Research Programs Hate Pre-meds

[HealthHare]

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I've already started browsing some summer research programs and I've noticed that they don't seem to like pre-meds that much.

Most seem to be geared towards PhDs and MD/PhD.
Will marking MD put me at a disadvantage?
If I sort of lie about being interested in a research career will they find out?

This question has probably been asked already, but I want so fresh perspective.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Don't lie. People hate premeds because there is a perception that they are douchebags and/or only are doing research to put it down on their AMCAS rather than an interest.

The same perception was true at my lab (and I wasn't a pre-med when I started). If you are sincere, and work hard, and most importantly, seem interested, no one will care you are pre-med and they will love you. PIs love to see interested students.

Don't be a pre-med douche, it's obvious if you're only doing it to put it down as an experience on your AMCAS. For that, pick a research topic you like, it doesn't have to be related to medicine (e.g, dont be a PCR-boy at a cancer lab because you think it looks better...it doesn't and everyone else does that, pick another topic where you can get more responsibility).

 

[xanthomondo]

I've already started browsing some summer research programs and I've noticed that they don't seem to like pre-meds that much.

Most seem to be geared towards PhDs and MD/PhD.
Will marking MD put me at a disadvantage?
If I sort of lie about being interested in a research career will they find out?

This question has probably been asked already, but I want so fresh perspective.

...I think that's why most research programs don't like pre-meds.

 

[GellaBella]

...I think that's why most research programs don't like pre-meds.

👍

do not lie. It's obvious. Especially when you come to th PI later asking for a med school recommendation. What do you think the most important thing about research is?!...honesty! Just be sincere in your desire to do good research, to learn the process and the techniques.

 

[barcamdphd21]

Most labs hate pre med because most pre med just go to a summer program so they can put it in their resumes. It takes a great amount of effort for a lab to train you to do something right for the 3 months that the summer rotation last. The use valuable time and resources to help you learn and it bothers them when individuals don't show a genuine intererest in research. Since pre med are going to end up in medica school, most PIs alreay have a prejudice against them. That's is why some of them try to convince you to do PhD or at leat MD PhD.

Plus there is the other whole issue of the fight between PhD and MDs that you have to take into account.

If you are genuinely interested in their research, they will notice that and they will like you.

 

[Kaustikos]

If I sort of lie about being interested in a research career will they find out?

This question has probably been asked already, but I want so fresh perspective.

We'll find out. And then we'll make you clean the lab, fetch coffee and never do any research in the lab for the 3 months you're here. And don't even bother asking for a LOR.👎

 

[HealthHare]

I am actually genuinely interested in research.
I did something over the summer informally and would like to continue pursuing research. My only concern is that will me being MD focused limit my opportunities for competitive research programs.
If they were going to pick between two applicants with similar experiences, but one is pre-PhD, I'm sure they would lean more towards the PhD.

 

[Ischemic]

Oh where to start on why PIs hate premeds:

1. They come in thinking they're going to cure cancer when they can't even pipette correctly and they expect to be given their own projects?
2. They bitch about it when #1 doesn't happen
3. They don't care since this is "only for the medical school resume"
4. Not dedicated. They come in when they please because "I have so many other activities going on in my life"
5. They just have this attitude of entitlement because being premed is the best thing to ever happen in the history of mankind.
6. Your ineptness wastes valuable lab resources
7. Generally only stick around for a summer/semester/pretty short time only to get a LOC after doing #6

I can keep going but I got other **** to do

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Yup, exactly. It's OK to be a pre-med in a lab. It's not OK to half ass your work, feign an interest, waste valuable training time and then quit, and be a general douchebag.

For my last two years in the lab, I was in charge of training and general overseeing the other pre-meds, and it's because the grad students couldn't deal with the pre-meds. We heard one of them telling a grad student how he, as a pre-med fresh out of Chem 101, was so much smarter than the rest of us grad or pre-PhD students. It's annoying as hell.

 

[chiapet874]

I've already started browsing some summer research programs and I've noticed that they don't seem to like pre-meds that much.

Most seem to be geared towards PhDs and MD/PhD.
Will marking MD put me at a disadvantage?
If I sort of lie about being interested in a research career will they find out?

This question has probably been asked already, but I want so fresh perspective.

I have had no problem getting into research programs or labs- but that is because I show genuine effort and obviously put in a lot of effort (~3,000 hours over the course of 2 years)

 

[xanthomondo]

I have had no problem getting into research programs or labs- but that is because I show genuine effort and obviously put in a lot of effort (~3,000 hours over the course of 2 years)

Did you really count that or is that a guess?

 

[Kaustikos]

Did you really count that or is that a guess?

I really hope it's the latter. Who counts their employment time in hours? What next, minutes?

 

[surftheiop]

fwiw

I talked to a friend the other day who going to be starting in a PhD program next year and currently is running a "division" of his PI's lab. My friend is in charge of hiring undergrad research assistants, and he said he personally likes hiring premeds because he knows they will do all the busywork/cleaning/spreadsheets/etc. needed to keep the lab running without complaining about it because they are so obsessed with getting a good recommendation.

Also pre-meds are obsessed with getting published, so he can keep them on board with the promise of throwing their name on a paper. Where as if he hires people with an interest in PhD they are more inclined to complain about doing boring repetitive stuff to keep lab going.

 

[chiapet874]

Did you really count that or is that a guess?

I really counted

 

[chiapet874]

I really hope it's the latter. Who counts their employment time in hours? What next, minutes?

ppl always count how much time they did things in hours- especially for pre-med stuff; I know tons of people who "technically" did lab work for years- but they only went in for 3 hours a week.

 

[GellaBella]

I think every lab has a different opinion, probably based on past experiences. In my lab I mentored a pre-med student who was okay...I tried to get her to have her own project and be independent but it never happened. I constantly had to come up with the experiments for her to do each day. I also had another student who was applying to phd programs. She read up on her project from the beginning, was coming up with potential experiments to do, and even helped co-write a textbook chapter in her first few months because she was dedicated and serious about doing the required background research.

Using pre-meds as techs is fine but typically they want a project as well so they can talk about the research they've done.

I think, for me, there are three major deterents in having pre-meds in the lab based on mu experiences: (so try not to do these)

1. Many pre-meds are just there for a LOR so they don't embrace the learning experience and it's very obvious andfrustrating for those supervising them. Many people don't realize how much time it takes to mentor a new student in the lab, so often the grad students projects suffer or they are there even later at night trying to catch up time lost while mentoring during the day. This is okay if the student is genuinely interested and involved in the work, whether they are premed or not. It's not okay when they are obviously not interested.

2) pre-meds tend to be neurotic. Ok even med students are this way, heck even most of the vet studnts I've met have definite neurotic tendancies. I learned this through mentoring and when I taught the med school micro course at my grad school. Many student wantto be held by the hand and told exactly how to do something which is okay. But sometimes things are not a set in stone process ... I don't have an exact number of times you need to move your loop back and forth to get a single bacterial colony. ....many pre-meds and med students NEEDED an answer to this question despite me showing them my technique countless times. Ive also had pre-meds tell other students that our lab wasn't accepting new students because they wanted all the attention to themselves. I've also had med students try to convince me to dock points from various members of their class for various perceived misdeeds, like coming like to class or not talking/contributing during lab...which was odd cause it wasn't a group exercise.

3) there tends to be a false sense or the research process and how long it takes to publish a paper. Many students seem to think they can get one in a summer but it's not so easy. I jst graduated from my phd program and I got only a single publication actually published in 5 years. Most of my papers aregoing in for submition now (3 first author, one third) but that's after 5 years of hard work.

So there's a PhDs perspective from my experiences. I'd say those are the top reasons why I would be hesitan to take a premed without meeting them and trying to figure out what their motivations are. If they genuinely want to learn: awesome I would take them and train them in a heartbeat. It's just hard when so much time and money is on the line.

Wow sorry for the long post.

So

 

[TraderDoc]

From talking with previous research program coordinators. Unless the program is specified for pre-meds or pre-meds are encouraged to apply such as an SMDEP, then writing pre-med or having a career goal of being an MD will seriously hurt your application. Many of these programs want students who want to pursue a career in research, a PhD in biomedical science for example. You can do your best to convinve them that you wish to pursue translational rsearch with an MD, but even then those applicants who want to pursue a PhD will still get the nod over you. Unless you have a GPA of 3.85 or higher and have been published in Science, Nature, or Cell before as a junior in college at UPenn or Harvard, mentioning pre-med or writing an essay on why an MD is important for your research aspirations can kill your application.

 

[sylvanthus]

You can't really blame a lot of premeds for the above things you guys are bitching about. When research is pretty much a requirement to getting into medical school, you essentially have to do it whether you like it or not. Of course people are going to do the minimal requirement and try and get in and get out with a LOR as fast as possible, because they dont enjoy it! It is just one of those hoops you have to jump through to get into medical school. If it was not required (I know its not OFFICIALLY required, but may as well be), then you would have more sincere premeds doing research.

Why there is this laundry list of requirements to getting into medical school is beyond me. But, when you make all this stuff required, you're going to have people doing it who just want to mark it off the checklist.

 

[kiwifruit487]

From talking with previous research program coordinators. Unless the program is specified for pre-meds or pre-meds are encouraged to apply such as an SMDEP, then writing pre-med or having a career goal of being an MD will seriously hurt your application. Many of these programs want students who want to pursue a career in research, a PhD in biomedical science for example. You can do your best to convinve them that you wish to pursue translational rsearch with an MD, but even then those applicants who want to pursue a PhD will still get the nod over you. Unless you have a GPA of 3.85 or higher and have been published in Science, Nature, or Cell before as a junior in college at UPenn or Harvard, mentioning pre-med or writing an essay on why an MD is important for your research aspirations can kill your application.

I disagree. I've been pre-med since high school. I'm also a non-science major and have only minimal training in terms of science classes. But--I've also being doing research since then. What it all comes down to is genuine interest in research and ability to learn fast and work independently. The OP mentioned doing a bit of research before, so just mention that. Experience obviously help. But please don't fake it. If you only observed an experiment done, it's not the equivalent of having performed it. I've had summer students... and heck, one of them was a medical student actually, and he caught on fast, was very enthusiastic, and was genuinely interested in learning.

Being pre-med doesn't make it harder to get into research programs. Being a pre-med who only wants to pad resume does.

One more thing, I would also strongly suggest contacting PI's who have an MD themselves. Because they truly understand what it means to be an academic physician.

 

[CoolWhipp]

I would lie.

 

[TraderDoc]

I disagree. I've been pre-med since high school. I'm also a non-science major and have only minimal training in terms of science classes. But--I've also being doing research since then. What it all comes down to is genuine interest in research and ability to learn fast and work independently. The OP mentioned doing a bit of research before, so just mention that. Experience obviously help. But please don't fake it. If you only observed an experiment done, it's not the equivalent of having performed it. I've had summer students... and heck, one of them was a medical student actually, and he caught on fast, was very enthusiastic, and was genuinely interested in learning.

Being pre-med doesn't make it harder to get into research programs. Being a pre-med who only wants to pad resume does.

One more thing, I would also strongly suggest contacting PI's who have an MD themselves. Because they truly understand what it means to be an academic physician.

I agree with you to a point. Yes, being pre-med won’t make it harder to get into some research programs, especially ones where the PI can have an effect on your decision to be selected. But if you talk about more prestigious summer research internships that are funded by a school’s graduate division (aka for PhDs), then it would make no sense for them to accept students who have no interest in pursuing a career in research but just want to experience research for a summer. I can guarantee you that if you write pre-med on your application to programs like AMGEN, Yale Biostep, WashU BiomedRap, Hopkin’s SIP, and Mayo SURF, it will hurt your application. These programs are coordinated with the PhD graduate programs of these schools, and thus want to recruit grad students and not medical students.