Residency Advice for an IMG Student?

[SanRab1986]

Dear All

I am a Canadian citizen (now US Green Card holder) and I did my medical school in the Caribbean at Windsor School of Medicine. Unfortunately, I took Step1 without taking a test-prep course and I failed the first time. The second time, I was so nervous that I went into the exam center, started the test, but had a panic attack and left. I then took the Kaplan prep course and I finally passed my Step1 exam (196) in the Summer of 2012. I took a Kaplan course for Step2 and I passed step2 (197) on first attempt. These are not great scores but I am aiming for anything in FM, IM, psych, etc. (ie, not ultra-competitive specialties).

I entered the 2014 Match but unfortunately did not match, even did not match in the SOAP. I am now left wondering what I can do to help my chances for 2015 Match?

I am currently working on:
--finding research positions
--taking Step3
--trying to make connections with rural program directors for externship, research, etc

I am interested in finding out about any pre-residency fellowships, research positions, non-accredited programs, etc that I can benefit from. Does anyone have any leads?

Any advice from students who were in a similar situation and successfully navigated into a residency position would be appreciated. You can private message me if easier.

Thank you in advance.

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[GangaMaster]

I'm pretty sure this wasn't all their fault like you make it seem out to be.

 

[SanRab1986]

You are right, I take my share of the responsibility as well. Anyway, I am looking for advice for what to do now, not looking back at the past.

 

[DubVille]

Try to find a research (maybe non-paid) position in a place that has some residency spots. If you can really impress them you may have a small chance they will take you. I fear that if you simply reapply without any connections, your chances of matching are very small. Take step 3 and do well, reapply once more, and keep your fingers crossed.

If it doesn't happen next year despite your best effort, it may really be time to move on. As an anecdote, where I am doing my prelim year (small community hospital- cushy intern year) our categoricals were always img's. The average step 2 score for those matching this year was 244. Idk about step 1, also 1/3 of the categorical med residents are now AMG's.

Good luck

 

[Kaputt]

This past year, how many places did you apply to and how many interviews did you get? That will be a good proxy for how your chances are.

You probably know this already, but the harsh truth is that you are a bottom-of-the-barrel candidate. Your Step 1 failure and barely passing Step 1/Step 2 are major red flags. IM, FM, psych are no cake-walk for well-qualified IMGs, and with your track record, it's going to be extremely difficult for anyone to take a chance on you.

Your best bet for getting a residency position is to impress someone at a hospital that has a residency you could realistically obtain. Do research there, grow connections, whatever.

 

[SanRab1986]

Kaputt .... thank you soo much for the reply . I have applied into 242 programs and didn't receive any interview , I had even tried for SOAP ...no interviews during the match week . While I am well aware that my application is considered the bottom of the barrel , I have found some research positions and I m planning to take step 3 as well . I know that with my hardwork and persistent effort , i will definitely secure a residency position . It will take may take many years and many rejections . I m well assured that if I can study for the boards with the persisting attitude and soo many factors working against me . I pray that GOD will accept my hard work .

Also I wanted to ask if there is any good course to help prepare for step 3 . I know kaplan helped me for step 1 and 2 , but I don't know if there is anything better .

 

[Kaputt]

Kaputt .... thank you soo much for the reply . I have applied into 242 programs and didn't receive any interview , I had even tried for SOAP ...no interviews during the match week . While I am well aware that my application is considered the bottom of the barrel , I have found some research positions and I m planning to take step 3 as well . I know that with my hardwork and persistent effort , i will definitely secure a residency position . It will take may take many years and many rejections . I m well assured that if I can study for the boards with the persisting attitude and soo many factors working against me . I pray that GOD will accept my hard work .

Also I wanted to ask if there is any good course to help prepare for step 3 . I know kaplan helped me for step 1 and 2 , but I don't know if there is anything better .

Not getting any interviews is a bad sign. The SOAP doesn't really operate to help someone like you, as there are lots of well-qualified applicants with great scores who you are competing against in the SOAP. I don't know the numbers, but from what I've heard the SOAP is brutal for IMGs and your only real hope is the match itself. Step 1 and 2 scores are going to be the first thing a program director looks at. Seeing your Step 1 failure then your really bad scores on Step 1 and 2 is what torpedoed you. And honestly, you go to a Caribbean school that has very little name-recognition or track record. You have to be better than average on the Steps for anyone to take you seriously. These are things that you cannot change, unfortunately.

I don't think research positions and a stellar Step 3 aren't going to make a huge difference in your application. Most programs care far more about Step 1 and 2. With your track record of barely passing Step 2, I can't see how you'll do much better on Step 3 (the exams build on each other). No amount of hard work or persistence can repair your Step 1 or 2, or diminish that massive red flag. There aren't any do-overs here. Every year out from graduation you are, the lower your chances will be of getting a residency spot, simply because programs prefer fresh grads. Add in your red flags, and your chances are very close to zero.

I don't think there are any more things that your persistent attitude or hard work can do for you. Research and Step 3 cannot redeem a Step 1 failure and Step 1 & 2 scores below 200. I was really hoping you were going to say that you got a dozen interviews, because then I'd know there were programs out there who were willing to interview you.

I'm sorry to say it, but I think it may be best for you to plan for the worst -- which is not going on to residency. There are other jobs you can get with an MD, and I'd research them if I were you. You can try again for the match but I think the same thing is going to happen next year, even if you are above-average on Step 3 and do a productive research year.

 

[SanRab1986]

Kaputt .... thank you for your honest reply . While i am well aware of the competition and the fact the my application doesn't attract any programs for the time being . After all the struggles and triumph both internally and externally , I have faced . I will definitely not give up , maybe I will try till several years mean while trying build my CV and do a job with an MD . I was just wondering if you have heard of anyone in my situation that have succeeded . If so please let me what excatly have they done .

 

[naseeha]

Hey SanRab1986,

Sorry you didn't match this year. I'm also a Canadian citizen with a GC and come from a low tier Caribbean medical school. Try to take step 3 and do really well on it. It won't make up for past exam results but it will give them something positive to look at. Also, try to find out where most Windsor students match at and apply to those programs. If you know of any Windsor residents, try to get them to vouch for you. Good luck.

 

[boogaloo]

Kaputt .... thank you for your honest reply . While i am well aware of the competition and the fact the my application doesn't attract any programs for the time being . After all the struggles and triumph both internally and externally , I have faced . I will definitely not give up , maybe I will try till several years mean while trying build my CV and do a job with an MD . I was just wondering if you have heard of anyone in my situation that have succeeded . If so please let me what excatly have they done .

I know a foreign grad who went door-to-door for a year asking to merely shadow doctors. Eventually, he shook the right hand and got a prelim spot after doing a couple of years of research. He then matched into a different specialty than what he really wanted, and now he is miserable. Very, extremely miserable, but at this point, he has to stay in medicine to pay off his loans and make a decent living at the expense of waking up hating his life every day. Moral of the story: shake the right hands, and shotgun pray to all the gods; maybe one of them will answer. Your scores aren't competitive at all, and your history of multiple failures is probably indicative of how you will do in residency. My advice is to be realistic and pursue something else at this point, but you still have a chance I guess. Best of luck.

 

[GangaMaster]

Why didn't you two that went carib go to a higher tier school like SGU or AUC?

 

[Kaputt]

Kaputt .... thank you for your honest reply . While i am well aware of the competition and the fact the my application doesn't attract any programs for the time being . After all the struggles and triumph both internally and externally , I have faced . I will definitely not give up , maybe I will try till several years mean while trying build my CV and do a job with an MD . I was just wondering if you have heard of anyone in my situation that have succeeded . If so please let me what excatly have they done .

I definitely have not heard of anyone in a situation similar to yours succeeding. Post on ValueMD as well and see what input they have. But any success that may be in your future is entirely dependent on luck. Do you have any family members in medicine? Nepotism sure could help right now...

If you are not rich, I'd advise you to cut your losses. It would be expensive to applying again and fail again. You spent over $5500 in this past match cycle. Can you afford to do that again and again?

 

[Anastomoses]

I'm not trying to rub salt in a wound but...how does anyone take this exam and fail it outside of some disaster happening that day or the night before? Isn't everyone familiar with practice exams, NBMEs and like...question banks? I'm genuinely incredulous.

 

[Daodejing]

I'm not trying to rub salt in a wound but...how does anyone take this exam and fail it outside of some disaster happening that day or the night before? Isn't everyone familiar with practice exams, NBMEs and like...question banks? I'm genuinely incredulous.

I don't think you know OP or his/her condition. There may be a host of reasons that brings an applicant such a predicament, and it's not your role or mine or anyone's to question the process. I'm glad you know the resources you need to perform well on Step, but knowing that there are resources and performing well are two entirely different things. Anxiety over test-taking can really consume a person.

OP, I know you mentioned that you have worked hard to get to where you are, but as others have mentioned, it may be time to move on. Seek out other professions that pique your interest or fit your qualifications. If you still want to practice medicine, you may want to look elsewhere other than the US. 242 programs applied to and nothing to show for it may be a dire indicator that the ship has sailed, so to speak.

 

[Anastomoses]

I don't think you know OP or his/her condition. There may be a host of reasons that brings an applicant such a predicament, and it's not your role or mine or anyone's to question the process. I'm glad you know the resources you need to perform well on Step, but knowing that there are resources and performing well are two entirely different things. Anxiety over test-taking can really consume a person.

It's not that they are study resources; I would have thought it obvious that the implication is one can easily determine ones scoring capability and continue to study forever until he/she reaches the point that they are testable. I can't imagine being an IMG, barely hitting 200 on practice exams and thinking..."yeah, let's do this!". I remain incredulous.

 

[SanRab1986]

Thank you anastomoses for bringing up that point . If you would like to know how exactly all that happened or what was the whole thought process I will be happy to share my story , if it can benefit someone as to what not to do and hopefully people can learn from my mistakes and not repeat it .

 

[Anastomoses]

Thank you anastomoses for bringing up that point . If you would like to know how exactly all that happened or what was the whole thought process I will be happy to share my story , if it can benefit someone as to what not to do and hopefully people can learn from my mistakes and not repeat it .

You're welcome. Please tell the story.

 

[penguinism]

OP it doesn't look good. =/ I think your Step 1 record shows that you started the exam a second time and didn't finish, so it's going to look like you had to take it 3 times to pass. Couple that with a sub-200 scores on both Step 1 & 2 from a relatively unknown Carib school, and PDs are probably going to toss your application to the side. You might be able to impress someone with research years, but I think you have a steep uphill battle to get a residency slot.

Best of luck.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If you fail to match again next year, I think you should look into the 3-year NP program at Florida International University for IMG. I know a person who did that and he is practicing as a NP now.

 

[graviton]

I could also use some advice on getting a US residency as an IMG.

I'm a European going to a government funded medical school i.e. not a degree mill. I'm doing research and might also start doing a PhD. Grade wise I'm doing average (the grades don't matter when it comes to residencies around here).

How high should I score on STEP 1 to have a reasonable change of getting into anything mildly competitive? Is it possible to get into EM? Does having a PhD help at all?

Sorry for the hijacking.

 

[GangaMaster]

I could also use some advice on getting a US residency as an IMG.

I'm a European going to a government funded medical school i.e. not a degree mill. I'm doing research and might also start doing a PhD. Grade wise I'm doing average (the grades don't matter when it comes to residencies around here).

How high should I score on STEP 1 to have a reasonable change of getting into anything mildly competitive? Is it possible to get into EM? Does having a PhD help at all?

Sorry for the hijacking.

When it comes to grades, it doesn't matter for US students, however, for IMG it matters a lot; more than the NRMP survey makes it seem to be since they account for the opinions concerning US seniors. If the grades don't matter when it comes to residencies there, then you should stay there if you want to think that way, but if you want to come to the US, you better pick it up. How high should you score on Step 1, does this question matter? You aim to score 270+, then you get your score back and apply accordingly. That's how it works if you are IMG, don't aim to score average.

The fact that you go to a government funded medical school means 0000000000 to Program directors (it benefits you if they know your school and have residents in his/her program that went to your school), if you are foreign grad you are foreign grad. What matters is US clinicals, so they know you know how to practice medicine in the US. Ya, there are few hundred people a year with no US clinical experience that get in but don't expect to get into whatever residency you want.

I can't speak about the PhD, but the advice my Dad gave me, "Don't focus on too many things, you'll never get where you want to go"

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I could also use some advice on getting a US residency as an IMG.

I'm a European going to a government funded medical school i.e. not a degree mill. I'm doing research and might also start doing a PhD. Grade wise I'm doing average (the grades don't matter when it comes to residencies around here).

How high should I score on STEP 1 to have a reasonable change of getting into anything mildly competitive? Is it possible to get into EM? Does having a PhD help at all?

Sorry for the hijacking.

It seems like EM is getting more competitive; therefore, you should shoot for 240+ in StepI. If you fall below that, have other specialties like primary care ones (FM, Psych, IM and Peds) as back ups.

 

[sazerac]

If you still want to practice medicine, you may want to look elsewhere other than the US.

Can the OP get a residency in the Caribbean? Surely St. Kitts and the other islands have a need for doctors too. Windsor is an accredited school in St. Kitts.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'm not trying to rub salt in a wound but...how does anyone take this exam and fail it outside of some disaster happening that day or the night before? Isn't everyone familiar with practice exams, NBMEs and like...question banks? I'm genuinely incredulous.

When you go to a medical school that doesn't prepare you for Step 1, you walk into it thinking it's just another exam, without the intense (at least 4 weeks) preparation that generally is considered necessary for almost all medical schools.

It's easy to think about now (even as a MS-1), but when I was a pre-med, I knew the Steps were serious exams, but before I took the MCAT, I had no real idea of QBanks or excessive amounts of review books.

To OP - I would say your outlook is pretty grim. Your best bet is to try to set up meetings at rural FM programs with 100% IMG classes. Try to make a friend who will let you shadow them or do research with them. I don't think you are competitive for anything in IM or Psych.

 

[Kaputt]

When you go to a medical school that doesn't prepare you for Step 1, you walk into it thinking it's just another exam, without the intense (at least 4 weeks) preparation that generally is considered necessary for almost all medical schools.

I've found this to be more true at elite med schools. Like, people who killed the MCAT and got into top med schools thinking they'll just do well on Step 1 because everyone's told them they're super smart their whole life. Lots of top med schools don't teach to the boards at all so anybody who naively goes into their board study without realizing that is in for a rude awakening. Or maybe it's by choice -- people who have been overly ambitious their whole lives decide to chill out in med school and aim their ambitions lower.

In Caribbean schools, they teach to the boards from day 1 and make ruthless tests to weed out the weak. Their only metric of quality is their USMLE pass rate so they do all that's in their power to get that number high -- so they teach to the boards and hold back anyone who is in danger of failing. And on top of that, Caribbean students take months to prepare for the USMLEs.

 

[username456789]

When you go to a medical school that doesn't prepare you for Step 1, you walk into it thinking it's just another exam, without the intense (at least 4 weeks) preparation that generally is considered necessary for almost all medical schools.

Except that it's not uncommon for Caribbean students to spend months - if not years - studying for Step I. I'm having a hard time figuring out how the OP missed that memo.

 

[username456789]

.

 

[DermViser]

Except that it's not uncommon for Caribbean students to spend months - if not years - studying for Step I. I'm having a hard time figuring out how the OP missed that memo.

And PDs realize this about Carribean schools which is why they realize a high Step 1 from a Carribean grad doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[SanRab1986]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply . Each of your responses are taken into great consideration , I will definitely give a second thought about each of your advices . I graciously accept my big mistakes and I hope that i am one and the only one who is in this situation . Thank you all soo much .

 

[Anastomoses]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply . Each of your responses are taken into great consideration , I will definitely give a second thought about each of your advices . I graciously accept my big mistakes and I hope that i am one and the only one who is in this situation . Thank you all soo much .

Your humility is endearing. I do hope that you find a solution. Honestly, if there is a will then there is definitely a way...use your gracious nature to your benefit. Good luck.

 

[croak]

Don't give up. Don't settle, and as Anastomoses suggested: "use your gracious nature to your benefity,"—Good advice. You've earned an MD. Ignore the naysayers, the first door's open . . .

 

[evilbooyaa]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply . Each of your responses are taken into great consideration , I will definitely give a second thought about each of your advices . I graciously accept my big mistakes and I hope that i am one and the only one who is in this situation . Thank you all soo much .

Like Anasto said, you seem quite humble about your situation. I think your personality and work ethic (assuming it is very good) leaves you in a better position than others who may be in a similar boat.

Best of luck with getting a residency spot. Apply broadly to rural FMs and non-competitive prelim spots.

 

[Kaputt]

Don't give up. Don't settle, and as Anastomoses suggested: "use your gracious nature to your benefity,"—Good advice. You've earned an MD. Ignore the naysayers, the first door's open . . .

Financial ruin is one potential outcome of not "giving up". While I feel for the OP (I agree, OP is humble and I wish him/her the best), I don't even know if there are steps possible to repair the situation. False hope is a bad thing to give to someone sometimes.

OP, I think you should invest in a year of research and networking. Develop a relationship with a mentor who can step up to bat for you. Then go all in and apply again. If that doesn't work out, you should do something else.

 

[croak]

Financial ruin is one potential outcome of not "giving up". While I feel for the OP (I agree, OP is humble and I wish him/her the best), I don't even know if there are steps possible to repair the situation. False hope is a bad thing to give to someone sometimes.

OP, I think you should invest in a year of research and networking. Develop a relationship with a mentor who can step up to bat for you. Then go all in and apply again. If that doesn't work out, you should do something else.

Please, share with us what a medical student knows about "financial ruin?" I'm over 60, retired from medicine - general surgeon, and I'm curious what's considered by a person who's just set out on life's trail what is considered "financial ruin" —It's truly compelling how, in the absence life's experience you can conclude this in any way is considered "false hope." I've been broke, homeless, lived under a bridge, and failed over and over, and been told often there's no "hope," nope, none at all. That was several lives saved, millions of dollars, and a pleasant retirement ago. So, please, share with us what you consider "false hope?" Life is filled with challenges, often things do indeed look bleak, and the odds insurmountable. If it wasn't for folks like you—encouraging quitting—I'd be dead.

 

[Kaputt]

Please, share with us what a medical student knows about "financial ruin?" I'm over 60, retired from medicine - general surgeon, and I'm curious what's considered by a person who's just set out on life's trail what is considered "financial ruin" —It's truly compelling how, in the absence life's experience you can conclude this in any way is considered "false hope." I've been broke, homeless, lived under a bridge, and failed over and over, and been told often there's no "hope," nope, none at all. That was several lives saved, millions of dollars, and a pleasant retirement ago. So, please, share with us what you consider "false hope?" Life is filled with challenges, often things do indeed look bleak, and the odds insurmountable. If it wasn't for folks like you—encouraging quitting—I'd be dead.

The OP has failed attempts on Step 1 with a barely passing score on the 3rd try, with a Step 2 is also a barely passing score. OP goes to an unknown Caribbean school, while there is enough bias against the best Caribbean schools to keep their well-qualified students scared about matching.

I don't care if you're an old retired surgeon. You think that suddenly gives you insight into the what it takes to apply to residency these days? If it's just some sort of vague "don't give up on your dreams" speech you're trying to give, imagine that you're telling a high school kid with a 5th percentile SAT score to keep trying to reapply to Harvard every year until he gets in. Sometimes you need to be realistic and alter your dreams. There are many ways to live a happy and successful life, and for the OP being a practicing physician definitely isn't the only way. I'm not saying the OP should give up now, but after one more good try if the stars don't align, I don't think they ever will for this.

Go read up on the data the NRMP recently published about IMG matches:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/NRMP-and-ECFMG-Publish-Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-for-International-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

The data is clear: with 3 Step 1 attempts, the OP has a <20% chance of matching on that fact alone. Those barely passing scores, in the absence of multiple attempts, also puts OP in ~20% match range. The OP cannot retake Step 1 or Step 2. This is a part of the application that cannot be repaired. They don't have data that combine multiple Step 1 attempts and the low scores, but as independent variables the OP is looking at <20% chance. Add them together and the chances are rapidly approaching zero. No interview offers were extended to the OP this past year. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything significant the OP can do to turn this into a success story save finding a mentor that vouches for 'em. That or having a family member at a hospital use some connections to give the OP a shot.

I'm not trying to mock or crush the dreams of the OP. But this stuff is expensive. The OP spent over $5500 in application fees with nothing to show for it last year, and would likely need to apply to even more programs next time. $10k of debt from applications + the need to start repaying student loans soon is not a good recipe for "following one's dreams" right now. Glad you had a success story and were able to succeed against all odds. But the data here just isn't pretty for the OP.

 

[username456789]

Please, share with us what a medical student knows about "financial ruin?" I'm over 60, retired from medicine - general surgeon, and I'm curious what's considered by a person who's just set out on life's trail what is considered "financial ruin" —It's truly compelling how, in the absence life's experience you can conclude this in any way is considered "false hope." I've been broke, homeless, lived under a bridge, and failed over and over, and been told often there's no "hope," nope, none at all. That was several lives saved, millions of dollars, and a pleasant retirement ago. So, please, share with us what you consider "false hope?" Life is filled with challenges, often things do indeed look bleak, and the odds insurmountable. If it wasn't for folks like you—encouraging quitting—I'd be dead.

Did they just not teach statistics back when you were in medical school or what?

 

[WaylonS]

I could also use some advice on getting a US residency as an IMG.

I'm a European going to a government funded medical school i.e. not a degree mill. I'm doing research and might also start doing a PhD. Grade wise I'm doing average (the grades don't matter when it comes to residencies around here).

How high should I score on STEP 1 to have a reasonable change of getting into anything mildly competitive? Is it possible to get into EM? Does having a PhD help at all?

Sorry for the hijacking.

A big part of the equation is where you're from: if you're Swedish, many doors will be open, if you're Romanian, not so much.

There are many threads on how IMGs can match in the US, but since you're still a student, you may want to look into whether your university has any partnerships in the US so you can set up away rotations and hopefully get some letters of recommendation. Good luck!

 

[graviton]

look into whether your university has any partnerships in the US so you can set up away rotations and hopefully get some letters of recommendation.

They can only set up research opportunities due to differences in licensing (lack of Step 1?).

 

[Houmd]

I'm a recent Windsor graduate who matched into IM this year. Our school is smaller but most everyone I know applying ended up matching somewhere. A few did not, but that's what happens when you go to a carib school, you know already that the odds are against you. At least at windsor our debt isn't nearly what others paid.

While your chances seem very bleak of matching, I know of people that have done so in similar situations (though they were certainly the exception and not the rule) and it involved them networking.

Yes, OP can technically go back to the caribbean, I believe the process is a 1yr internship then some exam. There are also residencies in the caribbean that OP is eligible to compete for if so desired but the OP doesn't seem to want that.

Other options that I know people have done is the PA route. Getting hired after PA school is quite simple and easy to negotiate an above average salary if you also have an MD behind you. I haven't seen that NP route before that was posted but that's quite unique. We have a graduate in colorado that is a PA and head of some huge PA organization there as well.

There are plently of non-clinical possibilities that others have mentioned like research fellowships, MPH, go into consulting or even pharmaceutical sales ( an MD is much more likely to take another MD seriously than some big boobed blonde).

I sincerely wish you the best of luck OP and if want to feel free to PM me.

 

[DermViser]

Please, share with us what a medical student knows about "financial ruin?" I'm over 60, retired from medicine - general surgeon, and I'm curious what's considered by a person who's just set out on life's trail what is considered "financial ruin" —It's truly compelling how, in the absence life's experience you can conclude this in any way is considered "false hope." I've been broke, homeless, lived under a bridge, and failed over and over, and been told often there's no "hope," nope, none at all. That was several lives saved, millions of dollars, and a pleasant retirement ago. So, please, share with us what you consider "false hope?" Life is filled with challenges, often things do indeed look bleak, and the odds insurmountable. If it wasn't for folks like you—encouraging quitting—I'd be dead.

You're over 60? Oh, good. Then you know absolutely NOTHING about six figure medical school tuition or the increasingly high competition to get a match spot, which may not have even existed back then. Please continue to lecture, to us though. Hope you're enjoying your Medicare propped up by us.

 

[DermViser]

Did they just not teach statistics back when you were in medical school or what?

It was probably just the straight 7 basic science subjects back then, before rotations. Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics probably weren't an official part of the curriculum, like it is at most med schools.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Please, share with us what a medical student knows about "financial ruin?" I'm over 60, retired from medicine - general surgeon, and I'm curious what's considered by a person who's just set out on life's trail what is considered "financial ruin" —It's truly compelling how, in the absence life's experience you can conclude this in any way is considered "false hope." I've been broke, homeless, lived under a bridge, and failed over and over, and been told often there's no "hope," nope, none at all. That was several lives saved, millions of dollars, and a pleasant retirement ago. So, please, share with us what you consider "false hope?" Life is filled with challenges, often things do indeed look bleak, and the odds insurmountable. If it wasn't for folks like you—encouraging quitting—I'd be dead.

 

[DermViser]

Just like Ida Mae Fuller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_May_Fuller

Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 27, 1975[1]) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.

Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system. She later said about going to the Social Security office, "It wasn't that I expected anything, mind you, but I knew I'd been paying for something called Social Security and I wanted to ask the people in Rutland about it."

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

Just like Ida Mae Fuller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_May_Fuller

Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 27, 1975[1]) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.

Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system. She later said about going to the Social Security office, "It wasn't that I expected anything, mind you, but I knew I'd been paying for something called Social Security and I wanted to ask the people in Rutland about it."

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