research and no pubs

[urasia]

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does anyone have a friend or know anyone in a situation where s/he worked day and night in the research lab, produced some excellent data, wrote a seniors thesis based on the research, only getting an acknowledgement at the end of the paper (approx half of the paper was based on the senior thesis) when it got published? well, a student who used to work in my roomie's lab seems to be running into a similar situation, and that worries me a little.

 

[Scooby Doo]

The story of my life after 2 years of research...BS acknowledgements...oh well...sucks to be us!

 

[urasia]

hey scooby, do you know why the PI didn't at least put your name in the author section of the paper? i mean, 2 years is a long time.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Well six months in one lab..then left b/c the grad student left..she put me on an unimportant project just to see what would happen.

The next year was spent on the last quarter of a 4 year long project and my PI was really anal about having only the names on the paper who contributed to the WHOLE project or at least 3/4 of it. So no pub there.

Now we are starting another 4 year long project where I will be gone after the first year so no pub there.

I did do a technical paper for my senior thesis project but it has yet to be published and somehow I am getting third author on it even though I did a majority of the planning and stuff for it. Oh well...

 

[none]

I'm pretty sure the majority of undergrads who do research remain unpublished until they start grad work. If you have a PI who'll try to get an undergrad published...you're a very lucky person. If you're at a university who will allow freshman and sophomores to pursue research, you're even luckier!

 

[kutastha]

Many, if not most PIs will not give an undergrad enough responsibility in lab to warrant anything other than an acknowledgement. My first PI was actually one of the more generous ones and would put the undergrads name on a paper even if they just worked there for a few weeks and did something. On the other hand, in one of the labs I rotated in, I generated 8 out of the 10 figures and didn't even receive an acknowldegement. Authorship is not up to you, it is up to the first author and the PI. If they didn't feel your work was the backbone of the paper, you may get an acknowledgement or left off all together. Sometimes it's just a crapshoot.

Andrew

 

[TheAce]

PI's should be including you on the paper if you contributed to the data in a figure. The more you contribute, the higher in the author list you should go.

I was fortunate enough to be in a lab where the PI believed that all people (undergrads, grad students, research assistants, ...) should be include in a paper where they made an important contribution. In my nearly 4 years of research in that lab, I will have three publications - one as 5th of 6 authors (secondary project), one as first author (primary project), and one as 3rd of 5 authors (secondary project). The work I did on the third paper was critical to the paper, but didn't take that long. Additionally, there should be at least one more paper where I'm second author, but it's still in the works.

On a research project during med school, I will be first of two authors.

So, it is possible to publish during your undergrad and med school careers. Just be sure that you are at the bench conducting research, NOT washing dishes.

 

[urasia]

thanks Ace,

i collected a lot of usable data and did a great deal of analysis. i don't work in the lab anymore, so i'm hoping that my grad student supervisor would keep his word and include my name in the paper.

 

[paisley1]

I could care less if I publish a paper or not--does that make me weird? I enjoy working in my lab and I just got some kick-a** results the other day and the thrill of that alone is enough for me. I am wondering, seriously, am I missing something?

 

[kutastha]

Originally posted by paisley1:
•I could care less if I publish a paper or not--does that make me weird? I enjoy working in my lab and I just got some kick-a** results the other day and the thrill of that alone is enough for me. I am wondering, seriously, am I missing something?•••

Not at all. That's the best way to do it and refreshing to hear too 🙂

Andrew

 

[S. Ahmed]

Sorry to hear about your stories folks! Thats not fair. In my undergrad work, I knew many undergrads who were much smarter than many grad students.

I went to Univ. of MN - Duluth. Being primarily an undergrad school, I was lucky enough to find a very nice faculty member as my advisor. I did research for him for almost 2 years. I went to one national conference and another one in Argonne National Lab.
He was always extremely helpful.

S.A

 

[TechMan]

Could someone explain the difference b/w first author, second author, etc.

I am about to start a year long project, and this is what the outline of the work includes in it:

"A minimum of two publications are expected from the work and hence they can expect to co-author two or more papers as an outcome of the work."

what does co-author mean? does that i would be first author, second author, or what?

 

[kobe8]

Urasia,
You could have told us that your roommate's coworker was you. It's all good.
😉

 

[Sonya]

I THINK co-author is 2nd author.... hmm.. i always assumed it was.

I guess I've been lucky. I did the lab work and some analysis for one section of a paper. and wrote up the methods/analysis procedure. I got my name second author. I think, it was a small lab. I worked right under the PI, no grad student/post doc. (when I started, our lab didn't even have a grad student). But, I guess my PI was impressed by me, and the ideas i brought, so he gave me credit. It was work i'd done the last year and a half. I often felt i didn't commit enough time to lab and such, but I guess he like the work i did do.

 

[kutastha]

Originally posted by TechMan:
•Could someone explain the difference b/w first author, second author, etc.

I am about to start a year long project, and this is what the outline of the work includes in it:

"A minimum of two publications are expected from the work and hence they can expect to co-author two or more papers as an outcome of the work."

what does co-author mean? does that i would be first author, second author, or what?•••

First author is the person that writes the paper and does a majority of the work. Second author does the second-most work. As a general rule, authorship is given when, without that person's contribution, the paper would not be possible. Co-authorship usually
means when two people share the first authorship (listed as "*contributed equally"), yet in your reference it means you're an author.

Andrew

 

[TechMan]

kutastha - What you said is the impression I get from the paper outlining my research project. It seems like the grad student I will be working with, as well as myself, will be contributing equally to the papers, and thus we would both be first author. I could be wrong, but I meet with him tomorrow, and i guess i could ask him.

 

[TheAce]

Originally posted by TechMan:
•kutastha - What you said is the impression I get from the paper outlining my research project. It seems like the grad student I will be working with, as well as myself, will be contributing equally to the papers, and thus we would both be first author. I could be wrong, but I meet with him tomorrow, and i guess i could ask him.•••

Most likely the grad student will be listed as the first author. Even if it is listed as "x and y both contributed equally", the paper will always be known as "x et. al." When you list your papers on your CV, you aren't going to put a qualifier in there that says x and I both contributed equally to the work. Thus, there is truly only one first author.

 

[TheAce]

Originally posted by paisley1:
•I could care less if I publish a paper or not--does that make me weird? I enjoy working in my lab and I just got some kick-a** results the other day and the thrill of that alone is enough for me. I am wondering, seriously, am I missing something?•••

Yes, it was fun getting good results in the lab and learning the various techniques, but there is nothing like seeing your name in print and also knowing that the work you did will always be a part of scientific literature. So yes, you are missing something.

 

[urasia]

kobe8,
actually, my roomie's co-worker wasn't me, but i did work in a lab with a possible pending publication. and i'm really hoping that her situation won't occur to anyone.