Religion and Medicine

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

How would you classify YOURSELF. Definitions below in first post.

  • Theist

    Votes: 140 46.2%
  • Deist

    Votes: 28 9.2%
  • Atheist

    Votes: 102 33.7%
  • Other - Please explain

    Votes: 33 10.9%

  • Total voters
    303
I dunno. There's a lotta begats in there too.



Yes, that's right ... we make them so we can observe them ... hmmm ... I wonder what would happen if we took this RPG here and shot it over there??

Ok, boys and girls. Today, we are going to learn about RPG's and their cause and effect on open air markets as opposed to shopping malls.:scared: Which one do you think would sustain more carnage at peak shopping times? This is important because we need to know which makes a safer shopping environment. :eek:


You are dismissing my reasoning without giving it a chance. Thats up to you. Goodnight.

Members don't see this ad.
 
world war II is based on a lot of causes.... some cultural, which had basis in religion

science doesn't cause one to bomb Nagasaki. Thats akin to saying breathing causes me to kill someone (breathing lets me stay alive and thus I then retain the potential to kill someone, YET I DONT HAVE TO EXERCISE THAT POTENTIAL... in the same way science gives me the oppurtunity to create weapons, doesnt mean i have to use them)

You sound like Alfred Nobel. He invented dynamite as a construction aid and then was outraged and disgusted when they used it as a weapon. Then even more upset when people blamed him for the human destruction it caused. That's why he set up the Nobel prizes. To show that he was a proponent of peace and science.



I was replying to the statement earlier where you said religion causes one to use the bomb, science only makes it and doesn't use it. That's a little too much of a blanket statement. Sometimes it could be money or land that make someone use a weapon, and sometimes science's direct goal is creating a weapon with the intent of destruction. Just because they're not pulling the trigger or whatever doesn't absolve them from responsibility.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
well now you're boiling down to the nature of man.

i think of it this way. think of all the major conflicts in the world today. (go to CNN.com even). what is the basis for them? what is the underlining cause? many of the times its religion. It is hard to separate religion from a multiple factor problem (maybe its differences in culture that cause conflict?). Thats the hard part.

I'm just not sure that you're boiling it down far enough. I think that when stripped of our superego, humans are essentially brutal and selfish, just like every other animal out there. It's not a romantic notion, but I think it's legitimate. While I'll agree that religion has been used as an EXCUSE for many atrocities, I don't think religion was the CAUSE.
 
No supernatural force created the universe, but during the begining of the universe, god-like beings were created as well that influence, but do not control things.

*shrug* I never could come up with any other way to combine my beliefs in science with unexplained things out there.
 
My college roommate and I would walk around quoting Dressed to Kill all the time. I swear at one point I had the whole thing memorized word for word. The best part of Eddie Izzard is that it's really "smart" comedy. (in a sense ;) )

Yeah, but not so "smart" to the point of losing the audience, a la Dennis Miller. The non-literature majors can still keep up.
 
I'm just not sure that you're boiling it down far enough. I think that when stripped of our superego, humans are essentially brutal and selfish, just like every other animal out there. It's not a romantic notion, but I think it's legitimate. While I'll agree that religion has been used as an EXCUSE for many atrocities, I don't think religion was the CAUSE.

Very well put!
 
But without SDN, who would I talk to about medical school!

Oh wait... there wouldn't be medical school.

Oh God. Without science, I'd still be a single celled organism, because the lack of formal education would remove the selective pressures to develop a central nervous system.

AIEEE!

No, without science, you would be a hunter-gatherer-theologian living at equilibrium with the earth. Wait ... spears. Darn. You can't have spears. You would graze a like a deer on wild berries hoping you would not get eaten by your local bear (and say a prayer about that).
 
No, without science, you would be a hunter-gatherer-theologian living at equilibrium with the earth. Wait ... spears. Darn. You can't have spears. You would graze a like a deer on wild berries hoping you would not get eaten by your local bear (and say a prayer about that).

Is living at equilibrium with the earth a bad thing? Not that I can talk, typing on my laptop made from hydrocarbons and silicates, produced using noxious chemicals, powered by electricity which was produced by burning coal and oil and emitting chemicals into the atmosphere, etc....
 
You are dismissing my reasoning without giving it a chance. Thats up to you. Goodnight.

Yeah, I was having a little fun with that.

Like others have said, you don't need religion as a basis for murdering your neighbor. You just need a motive (greed, jealously, whatever) ... or sometimes not even a motive (manslaughter -- you were too high on meth and didn't know what was going on when you were shooting your AK-47 out the window).
 
Religion wouldn't work if they didn't indoctrinate you at an early age. If everyone was allowed to choose if they believed or not when they were old enough to actually be able to objectively think about it, no one in there right mind would fall for it.

This is certified garbage. There are plenty of atheists who became devout Christians in their 40s and Jews who became devout Muslims in their 20s and so on. Conversion between religions and between faith and non-faith can occur from the age of responsibility and conscience up until conscious death.
 
Is living at equilibrium with the earth a bad thing? Not that I can talk, typing on my laptop made from hydrocarbons and silicates, produced using noxious chemicals, powered by electricity which was produced by burning coal and oil and emitting chemicals into the atmosphere, etc....

Of course it's hard to know what life would be like exactly. We could be eaten by bears or parasites and just go extinct as well, of course. Science or its unscientific counsins -- dumb luck discovery -- are pretty closely associated with human life. Taking applied thought and belief away from humans makes them less than human, in my opinion.
 
Of course it's hard to know what life would be like exactly. We could be eaten by bears or parasites and just go extinct as well, of course. Science or its unscientific counsins -- dumb luck discovery -- are pretty closely associated with human life. Taking applied thought and belief away from humans makes them less than human, in my opinion.

eh, i'm probably just using the phrase 'equilibrium with earth' differently than you were using it. I don't think that endeavoring to maintain an equilibrium with the planet (as in, not radically altering the environment, apparently to it's detriment) means that we have to stop scientific reasoning, or advancement. It just means we should use our knowledge and ability responsibly.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
eh, i'm probably just using the phrase 'equilibrium with earth' differently than you were using it. I don't think that endeavoring to maintain an equilibrium with the planet (as in, not radically altering the environment, apparently to it's detriment) means that we have to stop scientific reasoning, or advancement. It just means we should use our knowledge and ability responsibly.

True, that's one thing that science is very good for ... starting with giving us clues when things are not in equilibrium.

At some point the science has to stop and the propaganda must begin: energy conservation, using clean energy ... along with with difficult value decisions (if we used dirty energy and processes we could save the lives of 1 million children but put others at unknown risk).
 
No, without science, you would be a hunter-gatherer-theologian living at equilibrium with the earth. Wait ... spears. Darn. You can't have spears. You would graze a like a deer on wild berries hoping you would not get eaten by your local bear (and say a prayer about that).

Actually, no, because a great many things were done in the fields of literature, art, music, architecture and engineering, government, and even invention before the scientific method became established. Civilization is not based on the scientific method: the scientific method is based on civilization. The fact that the physical world may be explained (to some degree) by science hardly means that science, as a discipline, had any essential role in the construction of essential civilization (it did not). In contrast, religion has ALWAYS had a pivotal role in the construction of essential civilization and there has never been a civilization founded in which religion has NOT played a major role. Whether it be the polytheism of the Egyptians, Sumerians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, Indians, and Chinese, or the monotheism of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Indeed, the two cultures that have had the most formative affect on the West have been the Greeks and the Jews. The Jews gave us just religion and ethics and the Greeks gave us everything else. And even so, it is difficult to say which has had the greater influence on the history of our civilization and indeed the world.
 
This is certified garbage. There are plenty of atheists who became devout Christians in their 40s and Jews who became devout Muslims in their 20s and so on. Conversion between religions and between faith and non-faith can occur from the age of responsibility and conscience up until conscious death.
Ah....I knew if we put blood in the water, sooner or later the Carcharadon carcharias of the brainlessly devout would show up. :laugh:
 
Actually, no, because a great many things were done in the fields of literature, art, music, architecture and engineering, government, and even invention before the scientific method became established. Civilization is not based on the scientific method: the scientific method is based on civilization. The fact that the physical world may be explained (to some degree) by science hardly means that science, as a discipline, had any essential role in the construction of essential civilization (it did not). In contrast, religion has ALWAYS had a pivotal role in the construction of essential civilization and there has never been a civilization founded in which religion has NOT played a major role. Whether it be the polytheism of the Egyptians, Sumerians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans, Indians, and Chinese, or the monotheism of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Indeed, the two cultures that have had the most formative affect on the West have been the Greeks and the Jews. The Jews gave us just religion and ethics and the Greeks gave us everything else. And even so, it is difficult to say which has had the greater influence on the history of our civilization and indeed the world.

I stand corrected. People accomplished quite a lot without the scientific method. A lot of what we attribute to science can simply be a product of trial and error, logical reasoning, etc. Thanks for reminding me of this important fact.

How do you know so much about this? Did you study history, philosophy, or theology?
 
Do you ever have anything remotely wise to say?

He provides essential comic relief! He's a smart guy tho'. Ask him a question and see if he can answer it. He may surprise you.
 
He provides essential comic relief! He's a smart guy tho' ask him a question and see if he can answer it. He may surprise you.
Thank you OncoCaP......I think :laugh:
 
This coming from a kid who once started a thread about how the real purpose of Christians is killing Jews and is now praising the Jews as contributing a lot to our society (which they have).

NO! I never said that. You falsely quoted me. I said the true aim of the Roman Catholic "church" and its spawn Islam was "killing Jews, true Christians aim" - i.e. the aim was to kill Jews and true Christians. But since you are illiterate, you were incapable of picking up those subtleties (actually, they are subtleties only to you).
 
"Carcharodon carcharias" Only Richard Dreyfuss can say those words.
 
NO! I never said that. You falsely quoted me. I said the true aim of the Roman Catholic "church" and its spawn Islam was "killing Jews, true Christians aim" - i.e. the aim was to kill Jews and true Christians. But since you are illiterate, you were incapable of picking up those subtleties (actually, they are subtleties only to you).
Actually, no they aren't subtle at all.....they are actually delusions and not even in the same ZIP code as 'subtle'. I'm not even going to point out the irony of the highlighted portion.....
 
"Carcharodon carcharias" Only Richard Dreyfuss can say those words.
OK.....fine.....Galeocerdo cuvieri .....is that better? Actually using either of those is an insult to a perfectly fine fish. Perhaps Phtheirichthys lineatus is more appropriate.....
 
NO! I never said that. You falsely quoted me. I said the true aim of the Roman Catholic "church" and its spawn Islam was "killing Jews, true Christians aim" - i.e. the aim was to kill Jews and true Christians. But since you are illiterate, you were incapable of picking up those subtleties (actually, they are subtleties only to you).

What do you mean by: Roman Catholic "church" and its spawn Islam? What's this all about? I'm not aware that the RC church spawned Islam.
 
What do you mean by: Roman Catholic "church" and its spawn Islam? What's this all about?

Just that. It means that I consider it to be a false church and that it founded Islam. But, let me say that I have no interest in further discussing that here (PM me if you wish) because I've previously been put on hold by small minded fools who don't tolerate non-PC/non-coddling comments.
 
OK.....fine.....Galeocerdo cuvieri .....is that better? Actually using either of those is an insult to a perfectly fine fish. Perhaps Phtheirichthys lineatus is more appropriate.....

Cyprinus carpio??
 
...just like you don't find a lot of small town folks from Kansas pushing evolution...

I agree but say "red states" instead of Kansas. Even though my homeland gets knocked for the high school curriculum thing (which goes back and forth between elections, BTW), Alabama puts disclaimers in their texts, and Oklahoma is much more of an evolution-hater. Kansas is in general one of the more accepting red states despite Brownback and the ex-distance runner who got sent to the canvas in November.

Religion wouldn't work if they didn't indoctrinate you at an early age. If everyone was allowed to choose if they believed or not when they were old enough to actually be able to objectively think about it, no one in there right mind would fall for it.

I'd love to hear you say this to my class. In fact, I'd pay to see it.

Frank Lloyd Wright: "I believe in God, only I spell God N-A-T-U-R-E."

I don't care what "religion" you are. Evolution is not something that needs to be proven--there is more evidence to support it than there is that the earth revolves around the sun (which also contradicts the Genesis notion that God put the sun in the sky to light the day and the moon in the sky to light the night, of course the plants came before that).

I have issues where I live when the students gasp when somebody mentions that pronephros are evolutionary remnants still seen in fish or that the palmaris longus has no human function and is used to operate claws that we no longer have.

People come to doctors for medical treatment. If they need spiritual treatment, they should go to clergy. Reproductive therapy? Either go home and pray for ovulation or accept that the nine babies coming out of your vag are the result of human technology and not God.
 
This thread reminds me of that game where you stand in a circle and whisper in the person on you left's ear then wait for the message to come back into your right ear. Whisper to my left, "are you Theistic, Deistic, or Atheistic" and then wait for the person on your right to whisper "Cyprinus carpio."
 
I've previously been put on hold by small minded fools who don't tolerate non-PC/non-coddling comments.
Why not go for the full out ban there Merry? :laugh: I'll donate money to SDN if that happens. :thumbup:
 
This thread reminds me of that game where you stand in a circle and whisper in the person on you left's ear then wait for the message to come back into your right ear. Whisper to my left, "are you Theistic, Deistic, or Atheistic" and then wait for the person on your right to whisper "Cyprinus carpio."
"No thread on SDN is complete until someone's mother has been called a common carp."- DKM
 
Just that. It means that I consider it to be a false church and that it founded Islam. But, let me say that I have no interest in further discussing that here (PM me if you wish) because I've previously been put on hold by small minded fools who don't tolerate non-PC/non-coddling comments.

Ah, ok. I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly. You seem intelligent enough to state your point of view in PC manner that seems acceptable to the moderators. Maybe you don't want to.
 
Hmmm I wonder how long till this thread gets closed?
 
Hmmm I wonder how long till this thread gets closed?


It's a seasonal feature on pre-allo. It comes around every 2-3 weeks (maybe more often -- I don't hang out here as much).
 
It's a seasonal feature on pre-allo. It comes around every 2-3 weeks (maybe more often -- I don't hang out here as much).


Ah. I'm fairly new here (Been a member of the forums for a long time, but only glanced at a few threads from time to time.)
 
Ah. I'm fairly new here (Been a member of the forums for a long time, but only glanced at a few threads from time to time.)

Yeah, I rolled my eyes when I saw people putting blood in the water on this this thread with certain questions/statements. Seems like people handled it pretty well so far. I guess there is a little bit of a troll in every SDNer.
 
Every once in awhile just throw in something related to medicine.

I will respect a patient's wishes to end their life, not suicide just DNRs and such-we're good for a while now
 
It's a seasonal feature on pre-allo. It comes around every 2-3 weeks (maybe more often -- I don't hang out here as much).
It's basically the forums equivalent of the "that time of the month". :laugh:
 
It's basically the forums equivalent of the "that time of the month". :laugh:


:laugh: :laugh: OK, I guess I should go to bed now, that seemed way funnier than it should have been!
 
"Never trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die" -Isn't that Mr. Garrison
 
Top