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religion

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by anwang, Feb 15, 2007.

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  1. anwang

    anwang Junior Member
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    Ok, I’m not trying to start anything here but I have heard that minorities have the upper hand in admissions right now. Well, I'm not a minority but I am of a religion that is a minority in the world of religions. Do you think that makes any diff in the application process?
     
  2. Quynh2007

    Quynh2007 the oracle of destiny
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    i doubt it. only because as of now, they only ask about your ethnicity, gender, etc. but they usually don't ask about religious affiliation, so people don't usually know what your religious beliefs are. if it has impacted you in a big way, i would mention it in your SoP or something like that.
     
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  3. RayneeDeigh

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    I'm Wiccan, and a couple of schools asked for statements regarding anything that made me "unique" including religion, ethnicity, handicap, yadda yadda. I wrote about my religion briefly since I've been in legal settings because of it but that didn't appear to help my application so far. lol.

    I'm pretty sure that most schools don't put much stock in "minority" religious status because while I've been Wiccan for ten years, anybody could say "oh yeah uh... I'm totally Buddhist" just for application purposes.
     
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  4. Pia Getty

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    Probably not, though it might be a nice facet in your personal statement. If your religious background has greatly influenced your own philosophy of life or career path and you feel it is an important part of who you are, you might strategically express it your statement. I say strategically because many individuals might recommend not playing the religion card. I think if you can do it in a way that emphasizes the philosophical aspects of your beliefs and how they connect to your professional orientation, it might make you stand out in regards to diversity. But then again your essays are probably written and submitted if your applying this year.
     
  5. psycholytic

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    Religion should not play a role in academia period. The only exeption would be theology; the field of study where it belongs. Definitely not psychology. It is disgusting enough how religious elements try to saturate academia.
    As I said before, lets go into churches , temples, etc. to pray stats !
    I do not want to meet "fellow" psychologists who preach about the man in the sky. PC is sooooo overdone and abused its not even worth a comment. This country will get into trouble because it tries to succumb to every element, instead of the greater good.

    This is beyond idiotic.

    And yes, you did try to start something.
     
  6. RayneeDeigh

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    I'm pretty sure they were just asking a question about what qualifies as a "minority" for application purposes.
     
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  7. psycholytic

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    And I hope the committee thinks the same way I do;-give a **** about religion. Minority becomes a more and more rediculous term. Since when should ones religion qualify for being accepted as a minority. Pfffffff, whatever, I am getting tired of these undeveloped thoughts.
     
  8. RayneeDeigh

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    I'm sure the individual opinions are as varied as the people themselves.

    I just don't think this person was trying to start anything, that's all I'm saying.
     
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  9. psycholytic

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    Are you that person's spokeshole?

    If you have a problem with what I said address it directly. If it is about YOUR religion, it would not surprise me.

    I am out of this one, getting tired of religious crap.
     
  10. RayneeDeigh

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    Actually I was just trying to help since you seemed a little hostile in your reply. Have you had a rough day or something?

    I mean, we're all here to get information from each other right? That's all this person was doing.
     
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  11. psycholytic

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    Don't talk for other's, speak for yourself.
     
  12. RayneeDeigh

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    You're getting a little rude so I'll leave you alone.

    It's just a shame that people are probably reading this and they have genuine questions to ask but now they probably won't 'cause they're afraid to deal with this.
     
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  13. Quynh2007

    Quynh2007 the oracle of destiny
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    next questions going to be...um...

    I'm in a frat/sorority...that's a minority right? will this help me? (btw, I am in a sorority :p )
     
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  14. Psych_Ho

    Psych_Ho Lurking in the shadows...
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    Religious affiliation is not included in the "minority" status question, generally speaking. Being of ethnic/racial minority group status, however, might "help" in the sense that there is a serious need for more psychologists from these backgrounds. There are also often specific fellowships/ stipends that only individuals from these groups can be considered for and they need to know whom to consider.

    Religion does have a place in psychology. In fact, there are folks who study religious beliefs and religiosity in relation to psychological functioning. Some clinicians specialize in being Christian therapists - just one example of the intersection between religion and psychology. And for ANY clinician, it is very important for any patient he or she is working with that the clinician is aware of the patient's religious background, beliefs, and the role it plays in the patient's life. Not only for "spiritual" purposes, but because it can also be a significant source of social support for the individual, etc.

    As with any personal value system or beliefs, etc- one cannot say there is "no" place whatsoever for it in psychology. Simply disavowing something that plays such an enormous role in so many people's lives would be a disservice to the patient and to psychology in general.

    Keep in mind- the first person many individuals may go speak with when they start to have difficulties is a pastor, priest, rabbi, etc.

    I think it is important on this forum for folks to be able to express their opinions in a respectful manner without fear of reproach. I don't know if it is all the stress of applications and so forth that is getting to some of you all, but please try to remember that we're not on here to get into arguments of a personal nature....
     
  15. SteelMariposa

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  16. GiantSteps

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    I strongly advise keeping your religious preferences concealed. You see the type of undeserved criticism you get from the people here just for asking a legitimate question of if your religion qualifies as a status of minority or adds to one's diversity.

    PsychHo was right that there are many psychologist who study religion as well they should. All aspects of culture need to be considered in understanding why humans behave and think the way they do. The strict departmentalization of academia which seems to be advocated by many of the posters here is a thing of the past. The rigid boundaries of academia are falling everywhere. The collaboration of all departments in study (psychology, physics, math, theology, philosophy, etc.) must be encouraged if knowledge is to advance.

    However, I did come accross a study by a Hofstra professor which stated that a large proportion, I do not have the numbers at hand, of psychologists do not believe in a higher spiritual being nor do they connect to a religion. Whether or not this is good or bad is irrelevant. The only thing a religious applicant should keep in mind is that religion is not something of which psychology professors/ academics tend to think highly. As an applicant you want to show that you are unique but not in anyway eccentric.

    One more thing, if one is really driven by the philosophy or their religion, you might want to investigate Dusquene University's clinical psychology program in Pittsburgh. I have not seen any information on people here applying there. The reason is because Dusquene is existential in nature and very philosophical. Not at all going by the main stream psychology is a science sterility model.
     
  17. dakwegmo

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    Psych_Ho, I couldn't agree with you more.

    anwang, as has already been said, I don't think religion makes someone a minority. Because it would be so easy to change religions, or simply claim affiliation with a minority religion, it's not a very reliable method of establishing someone's background. I could have been part of the biggest religion in the world one day then the next start my own, thereby becoming a member of the smallest minority group possible.

    If you think that religion has in some way shaped you and prepared you for graduate work then you should definitely mention it, but don't expect it to be your ticket in.
     
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  18. psycholytic

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  19. NeuroPsyStudent

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    Psycholitic,

    Is this a serious post, or are you being sarcastic? If you are serious then I would suggest that you spend some time meeting people of different faiths, particularly if you plan to work as a clinical psychologist. Many of your patients will be religious and for many of them their faith will be an important part of their healing. And what will you do when confronted with therapies that are derived from religious practice such as the various mindfulness-based approaches? DBT is considered an EBT these days and it was in part inspired by Buddhism.
     
  20. GiantSteps

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    Psycholytic,

    This Thread is not about the veracity of religion. It is just about whether or not one's religious beliefs and practices add to ones diversity. There are countless beliefs, customs, and practices which stem from religions. This can't be ignored in terms of diversity any more than one's country of origin, race, sex, or sexual orientation. Sure, for some people, religion means little more than a day off from work once a year or a chance to give a present. However, for other (e.g. Amish, devout Muslims, Chassidic Jews, and Buddhists just to name a few) all aspects of their lives are influenced by their religion from the way they dress to the way they eat. It is immaterial for the purposes of our discussion whether or not any of these people are right and wrong. Rather just how in fact this makes people different and to what extent they may or may not be accepted/ viewed by schools. This type of religious diversity is certainly important to the foundations of the United States which is why the founders of the U.S. Constitution chose to list religious freedom as a right (you don't reject the U.S. Constitution too?). A world in which everyone is the same is not interesting. A reading of Ayn Rand will attest to this.


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." by Robert Pirsig[/quote]

    Pscyholytic, did you pull this quote from a quote book? The author of Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance is hardly an authoritative source on the validity of religion in general. Besides, in 1979, Pirsig's son Chris, who is a aslo a character in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, was stabbed to death during a mugging. Pirsig writes about this this in an afterword to later editions of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He describes how he and his second spouse Kimball decided not to abort the child she conceived in 1980, because he had come to believe that this unborn child was a continuation of the life pattern that Chris had occupied. This child is Pirsig's daughter Nell.

    Hmm, reincarnation! Does anyone think Pirsig originated this concept or do you think he may have borrowed it from thousands of years of documented religious thought? Doesn't say much for you source, does it? Maybe if you had attended a school which taught you how to think, respect others, and carry on an intelligible dialogue you would have researched you statements better.

    Here is a better witty quote for you to learn (It even once appeared on a Time Magazine).

    " "God is dead." - Nietzche

    "Nietzche is dead." - God "

    God keeps outlasting His most vocal opponents. It is unrealistic to think religion is going away even if you are an atheist. It does not even make much sense to me to classify all different religions together accept for protection of Constitutional Rights. However, since psychologists study human thought and behavior, it is idiotic to ignore the human thoughts and behavior which are occuring on a wide spread basis and which happen to be derived from religion.

    I feel sorry for you not because of your rejection of religion (which is Psycholytic's right) but for the vehement and unhealthy antipathy you express. Perhaps, a reactive formation! (In Freudian terms, Psycholytic longs to find friends, religions, a meaningful existence and can 't stand the fact that there are religious people who have what he doesn't).

    Perhaps all the religious people here can pray for Psycholytic's well being and mental stability. Also, that Psycholytic's future education makes up for these shortcomings. And if that does not work, does any know a good psychologist who can work with Psycholytic?
     
  21. psycholytic

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    Pscyholytic, did you pull this quote from a quote book? The author of Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance is hardly an authoritative source on the validity of religion in general. Besides, in 1979, Pirsig's son Chris, who is a aslo a character in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, was stabbed to death during a mugging. Pirsig writes about this this in an afterword to later editions of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He describes how he and his second spouse Kimball decided not to abort the child she conceived in 1980, because he had come to believe that this unborn child was a continuation of the life pattern that Chris had occupied. This child is Pirsig's daughter Nell.

    Hmm, reincarnation! Does anyone think Pirsig originated this concept or do you think he may have borrowed it from thousands of years of documented religious thought? Doesn't say much for you source, does it? Maybe if you had attended a school which taught you how to think, respect others, and carry on an intelligible dialogue you would have researched you statements better.

    Here is a better witty quote for you to learn (It even once appeared on a Time Magazine).

    " "God is dead." - Nietzche
    [COLOR="Blue"]btw, [/COLOR]he is spelled Nietzsche, just to freshen your knowledge

    "Nietzche is dead." - God "

    God keeps outlasting His most vocal opponents. It is unrealistic to think religion is going away even if you are an atheist. It does not even make much sense to me to classify all different religions together accept for protection of Constitutional Rights. However, since psychologists study human thought and behavior, it is idiotic to ignore the human thoughts and behavior which are occuring on a wide spread basis and which happen to be derived from religion.

    I feel sorry for you not because of your rejection of religion (which is Psycholytic's right) but for the vehement and unhealthy antipathy you express. Perhaps, a reactive formation! (In Freudian terms, Psycholytic longs to find friends, religions, a meaningful existence and can 't stand the fact that there are religious people who have what he doesn't).

    Perhaps all the religious people here can pray for Psycholytic's well being and mental stability. Also, that Psycholytic's future education makes up for these shortcomings. And if that does not work, does any know a good psychologist who can work with Psycholytic?[/QUOTE]



    Thanks for exposing yourself once more as one of the many who rely on myth and arrogance as the follower of the invisible. It's just always the same with people like you. In regards to the stuff you wrote above; it goes along with interpreting beliefs into a self-made concept that derives from the origin religion does.
    By the way, an even better quote is the following, but I know that ignorance will keep you on your track and you will come up with an explanation that tries to outdo people who are worlds apart from you intellectually. As I mentioned before; religion keeps one dumb. You can pray all you want that won't change a thing in this world, only in your delusion.

    "If he is infinitely good, what reason should we have to fear him? If he is infinitely wise, why should we have doubts concerning our future? If he knows all, why warn him of our needs and fatigue him with our prayers? If he is everywhere, why erect temples to him? If he is just, why fear that he will punish the creatures that he has filled with weaknesses? If grace does everything for them, what reason would he have for recompensing them? If he is all-powerful, how offend him, how resist him? If he is reasonable, how can he be angry at the blind, to whom he has given the liberty of being unreasonable? If he is immovable, by what right do we pretend to make him change his decrees? If he is inconceivable, why occupy ourselves with him? IF HE HAS SPOKEN, WHY IS THE UNIVERSE NOT CONVINCED? If the knowledge of a God is the most necessary, why is it not the most evident and the clearest?"

    Percy Bysshe Shelley, Thomas Jefferson Hogg.
     
  22. psycholytic

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    Pscyholytic, did you pull this quote from a quote book? The author of Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance is hardly an authoritative source on the validity of religion in general. Besides, in 1979, Pirsig's son Chris, who is a aslo a character in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, was stabbed to death during a mugging. Pirsig writes about this this in an afterword to later editions of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He describes how he and his second spouse Kimball decided not to abort the child she conceived in 1980, because he had come to believe that this unborn child was a continuation of the life pattern that Chris had occupied. This child is Pirsig's daughter Nell.

    Hmm, reincarnation! Does anyone think Pirsig originated this concept or do you think he may have borrowed it from thousands of years of documented religious thought? Doesn't say much for you source, does it? Maybe if you had attended a school which taught you how to think, respect others, and carry on an intelligible dialogue you would have researched you statements better.

    Here is a better witty quote for you to learn (It even once appeared on a Time Magazine).

    " "God is dead." - Nietzche

    he is spelled Nietzsche, just to freshen your knowledge "Nietzche is dead." - God "

    God keeps outlasting His most vocal opponents .Because an intelligent being can't argue against a delusion that is being nurtured in order to serve as a cane to the weak.[/COLOR] It is unrealistic to think religion is going away even if you are an atheist. Do you really understand what that means? Atheists do not belief, so they are not waiting for a belief to go away, they look at that construct differently. It does not even make much sense to me to classify all different religions together accept for protection of Constitutional Rights. However, since psychologists study human thought and behavior, it is idiotic to ignore the human thoughts and behavior which are occuring on a wide spread basis and which happen to be derived from religion. Please read the formerly mentioned phrase again in regards to thios statement. BTW, it does not mean that you hold the truth because many others go in that same direction. That is also a "mis-belief".

    I feel sorry for you not because of your rejection of religion (which is Psycholytic's right) but for the vehement and unhealthy antipathy you express. Perhaps, a reactive formation! (In Freudian terms, Psycholytic longs to find friends, religions, a meaningful existence and can 't stand the fact that there are religious people who have what he doesn't).

    Perhaps all the religious people here can pray for Psycholytic's well being and mental stability. Also, that Psycholytic's future education makes up for these shortcomings. And if that does not work, does any know a good psychologist who can work with Psycholytic?[/QUOTE]

    Not even worth a comment, since it would be trying to fight the delusion .
     
  23. Logic Prevails

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    Psycholytic: I think you could argue why a clinical psychologist should not be practicing within a religious framework without trying to convert people. Your approach here is that of an atheiest trying to force your views on others... with the sheer percentages of people who are religious, the only thing you are going to do is piss people off and alienate yourself (not to mention loose a lot of clients).

    Chill man.
     
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  24. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    I'd like to redirect this topic, so it doesn't continue down the current path.

    If we can talk about how religion plays a role in the CLINICAL world, then I think we can keep this open. As clinicians we will run into religion very frequently, and how we handle it can impact our ability to provide effective therapy. Talking about RELIGION as a way to bash it under the veil of a 'clinical' discussion is not something that is appropriate for this forum.

    I hope everyone can come back to the topic of how religion plays a role in our clinical work, and how we as clinicians balance our beliefs (whatever they may be), with those of our patients/clients.

    *edit* I mistook the OPs topic, my mistake. It was about religion and the application process, and if it makes a difference.

    -t
     
  25. NeuroPsyStudent

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    Psycholitic,

    I suggest that you take a break from commenting on this thread. Your comments reveal your "young-ness" on this issue and you do not understand why people are challenging you. It has nothing to do with their belief or non-belief in God, but has everything to with empathy with clients and a much more complicated world of religion than you have experienced (or are willing to hold in mind).

    Daniel Siegal refers to flexibility (lack of rigidity) as a key to mental health. Not that we psychologists always must be modicums of mental health, but flexibility of thinking is pretty important when helping people. We respect your atheist beliefs, but are concerned about your defensive/inflexible nature and how that will impact your work.
     
  26. RayneeDeigh

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    I agree with the above 2 replies. I don't know what I would do if I went into therapy and the topic of religion came up, and my therapist called me arrogant for wanting to believe in something.

    While part of me is slightly annoyed by the fact that quite a number of grad schools have a "Christian" leaning, I think one of my favourite aspects of the field of Psychology is its desire to train people who are open-minded and respectful of others' beliefs or at least their right not to believe.

    I believe the whole point of therapy is to be the host of an environment where a person can feel comfortable enough to make changes that work for THEM. I don't believe that the therapist's personal views have much of a place in a therapy setting.

    This thread has also (I think) reinforced the need for Psychologists themselves to get therapy. Everyone obviously has their own personal issues and it's very important to learn not to let them affect other people or oneself in a negative way.

    Psycholytic, I know it's annoying to be preached to. I've lost jobs because of what religion I choose to belong to, so I can imagine what it's like to be frustrated when someone is telling you to believe in something that you don't. But nobody here has said that you should be a religious person, we're all just saying that you should respect the rights of others to be whatever they choose to be. You will run into many clients who are jewish, catholic, buddhist, and everything else under the sun... and I hope that by the time that happens, you'll be able to empathize with them rather than call them arrogant.
     
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  27. psycholytic

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    As always, its quite the opposite; others trying to impose religion on people who are sick and tired of hearing about it. I also don't want to hear about UFO's. And I think psychologists , different than priests, (otherwise become a priest) should not be involved in this kind of thinking. It is mixing two things together that don't go together.
    But if you like a mixture of science and delusion go ahead, just don't try to convince me that it's the best thing since sliced bread.
    I also find it revealing how people think, one would deiscuss all the stuff we discuss herte , with clients, but...oh well, as I said, belief is endless.
     
  28. psycholytic

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    I know, we are all friends. You misunderstood my posts.

    One example; I am not frustrated that I am often being preached at; I find it offensive and dumb. That's why I usually never preach at others. Since this is (at least I thought it was) a forum for psychology, I was under the impression that you guys are not my clients and that we could talk here differently. But some of you sure behave like clients. BTW your posts shows that you did not understand a thing I said.
     
  29. psycholytic

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    Psycholytic, I know it's annoying to be preached to. I've lost jobs because of what religion I choose to belong to (you got to be kiddin, and you still pretend you don't see) say so I can imagine what it's like to be frustrated when someone is telling you to believe in something that you don't. But nobody here has said that you should be a religious person, we're all just saying (amount doesn't count, don't talk in collective terms) that you should respect the rights of others to be whatever they choose to be. You will run into many clients who are jewish, catholic, buddhist, and everything else under the sun... and I hope that by the time that happens, you'll be able to empathize with them rather than call them arrogant.You did not understand squad [/QUOTE]
     
  30. psycholytic

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    I would go ahead and close it if it is too challenging for you. That would be an expected reaction. Anyway, it appears that there isn't enough brain and backbone material here to discuss this issue with. It is just amazing how deeply people, who become , or are psychologists are focused on their own delusions. It is scary to think that these individuals try to help others, since they are the ones who constantly try (most of the time not even being aware of) to impose their state of mind on others, including clients. It probably all comes down to a post within another thread, where some of these guys talked about being mediocre. Well, they are.

    That's all for right now. Close it, otherwise I will continue to fight their delusional state , since I think they should not be doing what they are doing. I think they should all take another 20 years off and think the topic through before they post their unfinished remarks, or study theology and become priests.

    Well, I will go ahead and talk to people who better understand the world around them. You guys have a nice delusional life you can share with your clients in something that would qualify as mutual delusional therapy.

    Very unintelligent indeed.
     
  31. psycholytic

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    You also did not understand what this is about. Neuro-psych, huh? Do you make those leap assumptions (defensive/inflexible nature and how that will impact your work) in your daily life as well?
    As I said, you did not understand , (as don't 99% of this population so you are in good company) what this is about.

    Educate yourself before you make statements that mean nothing.

    "There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out."
     
  32. perfektspace

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    All good points.

    To the OP: For those applying to work with Prof's who look at religion it certainly makes sense to talk about how your interest/experience will contribute to their line of research. It is also important to be open minded about religious beliefs given your clients will undoubtedly bring these issues to the table. A lack of knowledge or understanding will limit you effectiveness as a clinician.

    Otherwise I would strongly recommend staying away from personal religious belief in you statement. It's no secret academia trends toward liberal secularism and talking about your religion will open up many more questions/doubts than you can address in a 2 page statement.

    I am very tempted to delve into the secondary-nihilistic-eurotrash debate that has sprouted but others seem to have straightened things out nicely.:love:
     
  33. RayneeDeigh

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    That's just offensive and unnecessarily hurtful. There's no need to call anybody mediocre when we're already going through a stressful time with applications, interviews, rejections, etc. We could argue about religion until the cows come home but as someone already said, this is not the time nor the place to do so. The original poster just asked a question about what schools mean when they ask for disclosure of anything that makes one a minority. It was an honest question, a good question, and certainly not a disrespectful question.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  34. psycholytic

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    The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science

    "The enlightenment is under threat. So is reason. So is truth. So is science, especially in the schools of America. I am one of those scientists who feels that it is no longer enough just to get on and do science. We have to devote a significant proportion of our time and resources to defending it from deliberate attack from organized ignorance. We even have to go out on the attack ourselves, for the sake of reason and sanity. But it must be a positive attack, for science and reason have so much to give. They are not just useful, they enrich our lives in the same kind of way as the arts do." - Dawkins
     
  35. perfektspace

    perfektspace Member
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    :sleep:

    The Big Lebowski

    "We are nihilists we don't care about anything"
     
  36. psycholytic

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    You obviously don't know what the word nihilism means, since you contradicted yourself.
    Thanks for making my point.:D
     
  37. NeuroPsyStudent

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  38. perfektspace

    perfektspace Member
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    It's a joke. Ha ha.
     
  39. psycholytic

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    Boah, how embarrassing. I know it was intendet to be a joke, but you didn't use it correctly.:(
     
  40. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    There is no need to insult myself or others on the forum.

    You are mistaken. If and when you go down the clinical road, you'll understand your misconception, and how it actually goes against much of how we do what we do.

    That is some pretty rigid thinking. I think an awareness of the range of religions out there is very important. Denying it and refusing to work with it is short-sighted. The majority of people out there are influenced by religion, and to be a competent and effective clinician....a person needs to be able to account for these influences.

    folie à deux?

    That'd be quite the sight.

    -p
     
  41. psycholytic

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    Interesting to see how narrow minded the responses are when it gets to a real challenge, lol
     
  42. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    This thread has run far far off course, outside of what is relevant for this forum. I'd hope in the future that people can be respectful of the OPs topic, and not intentionally side-track a thread.

    If there are any additional comments, I'd request they be PM'd to myself of pscisci.

    -t
     
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