Research in Medical School (if you already have your Ph.D. before MD/DO)

[seewag]

Hello. I was wondering what kind of research opportunities are available for MD/DO students who already have a PhD before enrolling.
Can I do research in a lab while in medical school? If so, will it be a fellowship/tuition aid.
I understand MD/PhD or DO/PhD split time between academic years to do research while going to medical school. In my case, I do not think there is any point in applying for an MD/PhD. I do not even if know if a double PhD in the same field is even allowed.
Thanks for your replies.

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[ratherberocking]

I'm also very interested in this question, since I might get my PhD before the MD. The little that I know is from a professor I had (PhD) who went back to school for the MD. He had to pay full price for schooling and could not take part in the MD/PhD program. Maybe each school is different.

 

[Neuronix]

The little that I know is from a professor I had (PhD) who went back to school for the MD. He had to pay full price for schooling and could not take part in the MD/PhD program.

This is how it works. You already HAVE a PhD. No MD/PhD program is going to let you get two of them. If you want to get involved in research as a medical student that's great.

The funding for medical students to do research involves applications for funding for summers of research, year out, and 4th year elective time. This money is competitive and not always available. It only pays you a stipend for while you do research and does not help you with medical school debt.

Examples:
http://www.ddcf.org/page.asp?pageId=292
http://www.hhmi.org/grants/individuals/medfellows.html

Medical school is a busy and difficult time that does not allow for significant research. It's almost unheard of to do significant lab work while in medical school. Anything you do work out would have to be with an individual lab.

 

[seewag]

I had an impression that maybe the case. Does that mean you forgo research for 4 years + residency? That seems like a big waste of the Ph.D. experience.
Also, the cost factor is critical because being an M.D./Ph.D. researcher is not the best compensated person in medicine. A 200K medical school loan can never be paid back in a relatively short period.
I have started emailing specific schools with this question. Have not heard back yet.

 

[Neuronix]

I had an impression that maybe the case. Does that mean you forgo research for 4 years + residency? That seems like a big waste of the Ph.D. experience.

You can take a year out and spend what elective time you have doing research if you choose. Residencies often have built in time for research. Medical school and residency are times for CLINICAL training. That's what an MD is for. You have to get that clinical training somewhere.

Also, the cost factor is critical because being an M.D./Ph.D. researcher is not the best compensated person in medicine. A 200K medical school loan can never be paid back in a relatively short period.

http://www.lrp.nih.gov/

That's your main option if you do continue doing research after residency. Otherwise you will easily clear 100k/year as a physician-scientist, and you will just have to pay back your loans.

 

[seewag]

This is how it works. You already HAVE a PhD. No MD/PhD program is going to let you get two of them. If you want to get involved in research as a medical student that's great.

The funding for medical students to do research involves applications for funding for summers of research, year out, and 4th year elective time. This money is competitive and not always available. It only pays you a stipend for while you do research and does not help you with medical school debt.

Examples:
http://www.ddcf.org/page.asp?pageId=292
http://www.hhmi.org/grants/individuals/medfellows.html

Medical school is a busy and difficult time that does not allow for significant research. It's almost unheard of to do significant lab work while in medical school. Anything you do work out would have to be with an individual lab.

I did check out HHMI earlier. They do not provide the fellowship to those with a Ph.D. already

I guess an extension of this issue is, can I work in a lab with just a stipend every month? Is this common among medical school students who are not in the M.D./Ph.D program. I have been poor these past years, but with a stipend but atleast I could live. M.D. with no work possibilities, especially in a lab, seems even worse. I guess this is what you go through for having a (mid-schooling) change of mind

 

[Neuronix]

I guess an extension of this issue is, can I work in a lab with just a stipend every month?

Only if you find a lab that will pay you under such an arrangement. Frankly they'd have to be crazy because you won't have the time to make a significant contribution and pass (let alone do well in) medical school.

Is this common among medical school students who are not in the M.D./Ph.D program.

Extremely uncommon/practically unheard of. I have seen medical students with part-time jobs where they used to work at random places (Starbucks, butcher shop) when medical school starts, but they quit those jobs definitely before third year but typically within a few months.

I have been poor these past years, but with a stipend but atleast I could live.

Part of the loan money is for your living expenses.

 

[seewag]

You can take a year out and spend what elective time you have doing research if you choose. Residencies often have built in time for research. Medical school and residency are times for CLINICAL training. That's what an MD is for. You have to get that clinical training somewhere.



http://www.lrp.nih.gov/

That's your main option if you do continue doing research after residency. Otherwise you will easily clear 100k/year as a physician-scientist, and you will just have to pay back your loans.

Wow. Did not know that existed. Thank you very much. You make a good point about the clinical experience during medical school. Duh!.
I am exploring to see if I can multi-task my way out of medical school debt and not lose my biomedical science background.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hello. I was wondering what kind of research opportunities are available for MD/DO students who already have a PhD before enrolling.
Can I do research in a lab while in medical school? If so, will it be a fellowship/tuition aid.
I understand MD/PhD or DO/PhD split time between academic years to do research while going to medical school. In my case, I do not think there is any point in applying for an MD/PhD. I do not even if know if a double PhD in the same field is even allowed.
Thanks for your replies.

OP, there are several of us who are PhDs-to-MDs, and I have compiled a post with links to common questions in the FAQ sticky thread at the top of this forum. You may find it helpful if you haven't already taken a look at it.

To answer your questions:

1) In most cases, the only time you will be able to do research during medical school is in the summer between your first and second years and for 2-3 months of your fourth year elective time.

2) There *are* scholarships available for med school, but they are few and far between. Usually they cover only tuition, and then you will have to take out loans for living expenses if you don't have a spouse or other family member who can support you while you're in school. I'm telling you this with the caveat that the most likely scenario is that you will *not* get a scholarship for medical school. Even highly competitive applicants should not count on getting a medical school scholarship. In a nutshell, you should expect that you will have to take out loans to cover all of your tuition and living expenses, and plan your affairs accordingly.

3) You are definitely not eligible to apply for MD/PhD if you already have a PhD.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

 

[JDWflash44]

At CCLCM there is a student who had completed her PhD and then a post-doc at CCF and then entered the medical school and ran her own lab throughout school, so I guess it can be done, of course she is by far the exception, not the rule.

You may want to look at CCLCM, they encourage research (have multiple PhDs that are students) and there are no tests or grades for your first two years, so it free up time to do things like research. Oh and it's tuition free

 

[Treg]

I did my PhD before med school. I would say it really depends on your motivation, where you are at for med school (support of your program and the lab), and what your plans are in the long term.

I received two full MD scholarship offers for medical school (Wash U/Pittsburgh) after doing my PhD but ended up staying at my PhD school to continue research while in med school. I am from the US and came to Canada for my PhD (married a Canuck after undergrad), so I am at a Canadian school where tuition is only around $11K/year. In my province, there is a part-time PDF funding program for people in med school who stay here after doing a PhD. It provided me a 25% salary + supply allowance during my first two years of med school. There are no other funding programs (trust me, I have looked). Anyway, so cost-wise it made sense. I have a great, very well-known research supervisor here in my chosen specialty. He gave me $$ to hire a full-time tech for my project, and he topped up my salary. I ended up getting a full-time fellowship award from a funding agency in the beginning of second year, and as an agreement I took a year off between MS-II and MS-III to work on my pdf full-time. Now I am back in MS-III. I am currently a PI on a grant I wrote last year, so I am still trying to stay active in research during my clinical rotations. This has not been easy....but it is working out so far. I have been very lucky and have managed to publish >20 papers so far while in med school (around 50% first-authored). I recognize this is a rather unusual path and that I have been extremely fortunate. I would not have been able to do this if it had not been for the 'perfect storm' of MD program support, supervisor, great lab technicians, and a successful project.

If you have any more specific questions, PM me.

Treg