Repeated courses, and help deciding if I should change majors

[RLB31384]

So tonight I was reading on this board and heard about Pharmcas and how they calculate repeated courses, I always just assumed since my school lets your grade copy over that the college im applying for (UoK) would just go by that transcript. And I think I even read on their site that they didnt care about repeats but most people who have repeats need a higher gpa to get in, but they do use Pharmcas applications.

Now to get on to my problem, I repeated about 5 courses and some of them I repeated only because I wasnt sure if I was going to get an A, I was borderline B and A. But I didnt drop the classes I just stopped going and received I's or F's. I read that PharmCas doesnt count W's I could have withdrawn from the classes but I didnt think it made a difference. I have about a 3.5gpa and currently a 4.0 in Bio and Chem classes.

I'm wondering if i should just change majors, I really wanted to goto pharmacy school but its started to just stress me out, I had to take physics this semester and I commute and physics is a 4 day a week class, I had no problem going 2 days a week when I just stacked all my classes on top of each other all day long, but I commute about 10 hours a week right now just to school and back. All the driving and gpa is stressing me too much, and I would like opinions on what I should do. I really wish I hadnt tried to commute though, commuting through college as far as I live away is probably the worse choice I made through school.

I mainly want opinions on my repeated course problem, and maybe if anyone knows any good fields to go into Biology related that isnt so stressful. Biology is my favorite subject, I'm good at Chem too but I like Bio better. I emailed someone at UK and asked them about the repeated courses if they dont include them I might stick with this, I think ill be living closer to campus if I do though..

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[triumphbr]

I am relatively new here.. This is actually my first post (aside from the "new member" folder) hopefully this comes out the right way and not taken wrong.

I do not understand your thinking about these classes...

You are concerned about being a borderline A/B... so you stop going and let the chips fall wherever the instructor decides to let them? (I/W/F)

I strive to stay firmly in "A" territory and stress over it... but the idea of just leaving a class halfway through the semester because I have a 86 average seems a bit off.

Assuming you had not pulled them high B up to an A before the end of the semester/quarter.. well you would have still had a B instead of having no choice but to redo the class.

I think you need to rethink you approach because what you are doing is a perfect example of shooting yourself squarely in the foot.

A's are by their very definition "excellent" and B's are "good" F/W's are take the class again.

A "B" is much better for a cum. GPA than a F last time I checked.. doesn't matter if it's basket weaving or o-chem.

I think your entirely too hung up on A's. Yeah they are great to have... but a few B's in the mix are not going to break you. F's on the other hand... will throw a major wrench in the works.

 

[Farmercyst]

I am relatively new here.. This is actually my first post (aside from the "new member" folder) hopefully this comes out the right way and not taken wrong.

I do not understand your thinking about these classes...

You are concerned about being a borderline A/B... so you stop going and let the chips fall wherever the instructor decides to let them? (I/W/F)

I strive to stay firmly in "A" territory and stress over it... but the idea of just leaving a class halfway through the semester because I have a 86 average seems a bit off.

Assuming you had not pulled them high B up to an A before the end of the semester/quarter.. well you would have still had a B instead of having no choice but to redo the class.

I think you need to rethink you approach because what you are doing is a perfect example of shooting yourself squarely in the foot.

A's are by their very definition "excellent" and B's are "good" F/W's are take the class again.

A "B" is much better for a cum. GPA than a F last time I checked.. doesn't matter if it's basket weaving or o-chem.

I think your entirely too hung up on A's. Yeah they are great to have... but a few B's in the mix are not going to break you. F's on the other hand... will throw a major wrench in the works.

This is a pretty good run down of my thoughts as well. Though maybe a little more blunt. In terms of alternate career choices. Hard to say. There are several, but asking future pharmacists seems the wrong way to go. I'd say if your GPA is 3.5 there's no real reason to switch. I think I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[RLB31384]

okay im starting to rethink the choice of changing majors. I havent yet anyways I was going to use the summer to decide. As for what I did, the school I goto replaces your redo classes with your last attempt and uses that in your gpa and not the old grade. I guess I was misinformed and though pharmacy schools would do the same thing. So if I had a B in a class and felt I could not get an A, I would just stop going to the class inturn giving a sure B an F letter. I would retake the class and get an A. Well I would have probably a 3.8 when I finish prepharm if it was like this. But since I just found out, its not, I will have a 3.4 if im lucky.

I guess my new question is, what are my shots at getting into ANY pharmacy school with a 3.4 maybe I can explain why its a 3.4 and not a little higher, but it might just make me look stupid for thinking I could stop going to the class and just retake it. If I would have withdrawn from the class it wouldnt even count against me, but I didnt know that.

So anyways, if I do decent enough on the PCAT and keep a 3.3-3.4 how hard will it be to get in? I really dont want to push myself as hard as I can this summer if I have no real shot of getting in because of my mess ups. I looked at other job choices and I couldnt really find anything I want to do other then this. I believe I may get a pharm-tech job this summer as well, how much will that help me out?

Thanks, for the help.

 

[MCVpharmD4me]

I would suggest that you still pursue pharmacy if it was what you are really interested in, but you need to re-evaluate your outlook on class. You haven't started a good patttern for yourself because in pharmacy school you can't just fail out of a class because you don't like your grade and have no reprecusions. Hard work is better than simply giving up on a class and trying again with a different teacher/time/whatever. A couple of blemishes on a transcript can be overlooked and won't prevent you from getting into a school, I retook three classes and I was accepted into my top choice school, but too many will reflect poorly on your work ethic (even though it seems you strive to be a perfectionist). I think that if you stop repeating classes and do well on the PCAT you'll have a fair shot. Try to relax a bit because it sounds like you are over thinking things and stressing yourself out even more.

 

[RLB31384]

thanks mcv,

I think I will stick with it, I could have gotten B's in any of my failed classes, I just thought that I would need A's to get my gpa up high enough, but I really didn't I could have kept the B's and been in better shape then I am now. I emailed my advisor and he said most schools will look at the fact that I repeated them and did better. And they will look at if I work as a pharm tech and my pcat score. He even said that he was not aware that they look at both the first and second taking of the course. I believe that they will look at the second taking more then the first, as it shows what I currently know, and the retaking will help me on the PCAT im sure. And I have decided that I dont HAVE to goto UK, its the only school in Kentucky, but I can always move, even if my girlfriend doesnt like it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Farmercyst]

3.4 isn't EASY to get in with, but it's certainly easier than trying with a 2.8 or 3.0. And re the grades, starting poorly does mean no where to go but up. So upward trend will look good and you can chalk the error as ignorance of GPA calcs for PharmCAS (but more eloquently put on application). Certainly not worth giving up on pharmacy just yet.

 

[Zeke1955]

Like the others on here, I'm very confused with your logic in taking these courses. Anyhow, I'm just going to be honest here: Having any F's at all... let alone 3-5 F's (as I understand you have from how I interpret your posts) is going to severely cripple your chances of admission into any pharmacy school. Maybe I'm wrong, but not too many people get into pharmacy school with more than one or two F's, that I know of.

 

[RLB31384]

I have had 3 F's, they were really incompletes cuz I stopped going, and I had B's in all 3 of them when I stopped going. I really should have just withdrawn or kept the B's because as I understand it, PharmCAS doesnt count withdrawn courses. I did retake all the F classes, and got A's in them. The whole reason behind not going was because the school im going to now lets you copy over your grade if you retake it again. I stopped going and just focus'd on my other classes because I knew I could get an A in the class when I retook it. UK's website used to have on it that retaken classes wouldnt matter too much, maybe they werent using PharmCAS at the time. They redid their website recently and it has on there that they use PharmCAS. I did get Presidents list last semester, so that might help me. It was really just an idiotic mistake on my part for thinking that UK only counted the last grade. Are their any pharm schools that do only count the last grade? My advisor thinks I will be fine if I just do get on the PCAT and get a job at a pharmacy or volunteer. I believe I can finish school with all A's and if need to I can take some supportive classes afterwards to help boost overall GPA. The only class I might not be able to get an A in is Physics II, sadly its a 5 credit hour class.

 

[eelo]

I have had 3 F's, they were really incompletes cuz I stopped going.....

No. Regardless of how you try to re-define it, they're Fs.

You had your hands on Bs and you willingly took Fs. Who does that?

 

[RLB31384]

No. Regardless of how you try to re-define it, they're Fs.

You had your hands on Bs and you willingly took Fs. Who does that?

Obviously I did, I said they are bascially incompletes because the F's arent a showing of what I did while I attended the class. They will count as F's though. I know this, and I already explained why I did it. I figured I would need the A's to help me in Organic and Physics to keep my gpa competitive. I didnt know the F's count against me at the time. Either way, I'm already almost through school I might as well finish and try to get in to one of the easier schools to get into, and perhaps I can make it. If not I'll take a bunch of biology major classes and keep applying. I guess I worried too much about getting A's and inturn screwed myself for now.

 

[ButlerPharm.D.]

My 2 cents are that even though your school lets your "grade copy over", your original grade of F is still listed on your transcript as an attempt at the course. At Butler they allow student to retake classes that they received a grade of D or lower in and what they do is, for the sake of their GPA calculations, replace the F with the new grade however the old grade is still listed on the transcript.

 

[RLB31384]

yeah, thats what my undergrad school does, but when I got to go through PharmCAS my gpa is going to look a lot worse then what it is. I may have a time explaining on interviews why I decided to stop going to classes as well. I have a few reasons, but none of them are good enough, I just wanted A's basically and didnt think it would affect me. So I figured why not? It would help me retain the material, and I would get material that the first professor left out. I think it will be fine though, I may not get into my school of choice, but thats okay with me.

 

[sdn1977]

yeah, thats what my undergrad school does, but when I got to go through PharmCAS my gpa is going to look a lot worse then what it is. I may have a time explaining on interviews why I decided to stop going to classes as well. I have a few reasons, but none of them are good enough, I just wanted A's basically and didnt think it would affect me. So I figured why not? It would help me retain the material, and I would get material that the first professor left out. I think it will be fine though, I may not get into my school of choice, but thats okay with me.

I think perhaps what folks here are saying and you're not understanding completely, is you might not even get the chance to explain yourself in an interview. You have to get through the preliminary process, which will first be an examination of your grades - all of them, then scores, committment to the pursuit of the profession (volunteer, work experience, etc) and finally - an evaluation of what you might bring to the profession.

You've explained your motivations a number of times, but as someone previously pointed out, they were misguided and served only your own ends (obtaining A's) while not acknowledging the accepted procedures in place to drop a class - which every school has. However, there is no way your explanations will be sufficient to explain the F's - and they are F's. No amount of rationalization in your mind will make those any different when your application is being screened by a committee. Likewise, you have 2 other classes you've repeated - again, this present the adcom with a dilemma - will this individual be able to keep up with the courseload presented in pharmacy school? All this will go into them making a decision to invite you to an interview at all.

Additionally, you've received borderline horrible advice from your advisor. You already are commuting 10hrs/wk, don't want to take a 5 day a week class, and for whatever reasons - you have the need to demonstrate A ability when in actuality, it is only a B on first pass - which is all you'll get in pharmacy school (which - as many have said is not bad at all!) - and then, you want to add on a job - why? Is it to improve your image or to really find out what pharmacy is all about?

I'd say the time really is now to evaluate how badly you want pharmacy. Have you ever thought why you really want to be a pharmacist? You like biology, and altho pharmacy does have a bio component, it is much more chemistry based. There are careers which have biology as their primary focus...perhaps not as easily identifiable as a pharmacist is, but they are there.

No matter what you decide...you won't be fine unless you are able to write a great personal statement which will have to touch on your decision making process and how you've changed your approach and committment. Then, you'll have to find in yourself what you are actually going to bring to the profession - the grades only reflect that which your school's policy is, and you can see by those who have commented, is not the norm.

Good luck!

 

[RLB31384]

I think perhaps what folks here are saying and you're not understanding completely, is you might not even get the chance to explain yourself in an interview. You have to get through the preliminary process, which will first be an examination of your grades - all of them, then scores, committment to the pursuit of the profession (volunteer, work experience, etc) and finally - an evaluation of what you might bring to the profession.

I understand I might not get in for a interview, which is one reason I posted the topic. To see what people think my chances are and what I might be able to do to prove them. I have looked at the average gpas of some schools and some of them are a lot lower then what I was expecting. While I would rather just goto UK, its quite a bit harder to get into UK and I will take whatever I can get. That said they may just look at the F's and not look at my gpa at all, I dont really know how it works. But I know im willing to try, and if I don't get in I'll take some supporting classes to try to boost my overall gpa and try again. When I really want to try, I can get A's in any of the classes I take, without retaking them. I honestly havent had a major problem with any class, my main problems are burning myself out during spring semester, juggling a girlfriend who gets mad if I spend more time on anything else, and commuting more then I want to.

You've explained your motivations a number of times, but as someone previously pointed out, they were misguided and served only your own ends (obtaining A's) while not acknowledging the accepted procedures in place to drop a class - which every school has. However, there is no way your explanations will be sufficient to explain the F's - and they are F's. No amount of rationalization in your mind will make those any different when your application is being screened by a committee. Likewise, you have 2 other classes you've repeated - again, this present the adcom with a dilemma - will this individual be able to keep up with the courseload presented in pharmacy school? All this will go into them making a decision to invite you to an interview at all.

So what can I do, to make up for my F's? I guess it might help a little that 2 of them were a year ago, and the other was during my first semester at school. But im not really sure what to say if I get in for an interview and they ask about them. I guess I could tell the truth and if they don't like it, maybe some other school will give me a chance, or I could work and try again next year.

Additionally, you've received borderline horrible advice from your advisor. You already are commuting 10hrs/wk, don't want to take a 5 day a week class, and for whatever reasons - you have the need to demonstrate A ability when in actuality, it is only a B on first pass - which is all you'll get in pharmacy school (which - as many have said is not bad at all!) - and then, you want to add on a job - why? Is it to improve your image or to really find out what pharmacy is all about?

I don't plan to work while I attend school, just during the summer. I did work through most of school. I quit at the beginning of last semester and then I made all A's the following semester, but communting 4 days a week has really burnt me out this semester. I know I won't be able to handle the work at a pharm school unless I move on campus. That said I am going to move on campus or near campus, I decided to commute to help my mom and while im glad I helped her, I wish I hadnt.

I'd say the time really is now to evaluate how badly you want pharmacy. Have you ever thought why you really want to be a pharmacist? You like biology, and altho pharmacy does have a bio component, it is much more chemistry based. There are careers which have biology as their primary focus...perhaps not as easily identifiable as a pharmacist is, but they are there.

To be completely honest, if I had my choice of any job I wanted, I dont know what I would do. I decided to be a pharmacist because its suppose to be a very good job, its easy to get a job when you get out of school, and they don't have to work as many hours as doctors. Im interested in science, bio and chem. I'm good at both, but probably a little better at bio. I thought of changing to a more bio related job, but I dont know what I would change to and I dont have that many classes left in Pre-pharm.

No matter what you decide...you won't be fine unless you are able to write a great personal statement which will have to touch on your decision making process and how you've changed your approach and committment. Then, you'll have to find in yourself what you are actually going to bring to the profession - the grades only reflect that which your school's policy is, and you can see by those who have commented, is not the norm.

Good luck!

I don't feel I will be able to write a grat personal statement, not one I would feel good about. I feel bad for giving up on the class and just retaking it again. There are lots of things I could blame, commuting, working, my girlfriend (lol). I guess it all comes down to, if I would have known it would have effected me, I wouldnt have done it.

Thanks for the reply