Residencies affiliated with a religion?

[3lefts]

I know that this has been discussed to some extent with regards to Loma Linda, but does anyone have any thoughts about what it is like to attend a residency affiliated with a certain religious group? Does the religion play much into the day-to-day life of residents? At the moment, I am looking into Pine Rest Christian Mental Health Services. It looks like a nice program but neither myself nor my spouse is Christian, and I identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. We certainly don't need to be surrounded by people with the same political or religious perspectives as ours, but are interested in a socially open environment where we can comfortably be ourselves. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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[nexus73]

My advice, practical advice anyways, is stick to the coasts or metro areas with 400,000+ population.

 

[northernpsy]

Do you have ties to the area that are making you look at Pine Rest? I don't have experience with the Pine Rest residency, but I am originally from MI. if you have never been to Grand Rapids, I hope you are aware that it probably one of the most politically and religiously conservative parts of Michigan. I am sure there is a gay community there, but I would expect the gay community in a place like Ann Arbor or in certain suburbs of Detroit to be much,much more prominent.

 

[3lefts]

Do you have ties to the area that are making you look at Pine Rest? I don't have experience with the Pine Rest residency, but I am originally from MI. if you have never been to Grand Rapids, I hope you are aware that it probably one of the most politically and religiously conservative parts of Michigan. I am sure there is a gay community there, but I would expect the gay community in a place like Ann Arbor or in certain suburbs of Detroit to be much,much more prominent.

No particular ties to the region except that I am in med school in the Midwest and we like it here. We were born and raised on the coasts and our families are still there. We have some friends who are openly in a non-traditional relationship configuration (poly?) from the Grand Rapids area who vouched for it being a nice place to live (and we are big fans of founders brewing co!), so I was hoping there might be at least some like minds? I get what you're saying though. I think Ann Arbor would be my first choice too, just trying to look into a variety of programs in case I don't get much love from the bigger names.


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[Nymphicus]

With so many programs to pick from, why pick one that you have doubts about the core tenets of their stated mission?

 

[3lefts]

With so many programs to pick from, why pick one that you have doubts about the core tenets of their stated mission?

I didn't want to write off a good program because of an assumption I made about it that wasn't true...


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[splik]

but is it a good program? ive never heard of it and it sounds like a funeral home and looking it up they give hardly any sick leave, the pay is below average

otherwise, there are christian programs and there are christian programs. the former are hospitals that happen to be christian. the latter have a christian approach to healthcare. kind of like tom price as HHS secretary saying prayer is the answer to addiction and we shouldn't be prescribing suboxone. pine rest seems to fall into the former category and actually prescribes real treatments. they even have groups from LGBT people (minus the Q+, that would be too much) LGBT Mindfulness Therapy | Pine Rest Christian Mental Health Services
though it looks like the facilitator trained at a "christian" psychology program (george fox university) where they explicity hold that "sexual relations be reserved for marriage between a man and a woman" so yeah... exactly where I want someone running an LGBT mindfulness group to have trained...

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I think most programs focus on evidence as much as the data has answered a small number of our infinite amount of questions. Religion inserted into training provides an interesting fall back opportunity that could be useful. When ever things become ethically grey, just turn up the black white contrast and remember "praise be to God and pass the ammunition." There may be some advantages in having some commonality between the beliefs of patients and providers, but I see nothing but quick sand when providers have strong beliefs that enter into the care decisions for patients who do not share the same values. Non-denominational care keeps care open to such radical ideas as preconceptive family planning.

 

[Information Underload]

I see nothing but quick sand when providers have strong beliefs that enter into the care decisions for patients who do not share the same values. Non-denominational care keeps care open to such radical ideas as preconceptive family planning.

Yes, but also the possibility for tremendous inroads and growth when those beliefs are shared or understood and acknowledged. The difficulty is assuming that one form of Christianity (we'll use that as the example) matches the faith of the patient, and like all aspects of mental health care, you have to explore that faith and what it means for the individual patient. There is a stabilizing force in faith, and there are also aspects of guilt that come through with anxious individuals, and having a therapist or psychiatrist who can approach these skillfully can be quite helpful.

I personally wouldn't want to work in a faith-based program if I didn't share that faith. It just seems to dilute and work against the mission and also might displace someone who would be a better fit.

 

[Candidate2017]

I have been at several Catholic-affiliated programs as a student or interviewee. The overall mission statement is set by the board but the atmosphere is set by the attendings and staff like at any hospital. My impression is very favorable because they seem more humane, professional and well-run than typical university or community hospitals. Faith-based hospitals aren't out to condemn people and their overriding principle is the call to serve.

These hospitals all had attendings and residents of various races and religions. Physicians who are willing join an organization with a creed that is different from theirs are naturally more open than university programs who preach tolerance but really only tolerate those who share the typical PC views in academia.

 

[northernpsy]

Yes, but also the possibility for tremendous inroads and growth when those beliefs are shared or understood and acknowledged. The difficulty is assuming that one form of Christianity (we'll use that as the example) matches the faith of the patient, and like all aspects of mental health care, you have to explore that faith and what it means for the individual patient. There is a stabilizing force in faith, and there are also aspects of guilt that come through with anxious individuals, and having a therapist or psychiatrist who can approach these skillfully can be quite helpful.

I personally wouldn't want to work in a faith-based program if I didn't share that faith. It just seems to dilute and work against the mission and also might displace someone who would be a better fit.

Agreed. The OP asked a good question, because I think finding a place you fit in and feel comfortable is good. Just because an explicitly religious atmosphere may not be right for you or I doesn't mean these programs are wrong or shouldn't exist. Just as not every residency is the right fit for an applicant, not every psychiatrist is an equally good fit for every patient, so we should encourage a diverse range of perspectives in our field.

My own approach is pretty secular (other than encouraging patients to connect with their pastor or church friends if the religious community they are in seems like a healthy support system for them) but I don't have a problem with colleagues who are explicit about having a religious belief. There are patients who will feel much more comfortable opening up to a doctor if they know that doctor shares their beliefs. There are patients who are suspicious of psychiatrists precisely because they know many psychiatrists are secular and politically liberal. For someone of that view point it could be very helpful to be able to point them in the direction of a group of doctors who are comfortable praying with patients but can also gently nudge patients to accept that prayer alone isn't going to heal their bipolar disorder.

 

[SeniorWrangler]

Look, if you have questions, don't go anyplace without asking people who are there already in confidence what the situation is like.
Once you've accepted and moved there is the wrong time to find out that you're not welcome.

 

[3lefts]

Glad this sparked a fruitful conversation! Thanks for your insight everyone.


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