religious belief

[FormerCorpsman]

Well the Mormons had an extermination order placed on them in Missouri, which was not lifted until 1978. And yes I am a Mormon. We are Christians but I guess most people think we are not. I don't understand why though. Is it because we believe in prophets and apostles?

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[seelee]

nothing you said offended me. Just that to claim religious discrimination when you live in a state where nearly 60% of the population practices the same faith seems a bit rich (i.e. claiming adcom backlash for prop 8).

Right, O.K. misunderstanding then. I attended undergraduate at BYU, but I applied to Schools in Texas (the state where I reside) as well as several east and west coast schools. I only got interviews in Texas.

Moreover, I did not mean to suggest that the reason I did not get interviewed/accepted at a given school was due to religious discrimination. Rather I was emphasizing that to try to cover up or hide your religious views in order to appear more appealing to adcoms is wrong, and that if your religous views are so meaningful, why go to a school where any religiousity would be looked down upon.

 

[seelee]

fair enough. Not to be too trollish, but please outline a specific incidence where you (or anyone else) was discriminated against b/c of your religion. Seems to me that these claims are rather nebulous in nature as in all calif schools discriminate against BYU grads b/c of prop 8.

Can't help you there. I never claimed to receive any sort of discrimination because of my faith. In fact, as I've discussed above, I think it has only helped my application. Maybe seelee can help.

Nobody has ever told me "you were not selected for such and such a position because of your religion."

Not to suggest that such discrimination never happens but only that I am not aware of it.

By no means have any doors been closed to me because of my religion, at least not any doors I have tried to go through...perhaps if I tried to run for president...

 

[seelee]

Now, I know seelee has gotten quite a bit of flak here, and I'm not trying to pile on, because I thought his post was largely well-thought-out and made sense. Except for the part above. Certainly, there are people who will judge you for being Christian. But it's LUDICROUS to suggest that Christians are "especially" harshly judged or persecuted. There's probably no religious group in the world, and certainly not in the U.S., that is less discriminated against than Christians. And I would argue that the choice to be non-religious is far more likely to invite judgment in our society than the choice to be religious (can you imagine, say, an atheist getting elected to a major public office?).

Now, I can see where seelee's perspective could be a bit skewed because he belongs to a particular sect of Christianity that is viewed with a bit of skepticism by much of the rest of the country, so he may feel the heat more than most. But painting Christianity as some reviled underdog of the religious U.S. is way out of wack.

I think in politics you are correct, however in intellectual and academic circles where liberalism is dominant, being an avowed christian can be hazardous.

 

[pdeco1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20M9ywn7Zgs

 

[Shawnpremed]

Would it be acceptable (not hurt your
Sorry if offtopic, but is this any different from expressing views on abortion?

And if similary asked to discuss abortion views..?

 

[Bearferret]

I think in politics you are correct, however in intellectual and academic circles where liberalism is dominant, being an avowed christian can be hazardous.

I don't buy it. Again, there are certainly people who will discriminate against Christians. However, I'd be willing to bet that there are still more Christians in "intellectual and academic circles" in America than there are of any other religious group (including the non-religious).

I don't doubt that you've been on the receiving end of some contempt or disdain from non-religious people, especially here on this message board, where atheism is more common than in the general population (though still, probably, less common than Christianity), and people feel empowered by their anonymity to be jerks to one another. But I think you're still overstating this perceived anti-Christian bias in the academic realm.

 

[megamega]

I mentioned my religion on almost all of my interviews and I still got lots of acceptances, so I don't think it matters.

 

[majahops]

Organized religion is weak sauce. One of the reasons is because it creates an "us" versus "them." Non-religious people just think of everyone as "us," there just happen to be some "us"es who have decided to be parts of organized sub-socities, worshiping deities and reading man-made books claimed to be the works of Gods.

I don't have any malice toward religious people, just for the lowest form of group-think they've fallen into.

 

[megamega]

Organized religion is weak sauce. One of the reasons is because it creates an "us" versus "them." Non-religious people just think of everyone as "us," there just happen to be some "us"es who have decided to be parts of organized sub-socities, worshiping deities and reading man-made books claimed to be the works of Gods.

I don't have any malice toward religious people, just for the lowest form of group-think they've fallen into.

Religion does not create an "us" versus "them" mentality. People who live in New York even call themselves New Yorkers, just like people in Texas call themselves Texans, but this doesn't separate them as people or Americans. It sounds like your comment was simply meant to show your malice.

 

[StIGMA]

Organized [politics] is weak sauce. One of the reasons is because it creates an "us" versus "them." Non-[political] people just think of everyone as "us," there just happen to be some "us"es who have decided to be parts of organized sub-socities, worshiping [politicians] and reading man-made books claimed to be the works of [superior politicians].

I don't have any malice toward [political] people, just for the lowest form of group-think they've fallen into.

Everyone play! This can be fun.

 

[majahops]

The second part of my comment was just as important as the first.

Look, arguing with a religious person about the idiocy of being religious is pointless, it's impossible to win. Anybody who's tried knows that.

I'm sure you're strong in your convictions, and more power to you, I guess. I don't want to attack you or try to bring you down.

I should have just said organized religion is weak sauce and left it at that. And as a reference I should have put "See: All the people who have died in the name of it."

Religion does not create an "us" versus "them" mentality. People who live in New York even call themselves New Yorkers, just like people in Texas call themselves Texans, but this doesn't separate them as people or Americans. It sounds like your comment was simply meant to show your malice.

 

[majahops]

heyyy this is fun!

Organized [crime] is weak sauce. One of the reasons is because it creates an "us" versus "them." Non-[criminals] just think of everyone as "us," there just happen to be some "us"es who have decided to be parts of organized sub-socities, worshiping deities and reading man-made books claimed to be the works of [mob bosses].

I don't have any malice toward [criminals], just for the lowest form of group-think they've fallen into.

 

[StIGMA]

The second part of my comment was just as important as the first.

Look, arguing with a [political] person about the idiocy of being [political] is pointless, it's impossible to win. Anybody who's try knows that.

I'm sure you're strong in your convictions, and more power to you, I guess. I don't want to attack you or try to bring you down.

I should have just said organized [politics] is weak sauce and left it at that. And as a reference I should have put "See: All the people who have died in the name of it."

You do not have a very firm basis for your arguments against religion when they can be applied so easily to other common necessities of (modern-day) human life.

 

[majahops]

Ahh whatever man, it's a lose-lose situation trying to point out the problems with organized religion to a religious person. I feel bad you don't see it and I feel bad that I attacked you. Lose Lose.

You do not have a very firm basis for your arguments against religion when they can be applied so easily to other common necessities of modern-day life.

 

[StIGMA]

In an effort to curtail this into a reasonable discussion, I do agree with you that there are forms of organized religion that have propensities to become self-righteous and exert themselves on people who would rather not be bothered. Is this a problem if there is no violence/etc? How is this any different than politics or anything else that is organized around an idea not based on a deity?

I fault you on basing your arguments at the core beliefs of religious people yet pretending that the societal outcomes of those beliefs are any different than other permissible forms of identity, organization, and free speech.

 

[majahops]

Your problem, if I may identify one at such an early stage in our acquaintance, is that you are so keen to intellectualizing and philosophizing that you don't look at the basic idea of being part of an organized RELIGION. It's a ridiculous idea. Ridiculous. There have been volumes and volumes written on WHY it is ridiculous, and that hasn't persuaded the religious... so for me to sit here and carefully document some of them would be a waste of time. Besides, I'm sure you've been told them time and time again. Most people would be too simple-minded to hear the points, but you, my friend, I would guess are too intellectual to realize how fundamentally ******ed organized religion is.

 

[majahops]

But I should mention that while being part of an organized religion is utterly ******ed in my mind, I don't feel it should keep you out of medical school. Nor would I use it against a student if I were on the admissions committee.

"God" knows I've made plenty of ******ed decisions of my own in this life.

 

[megamega]

Your problem, if I may identify one at such an early stage in our acquaintance, is that you are so keen to intellectualizing and philosophizing that you don't look at the basic idea of being part of an organized RELIGION. It's a ridiculous idea. Ridiculous. There have been volumes and volumes written on WHY it is ridiculous, and that hasn't persuaded the religious... so for me to sit here and carefully document some of them would be a waste of time. Besides, I'm sure you've been told them time and time again. Most people would be too simple-minded to hear the points, but you, my friend, I would guess are too intellectual to realize how fundamentally ******ed organized religion is.

It sounds to me like you discriminate against people because of their religion. I don't see how your attitude is any different than sexism or racism. You categorize an entire group of people as ridiculous or ******ed just because they are different than yourself. Most people have moved past such discrimination and so should you.

 

[majahops]

Ok. I just have. Thanks for liberating me.

p.s. megaman rox! ahh I wish I was 10 y/o playing video games without a care in the world again. sigh.

It sounds to me like you discriminate against people because of their religion. I don't see how your attitude is any different than sexism or racism. You categorize an entire group of people as ridiculous or ******ed just because they are different than yourself. Most people have moved past such discrimination and so should you.

 

[starfishprime]

It sounds to me like you discriminate against people because of their religion.

...which happens to be exactly what you do to non-christians.

Hell, I'll say it flat out - I discriminate against people because of their religion (any religion); it's a corollary of my discrimination against people of vastly lesser ability to reason and think rationally.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just possessed by your devil.

In the mean time, keep fighting the good fight majahops.

 

[DrSno]

I my application, I listed my serving as a missionary for the LDS (mormon) church as volunteer/leadership experience.

FLDS is the way to go.
Do you ever watch Big Love?
I agree with Christopher Hitchens (and most Americans) that mormonism is even more nutty and built on fraud than other sects of christianity.

 

[starfishprime]

mormonism is even more nutty and built on fraud than other sects of christianity.

Of course, they just took christianity, which is insane enough, then added another crazy bit about digging up some magical tablets from an Indian burial ground guarded by the benevolent she-dragon Boloni.

 

[seelee]

Organized [bowling leagues are] weak sauce. One of the reasons is because it creates an "us" versus "them." Non-[bowling] people just think of everyone as "us," there just happen to be some "us"es who have decided to be parts of organized sub-socities, worshiping [professional bowlers] and reading man-made books [on how to role the perfect strike].

I don't have any malice toward [bowlers], just for the lowest form of group-think they've fallen into.

You're right! This is fun.

 

[seelee]

FLDS is the way to go.
Do you ever watch Big Love?
I agree with Christopher Hitchens (and most Americans) that mormonism is even more nutty and built on fraud than other sects of christianity.

I seem to remember a few posts back where everyone thought that the idea of a Christian being ridiculed for his/her beliefs was ridiculous.

I wonder what the response would have been if I had talked in my PS about my experience being a gay man in middle America. If anybody had dared to say anything about my beliefs or lifestyle choice they would have been crucified in the public square.

This just proves that in so called "intellectual circles" bigotry is not dead. It is perfectly o.k. to be bigoted and intolerant to christian people.

Not that I mind so much. Dr Sno and I have already gone the rounds in an abortion debate, and rather than address the obvious holes in his logic, he started caterwauling because we were so unsofisticated compared to him, and that he wasn't going to bother trying to reason with us.

Oh, and he has a flippin Gilmore Girls picture on his profile...

 

[Forbes]

I enjoy is how both sides seem to think the other is a lesser human for not agreeing with them. If you are religious you "subscribe to group think" and "cannot make rational decisions". I believe that most doctors in this country are religious, do they make decisions that are not rational?

On the flipside, lack of faith does not make someone an lesser human. You don't have to live by the ten commandments to live a moral life where you help further the progress of the human race.

What makes me sick is how people here project themselves as "tolerant" and "intellectual" here yet when Religion/Politics is brought up we are reduced to neanderthals.

 

[guestdoc]

Of course, they just took christianity, which is insane enough, then added another crazy bit about digging up some magical tablets from an Indian burial ground guarded by the benevolent she-dragon Boloni.

Keeping it real and constructive, I see.

 

[seelee]

I enjoy is how both sides seem to think the other is a lesser human for not agreeing with them. If you are religious you "subscribe to group think" and "cannot make rational decisions". I believe that most doctors in this country are religious, do they make decisions that are not rational?

On the flipside, lack of faith does not make someone an lesser human. You don't have to live by the ten commandments to live a moral life where you help further the progress of the human race.

What makes me sick is how people here project themselves as "tolerant" and "intellectual" here yet when Religion/Politics is brought up we are reduced to neanderthals.

Taking this thread as a general example, I can't find a single post where a religious person is criticizing a non-religious person for his beliefs or lack thereof.

 

[Forbes]

Outside of this thread, I believe that discrimination against atheists would be more prevalent, but you are correct.

I am just showing the bigotry involved in discriminating from either viewpoint, and I hope that others can see my point.

 

[majahops]

How do you criticize somebody for admitting that they don't know what created us, what happens after we die - and/or the determinants of this outcome?

Taking this thread as a general example, I can't find a single post where a religious person is criticizing a non-religious person for his beliefs or lack thereof.

 

[majahops]

Being gay is different. That's not something you read about being in a book and become. That's not something that your parents (in most cases) take you to a worship temple (church, temple, cathedral, mosque, whatever) weekly to indoctrinate you into. That's not something that makes it EASIER to relate to your family and community through. Homosexuality is (until proven otherwise, which it won't be) a biological phenomenon and isn't something you CHOOSE to do - or something that you really have a choice to UN-DO.

Plus, gay guys are freaking hilarious. They dress well, usually vote democrat and they help make San Francisco the best city in the world!

(Although I can't see how you could not love the na-na, but hey, more for me).

I seem to remember a few posts back where everyone thought that the idea of a Christian being ridiculed for his/her beliefs was ridiculous.

I wonder what the response would have been if I had talked in my PS about my experience being a gay man in middle America. If anybody had dared to say anything about my beliefs or lifestyle choice they would have been crucified in the public square.

This just proves that in so called "intellectual circles" bigotry is not dead. It is perfectly o.k. to be bigoted and intolerant to christian people.

Not that I mind so much. Dr Sno and I have already gone the rounds in an abortion debate, and rather than address the obvious holes in his logic, he started caterwauling because we were so unsofisticated compared to him, and that he wasn't going to bother trying to reason with us.

Oh, and he has a flippin Gilmore Girls picture on his profile...

 

[serikk85]

Of course, they just took christianity, which is insane enough, then added another crazy bit about digging up some magical tablets from an Indian burial ground guarded by the benevolent she-dragon Boloni.

I enjoy is how both sides seem to think the other is a lesser human for not agreeing with them. If you are religious you "subscribe to group think" and "cannot make rational decisions". I believe that most doctors in this country are religious, do they make decisions that are not rational?

On the flipside, lack of faith does not make someone an lesser human. You don't have to live by the ten commandments to live a moral life where you help further the progress of the human race.

What makes me sick is how people here project themselves as "tolerant" and "intellectual" here yet when Religion/Politics is brought up we are reduced to neanderthals.

 

[majahops]

Location: Salt Lake City

​

​

... Uh oh. I may have just set it off.

 

[serikk85]

... Uh oh. I may have just set it off.

Set what off?

 

[nogolfinsnow]

hey i just had an interview and i have a question that i have always wanted to know. during the interview, i began talking about my religious belief and said how it helped my become a humanistic and compassionate person. now that i have been thinking, maybe talking about religious belief is not something the interviewer was looking for. what are your thoughts?

An interviewer should recognize that people from all walks of life apply to medical school and make fine physicians. My class has devout Christians, Jews, Muslims, probably some Atheists, and a bunch of people who fall somewhere along the very broad spectrum of religiousness. I am sure some brought up religion in their interview because it is a motivating factor in their life. Unless you are extremely off-putting with how you display your religion (i.e. LizzyM's "have you been saved" question), it is describing part of who you are. If an interviewer really has a problem with your religion (or lack thereof), then they probably shouldn't be interviewing in the first place.

 

[majahops]

Set it off in this biznatch baby. I wanna make LOVE in this CLUB, HEYYYYYYYY.

(no, seriously, if you don't get it, no biggie. It was just haterism on my part, anyway).

Set what off?

 

[serikk85]

Set it off in this biznatch baby. I wanna make LOVE in this CLUB, HEYYYYYYYY.

(no, seriously, if you don't get it, no biggie. It was just haterism on my part, anyway).

Oh I noticed the haterism. Thanks.

 

[majahops]

You're very welcome, brother Joseph!

Now can we make love in this club?

Oh I noticed the haterism. Thanks.

 

[serikk85]

You're very welcome, brother Joseph!

:cry:

 

[virusgirl]

Does anyone have any comments to make that are related to the original post? I, for one, thought that this started out as an interesting thread.

 

[majahops]

You're such an anti-romantic! Why do you concentrate on the first line, as opposed to the second where I cordially invite you to make love in this club?

You confuse me, Joseph.

:cry:

 

[majahops]

... or an opinion that believers should be persuaded by rationalism to reject magical thinking....

​

 

[seelee]

An interviewer should recognize that people from all walks of life apply to medical school and make fine physicians. My class has devout Christians, Jews, Muslims, probably some Atheists, and a bunch of people who fall somewhere along the very broad spectrum of religiousness. I am sure some brought up religion in their interview because it is a motivating factor in their life. Unless you are extremely off-putting with how you display your religion (i.e. LizzyM's "have you been saved" question), it is describing part of who you are. If an interviewer really has a problem with your religion (or lack thereof), then they probably shouldn't be interviewing in the first place.

QFT

 

[Neuronix]

... Uh oh. I may have just set it off.

What's wrong with SLC?

 

[serikk85]

Ah... the bird. Maybe I'll go right now!

 

[Neuronix]

Uhhh their lifts stop at 4PM. You gonna hike it in the dark?

 

[serikk85]

Uhhh their lifts stop at 4PM. You gonna hike it in the dark?

Ha. Sorry. I didn't mean for those two statements to be connected. I just meant skiing in general right now. That being said, hiking is the only way to get real skiing.

 

[Neuronix]

That being said, hiking is the only way to get real skiing.

Spoken like a true local