Research before M1

[rxnfiend]

Let me preface my question by saying I am going on 1.5 months of vacation and not opening a single book for medical school all summer before I attend in August. I know spending my summer doing what I love to do before med school is important and I intend to do just so.

However, saying that, I have an opportunity to work with two doctors at a local university's hospital and write up two case reports with them. I figured this would be a great opportunity to start building up my CV again. I also want to shadow a few doctors to try to find a direction for a field I want to eventually be in. I am interested in surgery but do not know exactly what type yet. The case reports would in the fields of neurosurgery and EM which I find both interesting. Would the best idea be to go ahead and write up the reports but not publish them until med school starts so they could count towards residency apps? I know I am jumping the gun here a little bit, but I've always been a go getter. Thanks for the help!

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[chesswiz23]

Let me preface my question by saying I am going on 1.5 months of vacation and not opening a single book for medical school all summer before I attend in August. I know spending my summer doing what I love to do before med school is important and I intend to do just so.

However, saying that, I have an opportunity to work with two doctors at a local university's hospital and write up two case reports with them. I figured this would be a great opportunity to start building up my CV again. I also want to shadow a few doctors to try to find a direction for a field I want to eventually be in. I am interested in surgery but do not know exactly what type yet. The case reports would in the fields of neurosurgery and EM which I find both interesting. Would the best idea be to go ahead and write up the reports but not publish them until med school starts so they could count towards residency apps? I know I am jumping the gun here a little bit, but I've always been a go getter. Thanks for the help!

Sorry I don't have an answer for your question, but I was wondering why any research or publications prior to medical school wouldn't count towards a residency application?

 

[SpecterGT260]

I fully intend on listing pre-med research pubs and presentations as a part of my residency applications. A CV grows, it isnt replaced by new info. Hopefully there are plenty of new things on the app, but I don't see why I should deny involvement in a paper just because I didnt have a bachelors yet.

I also don't think listing things will ever really hurt you. It may not help if the director doesnt care what you did before med school, but I don't see how showing a 5 year+ interest in research is harmful... especially when med school publications can take nothing more than a 12 week elective.... you could hate research and never bring research dollars to the program but still have a pub from med school.

 

[rxnfiend]

I fully intend on listing pre-med research pubs and presentations as a part of my residency applications. A CV grows, it isnt replaced by new info. Hopefully there are plenty of new things on the app, but I don't see why I should deny involvement in a paper just because I didnt have a bachelors yet.

I also don't think listing things will ever really hurt you. It may not help if the director doesnt care what you did before med school, but I don't see how showing a 5 year+ interest in research is harmful... especially when med school publications can take nothing more than a 12 week elective.... you could hate research and never bring research dollars to the program but still have a pub from med school.

Good to know! I just heard that PDs don't care about what is done before med school so holding off publication until the first semester would be advantageous. Is this right?

 

[SpecterGT260]

eh... possibly... I guess I was looking at it from a "will this hurt me" sort of standpoint.

It may help more to publish afterwards.. but also they look pretty closely and even technically publishing afterwards may still not hide that it was undergrad work..

 

[rxnfiend]

eh... possibly... I guess I was looking at it from a "will this hurt me" sort of standpoint.

It may help more to publish afterwards.. but also they look pretty closely and even technically publishing afterwards may still not hide that it was undergrad work..

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[JackShephard MD]

Let me preface my question by saying I am going on 1.5 months of vacation and not opening a single book for medical school all summer before I attend in August. I know spending my summer doing what I love to do before med school is important and I intend to do just so.

However, saying that, I have an opportunity to work with two doctors at a local university's hospital and write up two case reports with them. I figured this would be a great opportunity to start building up my CV again. I also want to shadow a few doctors to try to find a direction for a field I want to eventually be in. I am interested in surgery but do not know exactly what type yet. The case reports would in the fields of neurosurgery and EM which I find both interesting. Would the best idea be to go ahead and write up the reports but not publish them until med school starts so they could count towards residency apps? I know I am jumping the gun here a little bit, but I've always been a go getter. Thanks for the help!

Gunner phrases: "Start building my CV..." "Wait to publish so they count towards...."

It's not a good sign that this is the way you're approaching things.

Do the research if you have interest in it but don't do things to build your CV or residency application. Superficial achievements don't lead to long-term success.

 

[FIREitUP]

Gunner phrases: "Start building my CV..." "Wait to publish so they count towards...."

It's not a good sign that this is the way you're approaching things.

Do the research if you have interest in it but don't do things to build your CV or residency application. Superficial achievements don't lead to long-term success.

I love these posts. The "don't do something you're not interested in" posts. If I followed this advice I wouldn't be in medical school, and if I start following it I probably will not match into the specialty I desire.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I love these posts. The "don't do something you're not interested in" posts. If I followed this advice I wouldn't be in medical school, and if I start following it I probably will not match into the specialty I desire.

We'll see if your philosophy makes you a satisfied physician with passion for your field or a disgruntled decorated high-achiever.

 

[FIREitUP]

We'll see if your philosophy makes you a satisfied physician with passion for your field or a disgruntled decorated high-achiever.

Ultimately, I'll be satisfied when I get into the specialty of my choice. It's not up to me what makes me competitive for that field, so I think it would be foolish to do "only what I enjoy" in order to get to my final destination, because if I employ that method I might not get to the place where I truly desire. I would much rather suffer through doing things I may not particularly enjoy than look back in regret after not matching into the specialty which I would have had a fruitful career in.

 

[SpecterGT260]

yeah I don't agree with jack either... I plan on doing quite a few things to bolster my resume.... that doesnt mean I will be doing it begrudgingly.....

none of us are here on passion alone. every one of us stacked the odds in our favor in undergrad, so to say it is a poor idea in medical school is just silly

 

[JackShephard MD]

To each his own.

I definitely am not saying to avoid challenges to get a person to their final destination. That's expected and obvious. Right now, we're talking about a summer before medical has even started... and we're talking about building a CV.

It's easy to polarize a person's statements on this site: "Oh, Jack thinks everything you ever do in every circumstance should be something you have interest in, without fail." No.

My stance is more subtle. When you have elective time, do things you're passionate about or interested in. If research is required, you can find projects you like sometime during school. N=1, but I was reading about an applicant who matched ortho at Hopkins last year who had little research experience and didn't pursue ortho until 3rd year.

I'm all for setting goals and working through the requirements, yet when you're talking about building a CV before medical school starts and already thinking about manipulating your efforts in your lab to make your resume look better... that's not good. Nor do I think it will lead to long-term success.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Jack, stop being such an over-the-top D-bag please

 

[drizzt3117]

This pubs before med school thing not counting is way overblown. I was asked in detail about pubs I did before med school on interviews.

 

[LazyElemental]

This pubs before med school thing not counting is way overblown. I was asked in detail about pubs I did before med school on interviews.

A pub by any other name would smell as sweet!

 

[SpecterGT260]

so that about wraps this thread up, eh?

 

[chesswiz23]

This pubs before med school thing not counting is way overblown. I was asked in detail about pubs I did before med school on interviews.

Thanks for the input! Relieved to hear that...

 

[rxnfiend]

To each his own.

I definitely am not saying to avoid challenges to get a person to their final destination. That's expected and obvious. Right now, we're talking about a summer before medical has even started... and we're talking about building a CV.

It's easy to polarize a person's statements on this site: "Oh, Jack thinks everything you ever do in every circumstance should be something you have interest in, without fail." No.

My stance is more subtle. When you have elective time, do things you're passionate about or interested in. If research is required, you can find projects you like sometime during school. N=1, but I was reading about an applicant who matched ortho at Hopkins last year who had little research experience and didn't pursue ortho until 3rd year.

I'm all for setting goals and working through the requirements, yet when you're talking about building a CV before medical school starts and already thinking about manipulating your efforts in your lab to make your resume look better... that's not good. Nor do I think it will lead to long-term success.

Why is that not good? Having goals in mind always leads to better results. Everyone in here played the game to get into medical school. We all jumped through tons of hoops, some we enjoyed, some we didn't mind, and some we did not want to do but knew we had to do it. This applies to every other field out there. Do you think people who are in banking or business enjoy every single thing they do? Absolutely not! They do many things to move towards their goals even if it is a little mundane. BTW, I do enjoy working with both of these people a lot so that is not even an issue.

Anyways, I'm not trying to "gun" here, just simply asking a question about something which I was already going to do and delay publication a month or two. No big deal...