Research for Non-Traditional Applicants

[NY509]

Hello Everyone -

Do a lot of you non-traditional applicants have research experience? I am taking my last prerequisite before the MCAT (graduated college 4 years ago with a Bacheor of Arts), volunteering at a hospital, and working full time 50 hours a week. Do schools look down upon you if you don't have any publications or lab work when applying (given that they know you're out in the workforce and not simply an undergrad)? I'd love to do it but don't have the time as I'm focusing on studying for the MCAT and volunteering in my spare time.

I'm just curious to see what other individuals have done if they haven't had the opportunity to get in a lab and complete publishable work.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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[QofQuimica]

Hello Everyone -

Do a lot of you non-traditional applicants have research experience? I am taking my last prerequisite before the MCAT (graduated college 4 years ago with a Bacheor of Arts), volunteering at a hospital, and working full time 50 hours a week. Do schools look down upon you if you don't have any publications or lab work when applying (given that they know you're out in the workforce and not simply an undergrad)? I'd love to do it but don't have the time as I'm focusing on studying for the MCAT and volunteering in my spare time.

I'm just curious to see what other individuals have done if they haven't had the opportunity to get in a lab and complete publishable work.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Well, seeing as I got an MS and a PhD before med school, yes, I had done quite a bit of research. But, unless you're applying for a research-intensive program (MD/PhD or MD/MS), you aren't expected to have done research. It's not going to hurt you if you want to try your hand at it, but it's not required. Clinical exposure of some type, on the other hand, is completely required, so good move on the hospital volunteering. Best of luck with the MCAT.

 

[Helen Wheels]

Well, I lucked out in that I ended up working in psych research before I even made the decision to do my post bac pre reqs. It's clinical research but I do the clinical interviews so it was a lot of patient interaction as well as being research experience. I am not an author on any papers, kind of regret that now, not really sure if the PIs would have permitted that. All told, I have over a decade of research experience and fifteen years of mental health experience.

The only DO school I applied to accepted me this year but last year every MD program turned me down without an interview. I had a sub 30 MCAT, a somewhat late application (due to waiting for August MCAT retake scores) which really hurt my MD apps. Also, I wonder if maybe the MD programs want to see bench research and not clinical? I also wondered if the MD programs felt all my psych experience, inlcuding fifteen years of outpt, inpt, psych ED, etc., just weren't good enough patient experiences. Though I was a caregiver for a sick family member for 7 years so I feel it was somewhat balanced out in the end.

So, anyway, if you can get a paid full time research job while you are working toward med school it makes it easier to get research experience.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello Everyone -

Do a lot of you non-traditional applicants have research experience? I am taking my last prerequisite before the MCAT (graduated college 4 years ago with a Bacheor of Arts), volunteering at a hospital, and working full time 50 hours a week. Do schools look down upon you if you don't have any publications or lab work when applying (given that they know you're out in the workforce and not simply an undergrad)? I'd love to do it but don't have the time as I'm focusing on studying for the MCAT and volunteering in my spare time.

I'm just curious to see what other individuals have done if they haven't had the opportunity to get in a lab and complete publishable work.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Research experience is only marginally interesting to medical school admissions committees - it can help only to separate you at research-intensive medical schools from many applicants who have similar stats. You won't be doing any meaningful research as a medical student or resident, I promise you. Much more important to spend time around physicians.

 

[katiemaude]

I absolutely respect the opinions presented here but it seems to be the opposite of what I've seen in the pre-allo forums for trad students. Is research somehow more important for them, or are they all gunning for Harvard? I haven't been able to find a research opportunity either and it concerns me. I do volunteer in a hospital ED (150+ hours and counting) and I'm planning to start shadowing soon.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I absolutely respect the opinions presented here but it seems to be the opposite of what I've seen in the pre-allo forums for trad students. Is research somehow more important for them, or are they all gunning for Harvard? I haven't been able to find a research opportunity either and it concerns me. I do volunteer in a hospital ED (150+ hours and counting) and I'm planning to start shadowing soon.

Everyone is looking for an edge. Maybe that's what makes us all a bunch of paranoid neurotics. It's possible we would be happier if we just did what we like doing - learning things and helping people.

 

[siliso]

I absolutely respect the opinions presented here but it seems to be the opposite of what I've seen in the pre-allo forums for trad students. Is research somehow more important for them, or are they all gunning for Harvard? I haven't been able to find a research opportunity either and it concerns me. I do volunteer in a hospital ED (150+ hours and counting) and I'm planning to start shadowing soon.

People are very neurotic and think that if something could conceivably be a plus then it's a must. I think this is pretty much unjustified. Everyone has their own strengths and interests and natural opportunities and it makes sense to build on those rather than try to cop someone else's.

I was asked in an interview whether I had done any research. I said no. It was fine.

 

[QofQuimica]

I absolutely respect the opinions presented here but it seems to be the opposite of what I've seen in the pre-allo forums for trad students. Is research somehow more important for them, or are they all gunning for Harvard? I haven't been able to find a research opportunity either and it concerns me. I do volunteer in a hospital ED (150+ hours and counting) and I'm planning to start shadowing soon.

Reading SDN, you'd also get the impression that the national average for MCAT scores is a 35-36. It ain't.

Speaking as someone who has been on the other side, there is no one silver bullet EC that matters to the adcom. The ideal candidate is someone who is stellar overall, both academically and nonacademically. This may or may not include research. If it does include research, it's not the having done research itself that is impressive; it's the dedication to something and the ability to follow it through. An applicant who has stuck with research for 2+ years, presented a poster or two, and is able to explain the hypothesis and future direction of the project is very impressive, because that's not the norm. If they've also managed to publish a paper, that's even more impressive. But someone who has spent a semester washing glassware and pouring gels is not going to gain much in the way of brownie points for that, because that doesn't show consistency or dedication at all.

If you want to try research, it won't hurt you. But again, unless you're applying for dual degree research programs, you are not required to have done research. Med schools value the Sunday school teachers, the musicians, the artists, and the athletes too. The best advice I can give to any of you is to pick one, maybe two activities that really matter to you, and go for depth rather than breadth. Come to your interviews and be passionate when you talk about that activity to the point that your interviewer feels like it's exciting too.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Med schools value the Sunday school teachers, the musicians, the artists, and the athletes too...

I'm beginning to wonder about that Q. I've only got 1 rejection so far (Vanderbilt, which wasn't a surprise, they wanted research) but over half of the other schools that I applied to are in limbo. I'm not terribly worried, since my state school is the one that I'm depending on, and I have a first day interview there, but the deafening silence from the others makes me wonder. I didn't THINK I did that badly on my essays.

 

[familyaerospace]

I have research, mostly because I have a MS degree.

 

[Prestone]

I'm in the same boat as you all. I am really hoping that reasearch isn't weighted very heavily because frankly, I don't have the time to accomplish this! I guess you could say that I have a little diverse background, coming from a BS in Aviation, A Commerical Pilot and Flight Instructor Certification, EMT-IV Certification, ED Volunteering hours (400+), 3.97 GPA, I will have an MBA in Healthcare Management (currently working on), A fulltime Aviation Analyst postion during pre-reqs (40+ hours per week) and about 5 physicians shadowed. I'm shooting for a 30 on my MCAT.

What I'm getting at is "us" non-trads have so much more life experience. I would hope (since I'm not going into any dual PHD programs) that ADCOMS will see life experience instead of research experience. I mean I would much rather say that I flew a jet with 109 passengers from Boston to San Francisco during an interveiw then how I cleaned rat crap out of cages and spent a grueling semester doing it. I mean most traditional students these days haven't even worked a real job (and no Starbucks Barista doesn't count). Overall I just think other experience should be valued at a higher level (but thats wishful thinking).

 

[siliso]

I'm beginning to wonder about that Q. I've only got 1 rejection so far (Vanderbilt, which wasn't a surprise, they wanted research) but over half of the other schools that I applied to are in limbo. I'm not terribly worried, since my state school is the one that I'm depending on, and I have a first day interview there, but the deafening silence from the others makes me wonder. I didn't THINK I did that badly on my essays.

Dude. You're doing fine.

 

[Halfling]

Hello Everyone -

Do a lot of you non-traditional applicants have research experience? I am taking my last prerequisite before the MCAT (graduated college 4 years ago with a Bacheor of Arts), volunteering at a hospital, and working full time 50 hours a week. Do schools look down upon you if you don't have any publications or lab work when applying (given that they know you're out in the workforce and not simply an undergrad)? I'd love to do it but don't have the time as I'm focusing on studying for the MCAT and volunteering in my spare time.

I'm just curious to see what other individuals have done if they haven't had the opportunity to get in a lab and complete publishable work.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

I think you're fine. Working 50 hours a week along with all the other stuff is great!

However, I am a little biased. I think if you have 150-200 hours of volunteering then you're better off trying research. (You can volunteer at a lab just to get a feel for it, and maybe present a poster on one of the grad students research u're helping.) Maybe just spending a little time in a lab and having something to say during the interview might give you the edge when asked about research. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you want to try and be a well rounded individual as mentioned above, and knowing that you have done some research might help you when adcoms pick students to interview.

But you're in good standing. You seem to have a lot on your plate and that makes you stand out! Good luck...

 

[NY509]

Thank you for the responses everyone, it is much appreciated and very insightful.

On a similar note, how have you gone about shadowing physicians? I'm simply calling doctor's offices in the area to see if they provide shadowing opportunities. I'm familiar with some of the responses previously posted on here and other websites, just curious if anyone has some anecdotal/successful ways of securing some shadowing experiences.

Cheers everyone.

 

[murfettie]

I did one semester of research on sexual regret...
needless to say, I got really really afraid of frat parties after that.
I submitted mid Sep - so.. let's see how I fare

Actually I feel bad because I worked (got paid) for less than a year after college when I went back to do a postbac, so now, I'm stuck with no real job experience, and not like one of those trad students who wanted to be a doctor since age 2...

 

[bassvp]

It's really hard to get a good feel for this answer. In the Non-Trad forum, they'll tell you that research doesn't matter much. In the Pre-Allo forum, research is the Holy Grail (aside from the 45T MCAT).

Here's the deal though, the only "non-opinion" that I can think of is the MSAR. The school with the lowest % of accepted applicants with research experience is 52% in Mississippi (though I may have missed one) and...oh yeah...no OOS there. Then there's Louisiana, Kansas and Loma Linda pushing the high 50's...all the way up to the high 90's for research heavy schools (seems like average is 80-85%).

So...it's hard for me to pretend that the rest of my application is better than these folks' applications. Even if 40% of the accepted applicants don't have research experience...it seems like you're on the wrong end of the stick in an already sticky application process. May it just so happens that that many people do research, therefore that's what the acceptances look like...but it's hard to believe that that many people do it and med schools coincidentally accept them in high numbers.

I hope that I have someone like Q looking at my app so that research is less of a checkbox to check off.

Just a thought...looks like the midwest and south have the lowest % of accepted applicants with research experience.

 

[EdLongshanks]

It's really hard to get a good feel for this answer. In the Non-Trad forum, they'll tell you that research doesn't matter much. In the Pre-Allo forum, research is the Holy Grail (aside from the 45T MCAT).

Here's the deal though, the only "non-opinion" that I can think of is the MSAR. The school with the lowest % of accepted applicants with research experience is 52% in Mississippi (though I may have missed one) and...oh yeah...no OOS there. Then there's Louisiana, Kansas and Loma Linda pushing the high 50's...all the way up to the high 90's for research heavy schools (seems like average is 80-85%).

So...it's hard for me to pretend that the rest of my application is better than these folks' applications. Even if 40% of the accepted applicants don't have research experience...it seems like you're on the wrong end of the stick in an already sticky application process. May it just so happens that that many people do research, therefore that's what the acceptances look like...but it's hard to believe that that many people do it and med schools coincidentally accept them in high numbers.

I hope that I have someone like Q looking at my app so that research is less of a checkbox to check off.

Just a thought...looks like the midwest and south have the lowest % of accepted applicants with research experience.

What the MSAR doesn't tell you is how much of that research experience is significant. Even I have a poster presentation - so I fit into the "have research" category. Nevertheless, I don't have any significant research experience and schools that expect it (like Vanderbilt) didn't even offer me an interview.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I never did research, never published a paper - didn't want to, didn't care about it. Was never asked about it. Don't worry too much unless you looking to be a medical researcher as a physician looking for a career at NIH or some other type facility.

 

[yohji]

i think it helps a lot, especially if you have any weak spots in your application. if you're busy now, you can find a research group and see if they will let you volunteer a smaller number of hours a week. research can be anything - it doesn't have to be clinical or bench research. i work in qualitative research, which was kind of related to my background and my interests.

 

[n3xa]

Well, seeing as I got an MS and a PhD before med school, yes, I had done quite a bit of research. But, unless you're applying for a research-intensive program (MD/PhD or MD/MS), you aren't expected to have done research. It's not going to hurt you if you want to try your hand at it, but it's not required. Clinical exposure of some type, on the other hand, is completely required, so good move on the hospital volunteering. Best of luck with the MCAT.

This.

Only one girl out of ~20 post-baccs I encountered as an undergradling actually did benchtop research (organic synthesis) and everyone in the program ended up getting in somewhere to their liking (DO/MD).

YMMV.