Research or Clinical Experience?

[mellocellofello]

I currently work full-time on a non-clinical epi study. The center I work in has recently started a COVID-19 study, and is seeking current staff from other studies to fill in on the COVID-19 study until they can hire more staff. If I decided to work on the COVID-19 study for a few months, I'm wondering if it would count as clinical experience. My responsibilities would include recruiting and consenting participants in an inpatient hospital setting and completing surveys with the participants. I could also potentially be collecting biospecimens and be in direct contact with patients who are known to be infected with the virus.

Another more general question I have: What would it take for a clinical research position to be considered clinical experience?

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[Goro]

If you're interacting with patients, then it's clinical.

 

[zeddd78893]

When you submit AMCAS this would still be classified "research" but you could talk about the clinical experience and patient interactions and how they impacted you. My clinical research was 1 of 2 main clinical experiences I had so lmk if you have questions come application time

 

[Catalystik]

I currently work full-time on a non-clinical epi study. The center I work in has recently started a COVID-19 study, and is seeking current staff from other studies to fill in on the COVID-19 study until they can hire more staff. If I decided to work on the COVID-19 study for a few months, I'm wondering if it would count as clinical experience. My responsibilities would include recruiting and consenting participants in an inpatient hospital setting and completing surveys with the participants. I could also potentially be collecting biospecimens and be in direct contact with patients who are known to be infected with the virus.

Another more general question I have: What would it take for a clinical research position to be considered clinical experience?

Sometimes you get a choice in how to label an activity if it covers multiple categories as this one does. If you "need" it to count as clinical experience due to otherwise sparse active patient experience at the time you apply, you can call it Employment-Medical/Clinical (for AMCAS) but mention the research aspect in the name you give the space and in your description (where you'll also give details of your role interacting with current patients).

 

[mellocellofello]

If you're interacting with patients, then it's clinical.

Sometimes you get a choice in how to label an activity if it covers multiple categories as this one does. If you "need" it to count as clinical experience due to otherwise sparse active patient experience at the time you apply, you can call it Employment-Medical/Clinical (for AMCAS) but mention the research aspect in the name you give the space and in your description (where you'll also give details of your role interacting with current patients).

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I've got a follow-up question. If I accepted this temporary clinical position, I would have to reduce my clinical volunteer hours (my only clinical experience and only recent volunteer experience) due to increased workload. Right now, I plan to have ~150 clinical volunteer hours by the time I apply. If I take on the clinical research position, I would probably only be able to reach a max of 120 clinical volunteer hours. As someone who is coming back from a poor undergrad GPA, I realize that reinvention-friendly schools prefer to see lots of service to others. Would this be too few recent volunteer hours? I've been volunteering with this organization for a year and a half, but I realize that the cumulative total is not very high (due to full-time work, post-bac classes, and having a family).

I suppose my question boils down to: Would it be better to apply with a) 150 clinical/recent volunteer hours or b) ~120 recent clinical volunteer hours + 200 clinical employment hours?

 

[Catalystik]

If I accepted this temporary clinical position, I would have to reduce my clinical volunteer hours (my only clinical experience and only recent volunteer experience) due to increased workload. Right now, I plan to have ~150 clinical volunteer hours by the time I apply. If I take on the clinical research position, I would probably only be able to reach a max of 120 clinical volunteer hours. As someone who is coming back from a poor undergrad GPA, I realize that reinvention-friendly schools prefer to see lots of service to others. Would this be too few recent volunteer hours? I've been volunteering with this organization for a year and a half, but I realize that the cumulative total is not very high (due to full-time work, post-bac classes, and having a family).

I suppose my question boils down to: Would it be better to apply with a) 150 clinical/recent volunteer hours or b) ~120 recent clinical volunteer hours + 200 clinical employment hours?

From my point of view, either a) or b) would be fine for covering active clinical experience expectations at the majority of med schools, but you'd be likely to get extra "bonus points" for a having a gig that is COVID-related.

Are you saying you have zero nonclinical volunteering to list?

 

[mellocellofello]

Are you saying you have zero nonclinical volunteering to list?

I do have some some non-clinical volunteering, just not very recent. 3 years ago I spent a year teaching English to middle/high schoolers in France, and I would volunteer extra time to lead discussions during the students' lunch hour. This totals about 100 hours. 4 years ago in college I would volunteer 1-2 hours per week with an organization that taught local middle school kids self-advocacy in government (e.g., how to work with the city council to accomplish things that benefit kids). This gave me about 50 hours.

 

[mellocellofello]

Hi @Catalystik, I have another follow-up question regarding the COVID study I mentioned in my previous posts.

I originally thought that I may be entering patient rooms and interacting with patients face-to-face. While I do need to enter the hospital's COVID ward to pick up/drop off consent forms and specimen collection kits, I do not interact with the patients face-to-face. When a patient needs to be consented or complete a survey, I call the patient on the phone rather than visit the patient in-person. Would this still be considered a clinical experience despite a lack of face-to-face interaction with patients? It would really help my application to be able to call this clinical experience, but I don't want adcoms to think I'm making this job out to be something it isn't.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi @Catalystik, I have another follow-up question regarding the COVID study I mentioned in my previous posts.

I originally thought that I may be entering patient rooms and interacting with patients face-to-face. While I do need to enter the hospital's COVID ward to pick up/drop off consent forms and specimen collection kits, I do not interact with the patients face-to-face. When a patient needs to be consented or complete a survey, I call the patient on the phone rather than visit the patient in-person. Would this still be considered a clinical experience despite a lack of face-to-face interaction with patients? It would really help my application to be able to call this clinical experience, but I don't want adcoms to think I'm making this job out to be something it isn't.

No. Sorry.

 

[LizzyM]

You are new here. See my sig line. You don't have to be touching the patients for something to be clinical experience but you need to be in very close proximity.

 

[mellocellofello]

No. Sorry.

You are new here. See my sig line. You don't have to be touching the patients for something to be clinical experience but you need to be in very close proximity.

Thanks for your responses. This may be grasping at straws, but would it make a difference if I could see the patients through a barrier (i.e., the window to their room) while consenting/administering the data collection instruments? Whenever possible we try to at least make ourselves visible to the patients while we speak on the phone even though we aren't able to sit face-to-face with the patients at their bedsides as we would do with non-covid patients.

 

[Catalystik]

Thanks for your responses. This may be grasping at straws, but would it make a difference if I could see the patients through a barrier (i.e., the window to their room) while consenting/administering the data collection instruments? Whenever possible we try to at least make ourselves visible to the patients while we speak on the phone even though we aren't able to sit face-to-face with the patients at their bedsides as we would do with non-covid patients.

Though you suggested it was not the case, despite the pane of glass between you and the patient, for me, it would make all the difference you want it to, as when you are looking at one another, it would become a close enough "face-to-face" experience.

 

[mellocellofello]

Though you suggested it was not the case, despite the pane of glass between you and the patient, for me, it would make all the difference you want it to, as when you are looking at one another, it would become a close enough "face-to-face" experience.

Thanks. I guess my definition of “face-to-face” was a bit too specific.

 

[LizzyM]

At least you are in the hallway and dealing with all the hospital rules, and the gurneys, etc that jazz.... it does give you a feel for the clinical environment.

 

[candbgirl]

Shadowing is different than clinical experience. You have enough shadowing as long as you have some hours shadowing a primary care doc.
What do you do as a pharm tech? Where do you work? Who do you deal with?

 

[Catalystik]

1) I have that many shadowing an oncologist. will try to get a primary care as soon as covid relaxes.

2) cvs. pharm techs there do everything so filling, typing rxs, calling doc offices, talking to pts about meds, helping them choose OTCs, selling prescriptions at pick up, affixing labels, stocking, more filling...the usual.

1) Sometimes oncologists take on the role of primary care provider, as they are giving longitudinal care anyway. If their patient has a fever or any illness, they see them. If the patient needs routine labs, studies, and exams with vaccinations, they take care of it. Etc. If you have already shadowed 50 hours and it took place in an office setting, you would know if this is true of the experience you already have.

2) For med school application purposes, pharm tech is not going to be viewed as "clinical" by most adcomms. It's still a great experience that adds to your candidacy, though.

 

[Catalystik]

Okay thank you that helps. Based off the numbers I gave before what do you think I should do in my two remaining years? I have to quick pharm job from covid and have 50 each in shadowing and clinical volunteering

Add more hours of clinical volunteering. The free clinic is a good place to gain hours if you can directly interact with patients in a helpful way. And don't forget that nonmedical community service is important, too.

 

[Catalystik]

Okay thanks. I'm glad you mentioned nonclinical because I have one more question! I have been volunteering at my house or worship for 7 years because, well, my family is a part of the congregation. Now, I have great experience with cooking/cleaning/distributing food to homeless w/ almost 1,400 hours but I guess the whole point of nonclinical volunteering is exposure to different communities that are not your own. As such, is this activity not a good idea to count as my main nonclinical volunteering?

How many hours have you added since graduating from high school? Adcomms will be more interested in the volunteering during the college years, though it's fine to include the earlier time as well.

How much do you interact with the homeless population that you feed? When did that start? They represent a diverse community.

 

[Catalystik]

Since college about 300ish, would have been close to double but covid. InteractED with homeless about every other week when we pass out food. The regular duties include cooking and cleaning up then passing food out to whoever attends the service, which many times includes the homeless or those searching for a meal. Summertime includes 5-8 hours a week at the garden where we grow veggies then someone collects them and passes them out to food banks and stuff.

Do leadership positions in nonprofits that are volunteer based count as well? I have a ton of that but it isn't working with disadvantaged people which is what I guessed the whole nonclinical volunteerism is getting at bc doctors should cultivate compassion etc.

Everything "counts." The relative value of various activities to a med school application is what we're discussing. And some of that is adcomm dependent.

Now let's not further derail the original purpose of this thread.