Renaming of Physician Assistants to Physician Associates

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I am sorry but nobody except PAs care about changing the title. Everyone knew what PA stood for when they applied for PA school. PAs get paid very well considering the length of training, good work hours, and lack of final responsibility. PAs currently have it very good; whining about a name that has been in place for decades reflects poorly. In medicine you can get prestige, lifestyle, and money, but usually only 2 out of 3. PAs have lifestyle and money locked. You take a hit on prestige and some confusion about the word "assistant". Big deal.

The words "physician associate" vastly overstates the PA's qualifications. It is an unacceptable name and will never again be used as long as the PA profession is under the board of medicine.

I don't know why it takes so many words and all this back and forth when the issue is so clear. Someone in another thread mentioned "clinical associate". That seems like a good compromise. Overall though, I think it is a minor issue considering how good the PAs have it.

Finally, the whole issue about PA students vs. med students and intelligence or whatever is completely irrelevant. Arguing about that is pointless because PAs have not gone through medical school or residency, so hypotheticals are meaningless. The title assistant has nothing to do with whether PAs are smarter or dumber than doctors. It only has to do with the fact that PAs are there serving a different role than a doctor by virtue of different training. That is it. The rest is hypothetical mental masturbation.

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Can we get back on hatin' the nurses? Because this is getting old.
 
The words "physician associate" vastly overstates the PA's qualifications. It is an unacceptable name and will never again be used as long as the PA profession is under the board of medicine.

Says who, you? As I've probably already stated ad nauseum, one of my last Ob/Gyn preceptors (MD) finds the title completely appropriate, as probably do quite a few other time-honored physicians who have worked with PAs for years. Further, perhaps when PAs don't have to have their OWN medical licenses, maybe then they'll have less of a foot to stand on pertaining to what they're called.

Finally, the whole issue about PA students vs. med students and intelligence or whatever is completely irrelevant. Arguing about that is pointless because PAs have not gone through medical school or residency, so hypotheticals are meaningless.

You're right, just as med students have never gone through PA school. As a poster on the PA forum stated ...

I'm no expert but I wouldn't say that med school is "harder," just different. Med students generally take fewer credits per semester and extend their education over a longer period of time-- though there is the intense competition for residency positions that makes med school cut throat. I know at my school PA students cover the same exact anatomy topics in 1 semester instead of 2, while taking more credits during that semester.... doesn't sound easier to me.

... although med school still does cover more, and I agree with you 100% about residency.

Anyhow, I wish you all the best of luck out there. See you in the hospital.
 
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Says who, you? As I've probably already stated ad nauseum, one of my last Ob/Gyn preceptors (MD) finds the title completely appropriate,

You know, you keep bringing up this same physician or two in every post as if they represent the majority of MDs. During my surgery rotation I was scrubbed in with a surgeon and 3rd year resident. The surgeon needed another hand (or student to abuse) so he called up to the resident room to send down another student. In walks the <PA> student. The surgeon asks "are you 3rd year or 4th year?" The student tells him PA, the surgeon says "No, get out. I asked for a medical student." I also had an IM preceptor during 4th year who wouldn't allow PA students to rotate with him because "their knowledge is too superficial and I don't have time to waste."

I'm not saying I agree with either physician's behavior, but stop acting like the majority of doctors are supporting this change.
 
You know, you keep bringing up this same physician or two in every post as if they represent the majority of MDs. During my surgery rotation I was scrubbed in with a surgeon and 3rd year resident. The surgeon needed another hand (or student to abuse) so he called up to the resident room to send down another student. In walks the <PA> student. The surgeon asks "are you 3rd year or 4th year?" The student tells him PA, the surgeon says "No, get out. I asked for a medical student." I also had an IM preceptor during 4th year who wouldn't allow PA students to rotate with him because "their knowledge is too superficial and I don't have time to waste."

I'm not saying I agree with either physician's behavior, but stop acting like the majority of doctors are supporting this change.

I don't have any input on whether or not PA's should change the name, but I do think we ALL need to make patients known what our titles mean. Most patients do not know the difference between attending/resident/intern, PA/medical assistant, DO/MD. I worked with an ER attending who said the exact same things you are describing about med students and interns. He would not refer to med students by name, or allow them to approach him at all during a shift. This is not how we should be treating each other, no matter what the title is.
 
You know, you keep bringing up this same physician or two in every post as if they represent the majority of MDs. During my surgery rotation I was scrubbed in with a surgeon and 3rd year resident. The surgeon needed another hand (or student to abuse) so he called up to the resident room to send down another student. In walks the <PA> student. The surgeon asks "are you 3rd year or 4th year?" The student tells him PA, the surgeon says "No, get out. I asked for a medical student." I also had an IM preceptor during 4th year who wouldn't allow PA students to rotate with him because "their knowledge is too superficial and I don't have time to waste."

great anecdote-
EQUALLY WORTHLESS.
 
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"Physician associate" might "vastly overstate" the qualifications of a PA, but "physician assistant" vastly UNDERSTATES it, especially since it can be confused with medical assistants - a 1 or 2 year training program at community colleges around the nation. "Physician assistant" isn't an accurate description of their role in the healthcare setting.

And when I hear someone is an "associate" of something, I don't think the two terms/positions are equal. Associate does not automatically bring up some connotation of grandeur in my mind. I think this thread is basically a reflexive reaction to the fact that allied health fields keep encroaching onto traditional doctor territory, without examining the facts of THIS situation. A switch to Physician Associate does not mean people are going to think of PAs as doctors. It doesn't mean you're going to have to call your RN doctor. It doesn't mean ANYTHING in the minds of the average person.
 
I don't know much about PA curricula and know how much Biochemistry and Pathology do they learn. However if their curricula is lacking on the crude foundations of med school, I couldn't count them to be on the same level as an MD no matter how many years of clinical experience if they don't fully understand the why of choosing that treatment for that specific patient because they never took a good pathology and physiology course.

Most PA programs require both Physiology and Anatomy before application, and a majority also require Biochemistry. Most also require Microbiology (with lab). Pathology is more part of the didactic year, since the student has already taken Physiology. Likewise, at least in my program, we took Advanced Anatomy during our didactic year.

In addition to the brutal didactic year, we take exams after every rotation. Every rotation is also supervised by a preceptor, often an MD or DO (at my school I've learned under MDs and DOs except for only one rotation, where I was precepted primarily by PAs).

I'm currently on my Adult Med rotation, here are the learning objectives which I have to be prepared for before the exam:

.Cardiovascular.

.Category I:.. Coronary artery disease; AMI, angina, hyperlipidemia, valvular heart disease, dysrhythmias, congestive heart failure; hypertension (essential, secondary, malignant), orthostatic/postural hypotension, arterial/venous insufficiency, deep vein thrombosis, thrombophlebitis, peripheral vascular disease (venous and arterial).

.Category II:.. Pericardial diseases / cardiomyopathies (dilated, hypertrophic, restrictive) rheumatic heart disease, infectious endocarditis, mesenteric ischemia

.​
.Pulmonary.

.Category I:.. Acute bronchitis, pneumonias (community & nosocomial, bacterial, viral, fungal, .
.HIV-related), pleural effusion, pulmonary edema, asthma, chronic bronchitis/ emphysema, pulmonary embolus, tuberculosis, influenza..

.Category II:.. Abscesses, empyema, restrictive lung diseases related to environmental/occupational and connective tissue etiologies, carcinomas, sarcoidosis, pulmonary hypertension, cystic fibrosis, primary pulmonary hypertension, pulmonary fibrosis

.​
.Gastrointestinal.

.Category I:.. Peptic ulcer disease: H. pylori, gastric, duodenal; gastroesophageal reflux, esophageal spasm, esophagitis, gastritis/gastreoenteritis; hepatitis, pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, irritable bowel syndrome, diarrhea (infectious, parasitic), constipation, diverticular disease, pseudomembranous colitis, cholelithiasis, cholecystitis, lactose intolerance, constipation, Nutritional Deficiencies ( Niacin, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Vitamins A, C, D, K)., Metabolic Disorders (Lactose intolerance)

.​
.Category II:.. Esophageal/gastric/colorectal carcinoma; achalasia, esophageal varices, malabsorption syndromes, biliary obstruction, cirrhosis, parasitic diseases, large or small bowel obstruction.​

.Musculoskeletal.

.Category I:.. Rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, low back pain, gout, pseudogout, septic arthritis, osteoporosis, carpal tunnel syndrome

.​
.Category II:.. Systemic lupus erythematosus, progressive systemic sclerosis, psoriasis, vasculitis, Reiter's syndrome, aseptic necrosis, polymyositis, polymyalgia rheumatica, fibromyalgia, osteomyelitis

.​
.EENT.
.Category I:.. Glaucoma, otitis media/externa, labyrinthitis, Meniere's disease, acute/chronic sinusitis, allergic rhinitis, pharyngitis, conjunctivitis

.​
.Category II:.. Oral leukoplakia, orbital/periorbital cellulitis, retinal detachment, ocular herpes, oral carcinoma, cataracts, diabetic/hypertensive retinopathy

.​
.Endocrine

.
.Category I:.. Diabetes Mellitus (types I and II), hypo/hyperthyroidism, Graves' disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, thyroid storm, Cushing's syndrome, hypercholesterolemia, hypertriglyceridemia.

.​
.Category II:.. Hyper/hypoparathyroidism, acromegaly/gigantism, corticoadrenal insufficiency, pituitary adenoma, thyroid cancer, diabetes insipidus, SIADH.​

.Neurologic.

.Category I:.. Alzheimer's disease, CVA / TIA, tension/cluster/migraine headache, trigeminal neuralgia, giant cell arteritis, meningitis, diabetic peripheral and autonomic neuropathies

.​
.Category II:.. Multiple sclerosis, cerebral aneurysm, seizure disorders, encephalitis, Bell's palsy, subarachnoid hemorrhage, epidural bleed, Parkinson's disease, dementia, Guillian Barre, myasthenia gravis, SAH

.​
.Genitourinary

.
.Category I:.. Acute and chronic renal failure, nephrotic syndrome, renal calculi, pyelonephritis, benign prostatic hyperplasia, acute and chronic prostatitis, cystitis, urethritis, incontinence, epididymitis, cystitis

.​
.Category II:.. Glomerulonephritis, Goodpasture's syndrome, polycystic kidney disease, renovascular hypertension, tubulointerstitial disease, bladder/prostate carcinoma, renal cell carcinoma, testicular carcinoma

.​
.Dermatologic

.
.Category I:.. Stasis dermatitis, venous stasis ulcers, tinea corporis/pedis/cruris, rosacea, onycomycosis, herpes simplex, cellulitis, decubitus ulcers, urticaria, herpes zoster, psoriasis, seborrheic/actinic keratoses, contact dermatitis, viral exanthum, gram positive and gram negative skin infections

.​
.Category II:.. Basal cell carcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, melanoma.

.Hematologic.

.Category I:.. Anemias: iron deficiency, vitamin B12, folate, anemia of chronic disease, sickle cell anemia, anticoagulant use (warfarin, heparin, Lovonox, aspirin, clopidogrel)

.​
.Category II:.. Coagulation disorders, thrombocytopenia, VonWillebrand's disease, acute and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, acute and chronic myelogenous leukemia, lymphoma, multiple myeloma, ITP, aplastic anemia, myeloproliferative disease, G6PD-deficiency.​

.Infectious Disease.

.Category I:.. Candidiasis, gonococcal infections, salmonellosis, shigellosis, Lyme disease, HIV, streptococcal infections, staph infections, sepsis, Epstein Barr, cytomegalovirus.

.Category II:.. Pneumocystis, atypical mycobacterial disease, syphilis, histoplasmosis, cryptococcus, malaria.​

.Miscellaneous.

. Dehydration, edema.


.Procedures

.
.Given an adult patient, the PA student will observe and perform, where permitted, the following procedures: using proper technique and precautions; will identify the indications, contraindications and hazards for such procedures, and will appropriately educate the patient or legal guardian about such procedures and the meaning of the results. Including, obtaining the appropriate releases. The student will identify the age/gender appropriate "normal" values.

.​
.As indicated, with preceptor permission..: .

.arterial blood gases urinalysis.
.electrocardiogram
urine pregnancy tests.
.foley catheterization
venipuncture / fingerstick.
.gram stain wet mounts .
.IV catheter placement .
.nasogastric tube placement .
.occult blood in stool .
.rapid strep tests .
.injections:.. intradermal, intravenous, subcutaneous.
.specimen collection..: .
. culture/sensitivity of blood, .
. cervical, nasopharyngeal, .
. sputum, stool, urethral, .
. urine, wound .

.As indicated, under direct supervision and with assistance as needed..: .

.thoracentesis .
.paracentesis .
.joint aspiration .
.proctoscopy .
.arterial puncture, other than radial artery .
.Removal of non-penetrating ocular foreign bodies .

.Principles of Monitoring/Therapeutics .

.The student will identify the indications, contraindications, hazards and management of the following:.

.intravenous fluid therapy .
.total parenteral nutrition .
.blood transfusions .
.arterial cannulation and catheterization .
.central pressure monitoring .
.pulmonary artery pressure monitoring .

.Diagnostic Studies .

.The student will demonstrate knowledge of normal values, and list common diseases, which may account for abnormal values, for the following laboratory tests:.​

.complete blood count with white cell differential / anemia profiles .
.urinalysis .
.blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, electrolytes &#8211; Na+, K+, CL -, CO2 .
.biochemical profiles: liver function, renal function, cardiac function, .
.calcium metabolism tests, glucose, lipid levels .
.hepatitis profiles .
.arterial blood gases .
.thyroid profiles .
.lipid profiles.
.rheumatologic disease profiles.
.pulmonary function testing .
.HIV/AIDS profiles .
.cardiovascular testing (cardiac enzyme profiles, echocardiography,.
.stress testing, cardiac catheterization, BNP, C-reactive protein).
.spinal fluid analysis .
.microbiology: tests for infectious diseases .

.Radiographic Studies

.
.The student will describe the indications for ordering radiologic studies such as radiographs; CT scans, MRI, nuclear medicine studies and ultrasound techniques, as diagnostic procedures, and will describe the health risks associated with radiologic procedures. .​
.The student will: .​
.Interpret PA and lateral chest x-rays for pneumonia, pneumothorax, pleural.​
.effusion, CHF, cardiomegaly, solid tumors, fractures, hyperinflation..​
.Interpret x-rays of the extremities for fractures, dislocations and degenerative.​
. joint/disc disease..​
.Interpret x-rays of the spine for scoliosis, kyphosis, and DJD. .​
.Interpret the descriptive reports of radiologists concerning flat plates of the .​
.abdomen, upper GI series, barium enema, IVP's, skull and sinus films..​


That all being said, med school does teach more extensive physiology and pathophysiology but PAs are nonetheless taught a great deal. PA program accreditation involves representatives from quite a few Physician organizations, including the AMA, American Academy of Family Physicians, and the American College of Surgeons.
 
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Most PA programs require both Physiology and Anatomy before application, and a majority also require Biochemistry. Most also require Microbiology (with lab). Pathology is more part of the didactic year, since the student has already taken Physiology. Likewise, at least in my program, we took Advanced Anatomy during our didactic year.

In addition to the brutal didactic year, we take exams after every rotation. Every rotation is also supervised by a preceptor, often an MD or DO (at my school I've learned under MDs and DOs except for only one rotation, where I was precepted primarily by PAs).

I'm currently on my Adult Med rotation, here are the learning objectives which I have to be prepared for before the exam:

.Cardiovascular.

.Category I:.. Coronary artery disease; AMI, angina, hyperlipidemia, valvular heart disease, dysrhythmias, congestive heart failure; hypertension (essential, secondary, malignant), orthostatic/postural hypotension, arterial/venous insufficiency, deep vein thrombosis, thrombophlebitis, peripheral vascular disease (venous and arterial).

.Category II:.. Pericardial diseases / cardiomyopathies (dilated, hypertrophic, restrictive) rheumatic heart disease, infectious endocarditis, mesenteric ischemia

.​
.Pulmonary.

.Category I:.. Acute bronchitis, pneumonias (community & nosocomial, bacterial, viral, fungal, .
.HIV-related), pleural effusion, pulmonary edema, asthma, chronic bronchitis/ emphysema, pulmonary embolus, tuberculosis, influenza..

.Category II:.. Abscesses, empyema, restrictive lung diseases related to environmental/occupational and connective tissue etiologies, carcinomas, sarcoidosis, pulmonary hypertension, cystic fibrosis, primary pulmonary hypertension, pulmonary fibrosis

.​
.Gastrointestinal.

.Category I:.. Peptic ulcer disease: H. pylori, gastric, duodenal; gastroesophageal reflux, esophageal spasm, esophagitis, gastritis/gastreoenteritis; hepatitis, pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, irritable bowel syndrome, diarrhea (infectious, parasitic), constipation, diverticular disease, pseudomembranous colitis, cholelithiasis, cholecystitis, lactose intolerance, constipation, Nutritional Deficiencies ( Niacin, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Vitamins A, C, D, K)., Metabolic Disorders (Lactose intolerance)

.​
.Category II:.. Esophageal/gastric/colorectal carcinoma; achalasia, esophageal varices, malabsorption syndromes, biliary obstruction, cirrhosis, parasitic diseases, large or small bowel obstruction.​

.Musculoskeletal.

.Category I:.. Rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, low back pain, gout, pseudogout, septic arthritis, osteoporosis, carpal tunnel syndrome

.​
.Category II:.. Systemic lupus erythematosus, progressive systemic sclerosis, psoriasis, vasculitis, Reiter's syndrome, aseptic necrosis, polymyositis, polymyalgia rheumatica, fibromyalgia, osteomyelitis

.​
.EENT.
.Category I:.. Glaucoma, otitis media/externa, labyrinthitis, Meniere's disease, acute/chronic sinusitis, allergic rhinitis, pharyngitis, conjunctivitis

.​
.Category II:.. Oral leukoplakia, orbital/periorbital cellulitis, retinal detachment, ocular herpes, oral carcinoma, cataracts, diabetic/hypertensive retinopathy

.​
.Endocrine

.
.Category I:.. Diabetes Mellitus (types I and II), hypo/hyperthyroidism, Graves' disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, thyroid storm, Cushing's syndrome, hypercholesterolemia, hypertriglyceridemia.

.​
.Category II:.. Hyper/hypoparathyroidism, acromegaly/gigantism, corticoadrenal insufficiency, pituitary adenoma, thyroid cancer, diabetes insipidus, SIADH.​

.Neurologic.

.Category I:.. Alzheimer's disease, CVA / TIA, tension/cluster/migraine headache, trigeminal neuralgia, giant cell arteritis, meningitis, diabetic peripheral and autonomic neuropathies

.​
.Category II:.. Multiple sclerosis, cerebral aneurysm, seizure disorders, encephalitis, Bell's palsy, subarachnoid hemorrhage, epidural bleed, Parkinson's disease, dementia, Guillian Barre, myasthenia gravis, SAH

.​
.Genitourinary

.
.Category I:.. Acute and chronic renal failure, nephrotic syndrome, renal calculi, pyelonephritis, benign prostatic hyperplasia, acute and chronic prostatitis, cystitis, urethritis, incontinence, epididymitis, cystitis

.​
.Category II:.. Glomerulonephritis, Goodpasture's syndrome, polycystic kidney disease, renovascular hypertension, tubulointerstitial disease, bladder/prostate carcinoma, renal cell carcinoma, testicular carcinoma

.​
.Dermatologic

.
.Category I:.. Stasis dermatitis, venous stasis ulcers, tinea corporis/pedis/cruris, rosacea, onycomycosis, herpes simplex, cellulitis, decubitus ulcers, urticaria, herpes zoster, psoriasis, seborrheic/actinic keratoses, contact dermatitis, viral exanthum, gram positive and gram negative skin infections

.​
.Category II:.. Basal cell carcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, melanoma.

.Hematologic.

.Category I:.. Anemias: iron deficiency, vitamin B12, folate, anemia of chronic disease, sickle cell anemia, anticoagulant use (warfarin, heparin, Lovonox, aspirin, clopidogrel)

.​
.Category II:.. Coagulation disorders, thrombocytopenia, VonWillebrand's disease, acute and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, acute and chronic myelogenous leukemia, lymphoma, multiple myeloma, ITP, aplastic anemia, myeloproliferative disease, G6PD-deficiency.​

.Infectious Disease.

.Category I:.. Candidiasis, gonococcal infections, salmonellosis, shigellosis, Lyme disease, HIV, streptococcal infections, staph infections, sepsis, Epstein Barr, cytomegalovirus.

.Category II:.. Pneumocystis, atypical mycobacterial disease, syphilis, histoplasmosis, cryptococcus, malaria.​

.Miscellaneous.

. Dehydration, edema.


.Procedures

.
.Given an adult patient, the PA student will observe and perform, where permitted, the following procedures: using proper technique and precautions; will identify the indications, contraindications and hazards for such procedures, and will appropriately educate the patient or legal guardian about such procedures and the meaning of the results. Including, obtaining the appropriate releases. The student will identify the age/gender appropriate "normal" values.

.​
.As indicated, with preceptor permission..: .

.arterial blood gases urinalysis.
.electrocardiogram
urine pregnancy tests.
.foley catheterization
venipuncture / fingerstick.
.gram stain wet mounts .
.IV catheter placement .
.nasogastric tube placement .
.occult blood in stool .
.rapid strep tests .
.injections:.. intradermal, intravenous, subcutaneous.
.specimen collection..: .
. culture/sensitivity of blood, .
. cervical, nasopharyngeal, .
. sputum, stool, urethral, .
. urine, wound .

.As indicated, under direct supervision and with assistance as needed..: .

.thoracentesis .
.paracentesis .
.joint aspiration .
.proctoscopy .
.arterial puncture, other than radial artery .
.Removal of non-penetrating ocular foreign bodies .

.Principles of Monitoring/Therapeutics .

.The student will identify the indications, contraindications, hazards and management of the following:.

.intravenous fluid therapy .
.total parenteral nutrition .
.blood transfusions .
.arterial cannulation and catheterization .
.central pressure monitoring .
.pulmonary artery pressure monitoring .

.Diagnostic Studies .

.The student will demonstrate knowledge of normal values, and list common diseases, which may account for abnormal values, for the following laboratory tests:.​

.complete blood count with white cell differential / anemia profiles .
.urinalysis .
.blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, electrolytes &#8211; Na+, K+, CL -, CO2 .
.biochemical profiles: liver function, renal function, cardiac function, .
.calcium metabolism tests, glucose, lipid levels .
.hepatitis profiles .
.arterial blood gases .
.thyroid profiles .
.lipid profiles.
.rheumatologic disease profiles.
.pulmonary function testing .
.HIV/AIDS profiles .
.cardiovascular testing (cardiac enzyme profiles, echocardiography,.
.stress testing, cardiac catheterization, BNP, C-reactive protein).
.spinal fluid analysis .
.microbiology: tests for infectious diseases .

.Radiographic Studies

.
.The student will describe the indications for ordering radiologic studies such as radiographs; CT scans, MRI, nuclear medicine studies and ultrasound techniques, as diagnostic procedures, and will describe the health risks associated with radiologic procedures. .​
.The student will: .​
.Interpret PA and lateral chest x-rays for pneumonia, pneumothorax, pleural.​
.effusion, CHF, cardiomegaly, solid tumors, fractures, hyperinflation..​
.Interpret x-rays of the extremities for fractures, dislocations and degenerative.​
. joint/disc disease..​
.Interpret x-rays of the spine for scoliosis, kyphosis, and DJD. .​
.Interpret the descriptive reports of radiologists concerning flat plates of the .​
.abdomen, upper GI series, barium enema, IVP's, skull and sinus films..​


That all being said, med school does teach more extensive physiology and pathophysiology but PAs are nonetheless taught a great deal. PA program accreditation involves representatives from quite a few Physician organizations, including the AMA, American Academy of Family Physicians, and the American College of Surgeons.



"Learning objectives"? Give us a break, will you?

You're listing learning objectives as if they're some sort of rigid, well-defined entities that are guaranteed to be met by every PA student each and every year. We both know that's not the case. Learning objectives are hardly the same thing as the hard-core, in-your-face didactic training that medical students go through.

Remember, your training as a PA student is literally less than half the training of a medical student. The didactic portion of your education is half that of a medical student and it is far less rigorous than that of a medical student. And time-wise, your clinical training is less than half of a medical student's (and probably less rigorous as well).

To even imply that a PA's education even remotely comes close to parity with an MD's is just plain nuts.

Oh, and by the way, medical students take exams after rotations too, and the attendings on those rotations spend more of their time teaching the medical students than the PA students. And when you're talking about a surgery, we both know that it's a crapshoot whether or not the attending will even bother to teach anyone who isn't a resident.

.....Nice try, though.
 
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In legal world, Paralegals are demanding they be called Para-Lawyers. "Hi, I'm an associate of Big City Law Firm. I'm Paralawyer John Smith."

Yep but the ABA stopped that right in its tracks. Why? Because lawyers run the legislatures all over the country. They're also organized and not fighting wars on several different fronts against several different encroaching groups. Lastly, they aren't nearly as useless as the AMA/AOA and maintain higher/more loyal membership ranks.

Ultimately though the slithering snake lawyers will also put a halt to autonomous NP and PAs. Some smart little boy from NYU Law will make the first fortune running around the country suing NPs and PAs with the help of various physicians who will be more than happy to testify that the NP/PAs lack of educational background and training made them unqualified to treat so and so (whether its true or not).

Then the rest of them will follow and sooner or later it will become either prohibitively expensive for them to practice with total independence or eliminated at the state level.

Just my prediction Johnson, take it for what you will.
 
:D and that why we need lawyers to keep us (MD/DO, PA, NP, DC......etc ) honest!
 
You do realize that some np's have been practicing autonomously for many years? While I don't agree with it, its here to stay. All the moaning and belly aching on these forums won't help the problem!
 
While I would say a good name for the profession would be Medical Clinician (MC) being that PA's are trained in medicine and conduct a clinical practice that would change the initials and cause confusion. If the name is to keep the same initials PA I believe a good name change would be to Practitioner of Allopathy or Allopathic Practitioner (AP). This states that PA's practice allopathic medicine without butting in on the DOCTOR title. This would also distinguish a PA from a NP whom both come from different schools of medical training. Who's ready to lobby? :D
 
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again...i'm having a little difficulty in understanding the utility of a doctorate in physician assistant sciences. Unless it's for academic purposes, are they no longer PA-C after their name or is it PA-D? It still seems like a long hard fought road just to end up in a second tier position to physicians. So are they PAs with Doctorate degrees or does this entail additional rights, priveleges, and pretty much everything a doctor has minus the DO/MD at the end of their name?

I bet the majority of these messages are posted by MALE bc some men out there have an ego problem......:laugh:
 
I bet the majority of these messages are posted by MALE bc some men out there have an ego problem......:laugh:

if your gonna go trolling around bumping old threads in multiple forums at least think of something funny to say.
 
A physician associate is a physician at a private practice who hasn't made partner yet (hasn't bought into the practice). This is why many physician offices are called "___ Physician Associates"

It's the same difference between a law associate and a law partner at a law firm; they all have the same JD degree. Paralegals are NOT law associates.

PAs calling themselves "physician associate" in the same setting as other physicians is completely improper. If PAs feel that the name physician assistant understates their roles, they should come up with something else other than physician associate.
 
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