Research Credit

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iPremed

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When you did research, did you do it for credit? if so, how much? would you recommend it?

Or do most of you do it as volunteer work or paid work?

PLEASE LOOK BELOW AT POST #11
 
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I do it as volunteer work because money is tight in my department and I thankfully don't need cash. I forgot to do it for credit this semester, but I don't really care either way I'm already taking plenty of credits.
 
for those of you who did do it for credit...what did you get "tested" on? like how was your grade determined?
 
for those of you who did do it for credit...what did you get "tested" on? like how was your grade determined?


We weren't tested in any way. It basically was, if you did the hours you were supposed to (3hrs/week/credit) then you got an A. But that's my school, I guess others could be different.
 
We submitted a comprehensive review of our research at the end of each semester (departmental requirement), but grades were given based on effort. My research mentor gave everyone A's (cha-ching with 2 credits).
 
College Credit = Free GPA Booster / Resume Booster
Paid = Free Money / Resume Booster

Win, win situation.
 
At my school we have a mini-semester called jan term just for the month of January where u only take one class. For the most part they are all blow offs with the exception of a few. I did a research class, that was pass fail, where we were introduced to the research process, but we also obtained some very limited novel knowledge resulting in a poster. In order to pass the class u couldnt miss a day and had to do lab flow sheets, basicly so we understood wtf we were doing. This summer ill be doing research again w\ the same prof, but this time we get paid..but not much.... I had alot fun this January so thats the main reason im doing it this summer too.
 
When you did research, did you do it for credit? if so, how much? would you recommend it?

Or do most of you do it as volunteer work or paid work?

I do research for credit (3hr), not paid. We have several different options at my school. You can do P/F 1 hr credit (basically a lab rat) doing whatever the lab needs. It can be useful if you need help deciding which area you want to do research. The other option is 3+ hr credit where you design your own syllabus and project with the help of a PI, graded A-F. I definitely recommend it if you have the right motivation; it's not for everyone. (Don't do research just to add it to your resume) It requires a lot more of a time commitment than the 3hr credit... I usually spend 10+ hours/wk in lab, but I enjoy it.
 
With my research I began taking it for credit, did that for two semesters, then worked on the project over the summer full time for pay, and the following year, this year, I have worked part-time during school for pay. With research, as with other things, it is probably good to show a progression, with concrete evidence of your increasing responsibility.
 
Hello!

Soooo I talked to my PI about doing an independent study with him this semester (this is my first semester with him). He said that since we only have until the end of April, he did not want to let me do it with him this semester. He didn't seem very interested - mainly b/c it would put a strain on him as well. I was really hoping to do it though since from what i've heard, it would be a great grade boost - something I really need.

Since I am new to research, I can't start with a project yet. I will be spending most of this semester just learning the various techniques associated with his research.

I was thinking of maybe proposing an independent study in which I purely learn about the techniques and name it like: Lab Techniques for Research or something silly like that...Could this be possible? Or am I just misunderstanding the concept of independent studies?

Would it be a bad idea to try asking him again for 2 credits instead of 3? Should I just put it off until next year? I don't want to get annoying to him but at the same time, if I don't do the extra credits now, I'll have to really overload next year (as in 5-6 courses/ semester)

My Courses for this semester: Orgo 2, upper level bio, asl, psych course, a physics for humanities (should be easy)
I will be volunteering at the lab for at least 6 hours a week anyway..so I was hoping to get credit for it as well...
 
1. NO NO NO, do not ask for 2 units instead of 3! That's totally missing the point and will come off as non-committal. "Hi Mr. Professor, thank you sooo much for hosting me, spending your lab money on me, and your precious time and energy on me. By the way, I don't think I can meet you all the way. Can you let me back off a little bit? I need two instead of three units, because, come to think of it, you're really not that important to me after all and I have better things to do." You are an undergrad. And you are NEW. He is a PI. You should be doing everything you can to impress him and learn as much as you can.

2. Yes, asking for a project that is "lab techniques for research" totally misses the point. First of all, research means studying a project or concept, such as "cell signaling in mice brains" or "glia cells and their influence on neurotransmitter release in nearby neurons." The point of doing research at all is to learn more about a concept that nobody knows about. It's about discovering new things. Therefore, a project is not studying a project. An independent research project means that you will be given a specific question the lab is trying to answer. For example, if my lab studies quails (let's be general, for the sake of illustration), your project might be to study quail wings and their aerodynamic properties. The relationship between undergrad-PI (or whoever your mentor is) is a mentorship position. That means the PI/mentor, who is smart and has a PhD and knows what he's doing, imparts his scientific abilities to you by guiding you through the process and supporting you in your research. You are an apprentice as much as an intern in their field of study, meaning "biology" or "ecology," and not "general techniques of laboratory science." those general techniques are acquired as part of the research study.

So, do NOT ask for a "research techniques" project. The reason why you're supposed to learn about how things work in the lab right now is because you need to know the waters before you can navigate them (i.e. understand the field better before you can study an unanswered question). The reason why your PI doesn't want you to start now is because every lab has its timeline and schedule, just as every project you do has its own timeline. Let's say you had class X and class X had 3 projects assigned to you, one due week 5 (project A), another week 7 (project B), another week 9 (project C). If your friend jumped in week 4 and said, "I want to work on project B with you! please? I'm so very interested!" you might tell your friend "wait until week 6, after I'm done with project A. Then I can accomodate you." I don't know exactly what your PI has going on, but this is an illustration. Until then, learn as much as you can, appear as attentive and hard working and thrilled by the research as you can (even if you're not yet, pretend you're thrilled so that when you really do fall in love with the stuff, you'll have more momentum going for you. We all start somewhere).

To answer the original question: I took 2 units of research credit for 3 quarters, and I'm starting a 4 unit independent research thing right now. I love research! It's so much fun. It's an intellectual challenge, you never know what coming next, and you get to wrap your brain around unknown concepts and questions and it's like a cool game. It keeps you on your toes. You're both afraid things won't work out at times, and also excited hoping things do... looking forward to learning more about the puzzle and putting all your hours of studying to good use. And, ultimately, maybe even glean some clinical insights into a disease. At the undergrad level, it's nice because you can learn in a "safe zone" - no thesis deadlines or graduation pressures to meet - just have fun learning the ropes and trying things out, and if you mess up, you're just an undergrad and no one is really counting.

Hope that helps. Best of luck.
 
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I was thinking of maybe proposing an independent study in which I purely learn about the techniques and name it like: Lab Techniques for Research or something silly like that...Could this be possible? Or am I just misunderstanding the concept of independent studies?

.....

I will be volunteering at the lab for at least 6 hours a week anyway..so I was hoping to get credit for it as well...

hmm, no you should not name it "Lab Tech for Research" for the following reasons:

1. Trust me, you will never NEVER learn all the techniques you need. You will learn as you do and as you go. You get a part and need to run a Western? You learn it on the spot, screw up, learn from that, and basically learn as you go.

2. The lab PI will not let you waste reagents on PCR, cells, and blots that do not produce results.

3. The lab PI will not let your inexperienced hands touch other people's experiments.

Solution: get a project from him and do it. Learn any techniques you need as you go. This is how I did it. Sometimes I found a postdoc to teach me, and other times I had to learn it myself, so it is doable.

My other concern is that maybe you should hold off on this until you have more time for a more serious commitment because 6 hours a week is not a lot of time. You probably won't get a paper out of it working only 6 hours a week in the lab. If that's not your goal and you want the experience + GPA boost, then go for it.
 
Fish89 and Cyclin M, thank you for your detailed responses!

A couple clarifications:

1. I am not changing from 3 credits to 2. The deadline for a 2 credit IS is 3/3. I haven't even signed up for the IS yet. I had originally asked him for a 3 credit IS but since I only have about 6-8 hours in the lab with him per week, I thought 3 units would be too much credit and 2 would match the amount of time I am putting into it.

2. I am not wasting materials. You see, I am not starting a project this semester since I won't be able to work in the lab during the summer and he thought it would be better if I started a project in the fall. This makes perfect sense. But, since I still needed lab exposure, I am learning techniques from him this semester. For example, I have been cutting mouse brains (brains that "are not important"). I also watched my PI inject a mouse. He said this is something he wants me to do myself eventually. He will be guiding me with various techniques throughout this semester. I will also be learning about the brain and its components down to the cell level. He wants me to learn most of the terms associated with it by the end of the semester. So I will be learning.

3. I think I will also be doing a lot of grunt work like transferring some of the brains they don't use into smaller containers and then labelling them.

4. I know I can't get a paper by the end of this semester. I only plan on getting a project next fall.

5. What if I changed the name of the course to something else?
 
It sounds like a good learning experience, and I think it's a great opportunity for you. I think you already know what you need to do (as far as the unit count and course title go) but I still think that you shouldn't call the course "general lab technique." If you're studying mouse brains, you can at least call the course something like "preparation for mouse brain study" (phrase it more eloquently/ scientifically somehow, using details from your lab's field of study). Everyone starts out small, even if it's just injecting brains, but the more you do now, the more you'll have going for you later. 👍
 
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