? is Christianity right? what is right.

                                                            I think if a God did exist why would it be tricking us with this plurality? The answer is not that ''He's testing your faith'' since its logically impossible for all the different religions to claim this (with all of them being correct at the same time).

                                                            If God is real, why does it try to delude us?

                                                            I personally didn't feel any calling to medicine due to a religion. I'm guessing many present-day premeds are in a similar boat. (I bet 50 years ago this would be different)

                                                            Sorted through similar issues. When it comes to plurality, I believe my religious is right and the other guy/gal is wrong (same as s/he does about my religion). However, I treat them the same way I would want to be treated -- i.e., be nice.

                                                            I feel called into medicine in a religious sense.
                                                             

                                                            Brown429

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                                                              The answers to those questions would be...DEATH!

                                                              I do not know what to think of it. Hell/heven, reincarnation and variations of that seem soo mythical. I mean, I hope there is something more in the end...while it may be cynical to think this way, I am just stepping back and thinking logically about it. And I wish I could have the mindset of some priests who are set on what is going to happen after death...almost like they are at peace. And of course moments before death some still fear of whats going to happen. I have always been science oriented, I cannot help but be skeptical without some sort of evidence. Still scientists and the like are religious. Idk...the big bang theory is not incorporated into any religion(?) that I have found and there is evidence for that...
                                                              Sorry if I am offending anyone..
                                                               

                                                              kyley3k

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                                                                I'd like to take the middle ground between deism and theism, God observes but never interferes. It seems pretty straight forward, but most people don't understand what I mean. Most people think that this means that prayer is meaningless, I think prayer is more reassurance. Anyone got a good word for this point of view? I'm sure it's out there, I'm just too lazy to look it up.
                                                                 

                                                                Stolenspatulas

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                                                                  The answers to those questions would be...DEATH!

                                                                  I do not know what to think of it. Hell/heven, reincarnation and variations of that seem soo mythical. I mean, I hope there is something more in the end...while it may be cynical to think this way, I am just stepping back and thinking logically about it. And I wish I could have the mindset of some priests who are set on what is going to happen after death...almost like they are at peace. And of course moments before death some still fear of whats going to happen. I have always been science oriented, I cannot help but be skeptical without some sort of evidence. Still scientists and the like are religious. Idk...the big bang theory is not incorporated into any religion(?) that I have found and there is evidence for that...
                                                                  Sorry if I am offending anyone..

                                                                  I think that when you die... poof! thats it.

                                                                  Why is that so hard to believe? Its not painful, its not happiness, its nothing, empty, neutral. You cease to exist. done.

                                                                  Before any of you were born you did not have any sense of existence. Think of it that way. Your existence again ends with death.
                                                                   

                                                                  kyley3k

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                                                                    Have you guys ever read the foundation books by Asimov? I kind of like that point of view. You don't really die in a sense, but you're part of a collective consiousness of the universe?
                                                                     

                                                                    DropkickMurphy

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                                                                      I think that when you die... poof! thats it.

                                                                      Why is that so hard to believe? Its not painful, its not happiness, its nothing, empty, neutral. You cease to exist. done.

                                                                      Before any of you were born you did not have any sense of existence. Think of it that way. Your existence again ends with death.
                                                                      And that belief makes life SO much simpler....particularly if you have to do something that would normally cause you to be "damned" by most mainstream religions.
                                                                       

                                                                      baylormed

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                                                                        I'd like to take the middle ground between deism and theism, God observes but never interferes. It seems pretty straight forward, but most people don't understand what I mean. Most people think that this means that prayer is meaningless, I think prayer is more reassurance. Anyone got a good word for this point of view? I'm sure it's out there, I'm just too lazy to look it up.

                                                                        The bolded words are the key.

                                                                        I don't like to get into theological arguments because we then enter the realm of the "I believe that God this" and "I believe that God that." It's all a matter of belief, of what religion you've been born into/accepted as your own, of what denomination within one religion you belong to, etc.

                                                                        These conversations come to a stop as soon as someone says "Well, it says so in MY bible" or "God told me so"...you are putting a barrier there right away that no one can contradict, simply because no one can prove it or disprove it, either.
                                                                         
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