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Residency in Australia

NRAI2001

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    Is it true that if you do a residency in Australia that it is equivalent to a US residency in terms of getting licensure in the US? Like if you did a residency in general surgery in the AU, could you move to the US and then practice surgery with out redoing a surgery residency?
     

    Dr.Millisevert

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      NRAI2001 said:
      Is it true that if you do a residency in Australia that it is equivalent to a US residency in terms of getting licensure in the US? Like if you did a residency in general surgery in the AU, could you move to the US and then practice surgery with out redoing a surgery residency?

      hmm.. Dont' quote me. But its my impression that:

      If you do a full General surgery training programme in Australia. Ie. 2 years (BST) Basic surgical training, followed by 4 years (AST) Advanced surgical training. And become a Fellow of the RACS here in Australia (equiv to getting Board certified in Gen Surg). Then I think if you write your USMLEs and get ECMFG certfied, and could write the US Board exams and/or be eligble for a subspecialty fellowship programme in the US. Then you may be able to practice in the US.
       

      NRAI2001

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        Dr.Millisevert said:
        hmm.. Dont' quote me. But its my impression that:

        If you do a full General surgery training programme in Australia. Ie. 2 years (BST) Basic surgical training, followed by 4 years (AST) Advanced surgical training. And become a Fellow of the RACS here in Australia (equiv to getting Board certified in Gen Surg). Then I think if you write your USMLEs and get ECMFG certfied, and could write the US Board exams and/or be eligble for a subspecialty fellowship programme in the US. Then you may be able to practice in the US.

        Is this also true for other fields like internal medicine and cardiology?
         
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        NRAI2001

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          flindophile said:
          Australian training does not count in the US. There are a few arcane exceptions for academics (you can find the rules in the book from the AMA on state licensure requirements); however, the scope of practice is very limited. With rare exceptions, specialists from other countries start over as interns in order to become licensed.

          Also, residency in Australia is generally quite a bit longer than in the US. Also, there is much more flexibility in the US system with respect to residency programs.

          My cousins fiance finished school in AU. THen did internal med and then cardiology residencies in AU. If he were to come to the US woudl process would he have to go through? Could he do a 1 year intership and then start practicing cardiology?
           

          neutropenic

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            NRAI2001 said:
            My cousins fiance finished school in AU. THen did internal med and then cardiology residencies in AU. If he were to come to the US woudl process would he have to go through? Could he do a 1 year intership and then start practicing cardiology?

            No.
            Postgraduate medical education does not transfer from overseas to the US. She would have to redo IM residency and then cards fellowship (6 years).
             

            NRAI2001

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              neutropenic said:
              No.
              Postgraduate medical education does not transfer from overseas to the US. She would have to redo IM residency and then cards fellowship (6 years).

              Could you do a 1 year intership and then practice cardiology? You would be a licenced physician, but would u be able to practice cardio?

              What about after a IM residency?
               

              Dr.Millisevert

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                NRAI2001 said:
                Could you do a 1 year intership and then practice cardiology? You would be a licenced physician, but would u be able to practice cardio?

                What about after a IM residency?


                Actually, I've heard of Australian and British trained docs who were only required to do a 1-2 year subspecialty fellowship in the states (and became US board certified) and were then allowed to practice. I think it is possible. You should contact some of these people and maybe they can give you a better idea of what's required.


                http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/c/colorectal/fs/radiology/neil-johnson.htm

                http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/people/dop/dopDetail.cfm?drid=611

                http://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medicine-rst/10275347.html

                http://www.spineuniverse.com/authorbio.php?authorID=90

                http://cvmedicine.stanford.edu/fellows/a_wilson.html

                http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/burn/faculty/milner/index.html
                 

                neutropenic

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                  Dr.Millisevert said:
                  Actually, I've heard of Australian and British trained docs who were only required to do a 1-2 year subspecialty fellowship in the states (and became US board certified) and were then allowed to practice. I think it is possible. You should contact some of these people and maybe they can give you a better idea of what's required.


                  http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/c/colorectal/fs/radiology/neil-johnson.htm

                  http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/people/dop/dopDetail.cfm?drid=611

                  http://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medicine-rst/10275347.html

                  http://www.spineuniverse.com/authorbio.php?authorID=90

                  http://cvmedicine.stanford.edu/fellows/a_wilson.html

                  http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/burn/faculty/milner/index.html

                  These are the academic exceptions previous alluded to.
                   

                  Dr.Millisevert

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                    neutropenic said:
                    These are the academic exceptions previous alluded to.

                    Some of them are in private practice as well.. for example:

                    http://www.siumed.edu/physurg/bios/milners.html

                    This is the same as the last profile in the last post. He did complete a plastic surg residency in the states, but that was after he completed his med and dent degrees and his prerequsite general and maxillofacial surgery training in the UK. So, yes.. in effect his previous training did count. And because he completed his plastic training in the US and is board certified.. he is able to enter private practice in the US.
                     

                    WaZoBia

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                      this is a long shot but if you're desperate then i guess it's worth a shot.

                      since training in canada is recognized by the US, nothing prevents someone who's been trained in Australia (most training in Australia, NZ, Singapore, Switzerland, South Africa, HK, the UK can be credited towards training in canada) from getting his/her degree(s) recognized by the RCPSC. then getting into the states.

                      in theory it should work, i assume it'd be a bit lengthy, one would probably have to prove that one intended to migrate to canada and then i'm guessing there'd be certain provinvcial requirements to meet. but if one was really determined, then it might be worth the trouble or one might just decide to settle down in canada, afterall in reality it's the 51st state ( :laugh: bring it on)

                      check out the link

                      http://rcpsc.medical.org/residency/certification/img_e.php
                       

                      Dr.Millisevert

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                        flindophile said:
                        These questions are too important to leave to speculation. There is a book published by the AMA entitled, State Medical Licensure Requirements and Statistics, that lists all the requirements state by state:

                        https://catalog.ama-assn.org/Catalog/product/product_detail.jsp?productId=prod240140?checkXwho=done

                        As I recall, there are some exceptions, but they are generally related to academic practice and the license is quite restricted. For example, they can only use the license for teaching purposes and it is only valid while employed by the university. There are a few states that allow some credit for overseas credentials but I believe it is quite limited. To be certain, you should read the appropriate chapter in the book.

                        Correct me if I'm wrong:

                        But I presume that would be the case if you had done all your training in a foreign country. But if you have your ECMFG certification, and have say completed general surgery training in Australia and then you apply for an ACGME accredited Cardiothoracic surgery residency in the states. (such as this one--> http://surgery.yale.edu/surgery_educ/cardiothoracic.html) Most US states only require 1-2 years ACGME training in order to register your degree and to allow you to practice. Completing a 2 year surgical subspecialty residency should suffice for this.. plus being that you’ve actually completed an accredited residency in cardiothoracic surgery. This would allow you to sit the exams and become US boarded in thoracic surgery. http://www.abts.org/ Then you would be allowed to enter private practice just like anyone else.

                        I agree that you should consult the individual states that you would wish to practice in as each may be slightly different. But I don't see why this wouldn't suffice as an acceptable pathway. :thumbup:
                         

                        DrIng

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                          One interestign excption- you can practice in the US with recognition byt he Canadian board of psychaitry through mutual recognition- but the canadian board will recognise some overseas (i.e UK and Australian) qualifications... so maybe possible through a circiutious route but generally i think not...
                           

                          Dr.Millisevert

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                            flindophile said:
                            I believe you have to do US surgery training to enter subspecialty training.
                            I don't think you can be eligible for the American Board of Surgery unless you have completed a US residency.

                            You are most likely correct. But I thought it might be an interesting route to becoming dual licensed. Maybe I'm missing something but I keep coming across people who seem to have done something similar. Here are a couple more examples I found.

                            http://www.regionalcancerfoundation.org/pGlastonbury.htm
                            Australian Radiologist who completed a fellowship in the US and is US board certified.

                            http://children.photobooks.com/directory/profile.asp?dbase=main&setsize=5&pict_id=9904570

                            http://www.plasticsurgery.org/md/WOODSMIT1.htm

                            http://www.brighamandwomens.org/mdSearch/MedicalProfessionalDetail.aspx?MPR=3832

                            http://physicians.montefiore.org/di...sicInfo&setsize=20&last=Edye&pict_id=11115262

                            http://www.palmettohealth.org/services/physicians/viewalldocs.cfm?center=PHHH
                            Look for Jennifer Feldman (scroll down) Cardiology

                            http://www.hopkinsbreastcenter.org/services/patient_care/boss.shtml
                            Kala Visvanathan (scroll down)

                            Here is someone who did it the other way around: did general surgery in the US and then did fellowship surgery in abroad.
                            http://www.llu.edu/lluch/pedsurg/stmoores.html?PHPSESSID=fdc15ebc7f4d520704fc41b12461
                             

                            Winged Scapula

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                              flindophile said:
                              I am not certain, but I think there are a few problems with this plan. First of all, I believe you have to do US surgery training to enter subspecialty training. I don't think general surgery training in Australia will count. For example, on the Yale cardiothoracic surgery web site for which you provided the link:
                              To qualify for admission to the program the applicant must be eligible for examination by the American Board of Surgery, having completed a full residency in General Surgery including a final year as Chief Resident.

                              I don't think you can be eligible for the American Board of Surgery unless you have completed a US residency.

                              Also, licensure requirements are different for international graduates -- usually a year or two longer.

                              It is quite frustrating but I don't think there are many ways around this.

                              Having just completed by application for Board Eligibility, the ACS (American College of Surgeons) requires that you have completed 5 years of general surgery training, including a Chief resident year, in an accredited US residency program. Most fellowships I saw required the same.

                              The same is not true for all specialties however, and it behooves anyone interested to look into the requirements of separate member boards.

                              It is not unusual for people trained in other countries to come to the US for fellowships (ie, Peds Anesthesia, Interventional Radiology, Hand Surgery [which is not an accredited fellowship and as such, does not require BC/BE in surgery]0; this is different than training abroad and trying to work in the US without US training.
                              Best wisdom...train where you want to work. You will find it much easier to get employed in the US if you train here.
                               

                              Leforte

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                                When I was a medical student, we had a peds intensivist fellow who married a US citizen and then wanted to stay - she completed her fellowship, but as she had not completed a US ped's residency, she had to start all over again. She did get a years credit for her fellowship work, and was allowed to start as a PGY-2 - but did have to complete an additional 2 years.

                                It is not only a question of getting licensure - that is the easy part... An extra year or two of training. The hard part is getting on insurance plans and malpractice coverage, who now-a-days require their participants to be board certified if more than 3 years out.

                                And, unfortunately, there is only one way to become board certified in a specialty ---- Completing a US residency.

                                The converse is true too - it is very difficult to go the other way. As a surgeon, If I wanted to go to Australia, I would have to have my qualifications recognized, either through the AMC or specialist pathway. Then I would be required to complete 1-2 years of supervised practice, which is becoming a resident (or specialist registrar as it is called in Oz). These positions are competitive with Aussies trying to get the same training positions, which for a foreigner, can be difficult to get. Once the training is completed, a RESTRICTED medicare provider number is given for 10 YEARS, and one must practice in an area of need - SO, no practicing in Brisbane, Sidney, Melbourne, etc - off I would be to Bundeburg, Mackay, Mt Isa, etc.

                                All medical societies in all countries are very restrictive on allowing foreign graduates. I actually think that the US is quite open to foreign graduates in that we have 24,000+ training positions available each year and just over 16,000 US graduates. The converse is not true. In Australia, to be an ENT, as an Australian citizen who attened an Australian medical school, I would have to do my internship, 2 years of BST, sit the exams, hope to score well enough, become selected and often times go into limbo for a few years waiting for a position to open up and then finally do my 4 years of ENT training. Minimum time of 7 years, and more likely 10+. In the US, my training is over in 5.

                                I do, however, agree with Kim, it is bst to start and complete post-graduate training in the country you intend on practicing in. It is very difficult to switch mid-career, although not impossible with a lot of determination.
                                 

                                naijabony

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                                  Hi. Am a Nigerian student presently in my last year BS-Pharmacy in the Philippines. I plan to go to medical school in the Philippines. I am thinking of moving to Australia to practice medicine. Pls I 'd like to know all information regarding foreign medical graduates practicing in Australia. I want to know if am on the right track...Thanx
                                   
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