Research experience as a non-trad?

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Mr Roboto

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Hey all,

How did you get research experience as a non-traditional student? When I was taking my pre-reqs, I didn't have the time to do research while also working to pay my living expenses, studying for class and MCAT. Now that I'm done with classes, MCAT, and have work experience in a clinical setting I was hoping to get involved with research because it seems like everyone has that.

Just e-mail old professors?

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They offered it to me before I graduated, I then continued with that person for a few years. I then did 3 years in graduate school, then started my own company where I was an information broker, then got a research job.

If those are not options, there are frequent unpaid research internships at locations. Like 6 months of being a researcher at a zoo. It was my first research gig, that was like 5 hours a week.
 
Sure, email old professors. They may not have slots for you (these typically being reserved for current students) but they will likely know of other slots you can apply for.
 
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Also try your state medical school if you have one. They usually have paid and volunteer research positions. Keep in mind that they may have a lot of premeds sending in resumes.

Email old professors. Look up professors at your local university and cold call or email.
 
Get involved with it if you can. Otherwise research is not an absolute must.
 
Look up faculty pages of professors at local universities. Find what people are working on. Find those that you're interested in, read about the work, email the faculty expressing your interest and demonstrating that you've done your homework. If you're not interested in any of them (or all of them), fake enthusiasm. If you know any physicians, ask them if they are working on anything or if they know others who are working on things. Ask anyone and everyone. Go to the local CC or 4-year and walk into the biology, chemistry, psychology department and chat up the secretary about student research opportunities, professors who generally have a lot of students do research, etc. Google chemical companies, biotech firms, etc. in you area, call them up, look at their websites. Last summer I was about to do an internship with a PAINT company doing lab "research," before I got my current gig in a government lab.
 
Also, clinical research might not be a bad thing to look into. Both emergency depts in neighboring cities with residency programs have these research associate programs. You volunteer in the ED to screen patients for clinical research studies, enroll qualified pts, do informed consent, data collection, and while doing that you get a ton of shadowing in the process as well, see procedures, etc. They get free labor and pour out publications. I did it and thought it was awesome. I know these programs exist in other places as well.

Otherwise, yeah, just going to have to do searches on the web, hit up old professors, etc.
 
Hey all,

How did you get research experience as a non-traditional student? When I was taking my pre-reqs, I didn't have the time to do research while also working to pay my living expenses, studying for class and MCAT. Now that I'm done with classes, MCAT, and have work experience in a clinical setting I was hoping to get involved with research because it seems like everyone has that.

Just e-mail old professors?

I don't understand why everyone thinks research is vital to getting accepted. As a non-trad you have valuable work experience in a professional setting that no undergrad can come close to. I didn't think about research, nor did I try to pursue it. How could I? The hours I could research I had to be at work. Most schools understand this. If you are trying to get into Duke or some other research focused school then my advice is moot, otherwise I don't think it is necessary to get all frenzied about research. In fact I would say it is more important to have shadowing experience than research, and that comes straight from the mouth of several ADCOMS to me.

I think focusing on research will be more important during med school. Residency programs do look for that type of experience and it definitely can pay off down the road.
 
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I didn't think it was super important until looking at MSAR and seeing that 80-90% of all matriculating students at most schools had research experience. Then I began doubting the strength of my application, freaking out, doing the typical neurotic-SDN user thing.

I don't understand why everyone thinks research is vital to getting accepted. As a non-trad you have valuable work experience in a professional setting that no undergrad can come close to. I didn't think about research, nor did I try to pursue it. How could I? The hours I could research I had to be at work. Most schools understand this. If you are trying to get into Duke or some other research focused school then my advice is moot, otherwise I don't think it is necessary to get all frenzied about research. In fact I would say it is more important to have shadowing experience than research, and that comes straight from the mouth of several ADCOMS to me.

I think focusing on research will be more important during med school. Residency programs do look for that type of experience and it definitely can pay off down the road.
 
I didn't think it was super important until looking at MSAR and seeing that 80-90% of all matriculating students at most schools had research experience. Then I began doubting the strength of my application, freaking out, doing the typical neurotic-SDN user thing.
If you have a chance, try to get at least some. I did apply last year without any research experience and that did not end well. It is hard to say whether that was the strongest contributor to my lack of interviews but it certainly did not help.
 
I agree that there are other more important things to cover for the application, but if you have the other stuff covered and have the opportunity or interest, it certainly doesn't hurt to do it.
 
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I don't understand why everyone thinks research is vital to getting accepted. As a non-trad you have valuable work experience in a professional setting that no undergrad can come close to. I didn't think about research, nor did I try to pursue it. How could I? The hours I could research I had to be at work. Most schools understand this. If you are trying to get into Duke or some other research focused school then my advice is moot, otherwise I don't think it is necessary to get all frenzied about research. In fact I would say it is more important to have shadowing experience than research, and that comes straight from the mouth of several ADCOMS to me.

I think focusing on research will be more important during med school. Residency programs do look for that type of experience and it definitely can pay off down the road.

Unfortunately with 18 or 19 people applying for every spot at my state school, mission-focused on clinical care NOT research, it is unfortunate to report that research is all but a necessity. I saw a presentation last year by an AdCom on the importance of research for understanding the value of new studies and the treatments coming from them. When to take studies about some drugs seriously, the methodologies behind them. There are some things lay people can understand like sample size or double-blind study, but unless you've been there in the research world you may not understand the validity and reasoning behind the latest medical journal findings. And of course as a physician, we will need to be up to date on the latest research. This is not my opinion but the opinion of an Adcom at my clinically-focused state school where they have 18-19 people applying for every spot they have. If you don't have research and aren't exemplary in some other way, they will likely move on.
 
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Did he say anything (or do any of you all know) whether bench research vs. helping with statistical analysis matters? Like do I have to go work/volunteer in a lab, or is it ok to go volunteer marking charts/patients for participation in studies...?

Unfortunately with 18 or 19 people applying for every spot at my state school, mission-focused on clinical care NOT research, it is unfortunate to report that research is all but a necessity. I saw a presentation last year by an AdCom on the importance of research for understanding the value of new studies and the treatments coming from them. When to take studies about some drugs seriously, the methodologies behind them. There are some things lay people can understand like sample size or double-blind study, but unless you've been there in the research world you may not understand the validity and reasoning behind the latest medical journal findings. And of course as a physician, we will need to be up to date on the latest research. This is not my opinion but the opinion of an Adcom at my clinically-focused state school where they have 18-19 people applying for every spot they have. If you don't have research and aren't exemplary in some other way, they will likely move on.
 
This probably won't be helpful, but my method was to do graduate school.
 
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In your clinical setting inquire as to wther anyone is known to be doing research. Network!

Hey all,

How did you get research experience as a non-traditional student? When I was taking my pre-reqs, I didn't have the time to do research while also working to pay my living expenses, studying for class and MCAT. Now that I'm done with classes, MCAT, and have work experience in a clinical setting I was hoping to get involved with research because it seems like everyone has that.

Just e-mail old professors?
 
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Reactions: 1 user
Did he say anything (or do any of you all know) whether bench research vs. helping with statistical analysis matters? Like do I have to go work/volunteer in a lab, or is it ok to go volunteer marking charts/patients for participation in studies...?

I think statistical analysis is fine because you're part of the research experience, however, doing the bench work is where the foundation of the research begins. It's weird - if you do just the bench work, you're an undergrad grunt and not involved in the study design or analysis, but if you just help with the analysis part you are also just a grunt to some extent. The best thing if you are in that situation is request to help write the paper if you do statistical analysis on it, this way your contribution will not be minimized. To answer your question though, any research experience is good experience. Is working bench valuable - yes, since you become intimately familiar with precise measurement, using fine instrumentation, seeing variability in action and trying to understand/account for it, and straight up 'getting your hands dirty.' Is it worse than just doing the analysis part later in the research? Hard to say, everyone has a different opinion on this I would imagine. If you can, try and do both!
 
Unfortunately with 18 or 19 people applying for every spot at my state school, mission-focused on clinical care NOT research, it is unfortunate to report that research is all but a necessity. I saw a presentation last year by an AdCom on the importance of research for understanding the value of new studies and the treatments coming from them. When to take studies about some drugs seriously, the methodologies behind them. There are some things lay people can understand like sample size or double-blind study, but unless you've been there in the research world you may not understand the validity and reasoning behind the latest medical journal findings. And of course as a physician, we will need to be up to date on the latest research. This is not my opinion but the opinion of an Adcom at my clinically-focused state school where they have 18-19 people applying for every spot they have. If you don't have research and aren't exemplary in some other way, they will likely move on.

Amazing. I have 2 ADCOMS from 2 different institutions tell me to focus on shadowing/clinical experience. You have 1 that says research.

I suppose that any responsible student at this point should call the institutions they are interested in and inquire for themselves.
 
I suppose that any responsible student at this point should call the institutions they are interested in and inquire for themselves.

Yeah, definitely.

The thing to note about HinduHammer's post is that it doesn't say anywhere that shadowing/clinical experience isn't highly valued as well. When schools get so many applicants they can choose people who've covered ALL of those bases well, so it isn't really "research is better than clinical" it's "we can be choosy, so we want research and clinical exposure and everything else."

Hence my suggestion that if you have shadowing, clinical, and volunteer experience covered and you have the time, opportunity, or interest it won't hurt to do a bit of some kind of research. But I'd prioritize the other things ahead of research.
 
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Did he say anything (or do any of you all know) whether bench research vs. helping with statistical analysis matters? Like do I have to go work/volunteer in a lab, or is it ok to go volunteer marking charts/patients for participation in studies...?

For what it's worth, my research experience (full time work) was entirely office based. I interviewed at many top schools and will be attending a top research institution. My academics were strong but it was my research experience that ultimately made me a top tier candidate and I although there are biases towards bench research you might encounter, it's not worth forcing the issue to try and cover all bases. Look for research opportunities that genuinely interest and engage you because being bored of your research and unable to discuss it confidently could be a kiss of death in interviews.

I also agree with others who have said that, as a nontrad, you do not HAVE to have research if other aspects of your application are strong. The fact that we are nontrads definitionally means we cannot have the stereotypically 'perfect' application. We have other strengths.
 
Unfortunately with 18 or 19 people applying for every spot at my state school, mission-focused on clinical care NOT research, it is unfortunate to report that research is all but a necessity.
Research is one of those things that is a boon to an application, but it's not an absolute requirement *unless* you are applying to a research-oriented program like an MD/PhD or MD/MS program. With those exceptions, even the more research-oriented schools still have a significant minority of matriculants who have not participated in research. That being said, it's always good to know your audience. Most adcom members are MD/DO clinicians, MD/DO researchers, or PhD researchers. So there may indeed be a strong bias toward candidates with research experience simply because of the makeup of the adcom. Keep in mind too that there is a bias toward applicants who have participated in research because the best candidates for med school tend to come from institutions where research experience is available to undergrads, and many of these students do choose to participate when the opportunity is offered to them. Successful candidates are successful because they are hard workers in general, including making the effort to get involved in ECs like research that they perceive as being valued by adcoms. So research as an EC is also a marker of motivation/work ethic.

I saw a presentation last year by an AdCom on the importance of research for understanding the value of new studies and the treatments coming from them. When to take studies about some drugs seriously, the methodologies behind them. There are some things lay people can understand like sample size or double-blind study, but unless you've been there in the research world you may not understand the validity and reasoning behind the latest medical journal findings.
As someone with extensive graduate training in research (both clinical and basic), I'm going to respectfully disagree with your adcom friend here. Participating in research at the UG level does not teach these skills to participants. It would be great if it did, but I sat through plenty of journal clubs at my highly respected academic residency where, outside of a few of us who were interested in EBM, no one else had any experience (or even much interest) in critically evaluating the primary studies. That's why there is so much secondary literature where someone else who knows what they're doing has already performed this evaluation work. (Think of commonly used clinical resources such as the Cochrane Collaboration reviews, UpToDate, specialty expert guidelines, etc.) What UG research participation does do, however, is two other important things: 1) give participants an understanding for how knowledge in the sciences is actually obtained (slowly, painfully, after many wrong turns), and 2) in some cases, lead someone who hadn't considered an academic career to become an academic. I got interested in research after participating in UG research experience; I certainly did not start college intending to go to graduate school. This is probably fairly common.

How did you get research experience as a non-traditional student? When I was taking my pre-reqs, I didn't have the time to do research while also working to pay my living expenses, studying for class and MCAT. Now that I'm done with classes, MCAT, and have work experience in a clinical setting I was hoping to get involved with research because it seems like everyone has that.

Just e-mail old professors?
Yes. Other networking ideas include the career center or premed club at your university or local med school. If you're willing to make enough of a time commitment where it's worth the effort of training you, someone will likely be willing to take you on, especially if you're looking to volunteer in a lab. But again, unless you are applying for combined degree programs with a mission to train physician scientists, you don't absolutely have to have research experience. It's not true that everyone does.
 
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Amazing. I have 2 ADCOMS from 2 different institutions tell me to focus on shadowing/clinical experience. You have 1 that says research.

I suppose that any responsible student at this point should call the institutions they are interested in and inquire for themselves.

Let me be clear - this AdCom who gave a presentation on the importance of research did so to dispel the rumor that research was not important at my state school which is very clinically focused. The other presentations were all about experiences serving others, and the necessity of having at least one such experience be clinical. I apologize for not making that clearer. The point still remains, though, that research is looked upon very favorably, for reasons Q and others have mentioned. So, as wholeheartedly said, the point here is that med school is a seller's market. I agree that you should look up the schools specifically to see what is valuable to them.

Yeah, definitely.

The thing to note about HinduHammer's post is that it doesn't say anywhere that shadowing/clinical experience isn't highly valued as well. When schools get so many applicants they can choose people who've covered ALL of those bases well, so it isn't really "research is better than clinical" it's "we can be choosy, so we want research and clinical exposure and everything else."

Hence my suggestion that if you have shadowing, clinical, and volunteer experience covered and you have the time, opportunity, or interest it won't hurt to do a bit of some kind of research. But I'd prioritize the other things ahead of research.

Yes wholeheartedly you hit the nail on the head exactly. Medical schools can be choosy. One thing that this AdCom said to me was to do research in something that I enjoyed. I was actually starting a research project with a psychology instructor that I had on the effects of levity in the workplace, because I really find psychology fascinating. I ended up doing pharmaceutical research because it was a more prestigious, paid gig, but you hit the nail on the head. If one wants to be a clinician, I would venture that research is valuable as a great secondary activity but necessarily primary. Of course, with the competitiveness of med school admissions, maybe its all of the above!

Research is one of those things that is a boon to an application, but it's not an absolute requirement *unless* you are applying to a research-oriented program like an MD/PhD or MD/MS program. With those exceptions, even the more research-oriented schools still have a significant minority of matriculants who have not participated in research. That being said, it's always good to know your audience. Most adcom members are MD/DO clinicians, MD/DO researchers, or PhD researchers. So there may indeed be a strong bias toward candidates with research experience simply because of the makeup of the adcom. Keep in mind too that there is a bias toward applicants who have participated in research because the best candidates for med school tend to come from institutions where research experience is available to undergrads, and many of these students do choose to participate when the opportunity is offered to them. Successful candidates are successful because they are hard workers in general, including making the effort to get involved in ECs like research that they perceive as being valued by adcoms. So research as an EC is also a marker of motivation/work ethic.


As someone with extensive graduate training in research (both clinical and basic), I'm going to respectfully disagree with your adcom friend here. Participating in research at the UG level does not teach these skills to participants. It would be great if it did, but I sat through plenty of journal clubs at my highly respected academic residency where, outside of a few of us who were interested in EBM, no one else had any experience (or even much interest) in critically evaluating the primary studies. That's why there is so much secondary literature where someone else who knows what they're doing has already performed this evaluation work. (Think of commonly used clinical resources such as the Cochrane Collaboration reviews, UpToDate, specialty expert guidelines, etc.) What UG research participation does do, however, is two other important things: 1) give participants an understanding for how knowledge in the sciences is actually obtained (slowly, painfully, after many wrong turns), and 2) in some cases, lead someone who hadn't considered an academic career to become an academic. I got interested in research after participating in UG research experience; I certainly did not start college intending to go to graduate school. This is probably fairly common.


Yes. Other networking ideas include the career center or premed club at your university or local med school. If you're willing to make enough of a time commitment where it's worth the effort of training you, someone will likely be willing to take you on, especially if you're looking to volunteer in a lab. But again, unless you are applying for combined degree programs with a mission to train physician scientists, you don't absolutely have to have research experience. It's not true that everyone does.

Q - I think your point on the makeup of the AdCom is very valid. This particular AdCom member was a pediatrician, and I don't know if he personally was research heavy. I saw a presentation from him a few weeks ago (about a year after the first presentation) where the talked about the importance of LORs. So maybe he was making a presentation from the viewpoint of the entire AdCom at that time or maybe just him, *shrug*.

This AdCom presenter said those things in perhaps an idealized context - that ideally, we would gain those skills. I really have no idea. That being said, I have actually gleaned some pretty good understanding of the research world and research validity. Part of my work as it evolved has been to start writing drafts of papers, so I have to do a review of all work already published on the subject. This forces me to look critically at the stuff that has meat and what is just fluff, thereby gaining understanding that I hopefully can apply to looking at medical studies in the future. Of course, I am really lucky to have an amazing mentor that wants me to learn and think critically and not just be a sample-prep monkey (And of course I was indeed a sample prep and machine running monkey for the first 6 months at this job :laugh:)

I also wholeheartedly agree about research being great for exposing premeds to careers in research. While I still want to be a clinician, I would love the opportunity to pursue research in medical school.
 
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