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Residency in Germany , need to clear something out.

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drdeems

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I am a Canadian intern , and am interested in doing a residency in Germany in Surgery. There is one piece of information that i can't get to confirm though. Half the people i asked and websites i have found said that that the residency in Germany of international medical graduates is unpaid , and other half said was paid . So i am quite confused, and would appreciate to hear about this from someone who REALLY knows what the answer really is.

Thank for anyone considering to reply , i do appreciate any help anyone can give me!!

Have a great day!
 

Lini007

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If you do a residency in Germany you will get paid. However the pay isn't great. They have recently decided to increase doctor salaries in Germany with 8% but it's remains a big problem over there at the mo. Also there is a lot of hirarchy...so you should be prepared for a medical culture shock.

Good luck
 

drdeems

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Thank you very much for your quick reply Lini!!! I appreciate it! I dont really care if the pay is low , just as long as i know that i will make enough money while specialising there to support myself . If anyone else can confirm this for my own peace of mind i will appreciate it :) ..

Thank you again Lini, this is great news :)
 

med_heidelberg

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hi are you planning on staying in the EU for the rest of your career? german residencies arent recognized in the US, not sure if this applies to canada, but you may want to check up on that before starting.
 

drdeems

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That is def a valid point to check up on . I might be interested in a fellowship from the US or Canada . But considering that i want a specialization in Surgery i know that Germany is the best , By the end of my residency i will decide where i want to settle down. I guess being a Dr means that ur job decides your future for you. lucky us . lol

I will check and see where the german residency is accepted though and post it on here for others to see when i get the chance though :)

have a great day all!
 

SweetMD

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I assume you speak and write fluent German?
Otherwise it's really not a good idea to do your residency in Germany.

You will be paid during residency, yes.

I don't know why you want to go from Canada to Germany for surgery, but I assume you have a very specific field of interest?
German residencies are not organized like in the US and do not have a curriculum as such. The content will be driven by the chief of the department you work at - if this person is the best in his field for xyz procedure or disease and that's what you want - great. Because of this, many German docs change their hospital several times before appearing for the specialty boards - because often all the requirements for the boards cannot be satisfied in one place.

Also surgery in Germany takes a very very long time to complete - there is no guarantee of a timeframe by which you will be done and board eligible - it all depends on your chief. Hope this helps.
 

leorash007

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m really interested to do fellowship in orthopedics from Germany.
i have completed my mbbs and presently doing my internship.
Kindly advise me how to go through the exact procedure,
i will be highly obliged to you.
thanks and regards

-- Rashim Kamra
 

everst999

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hi bro i have done my mbbs from nepal in asia. i am also planning to do my post graduate in surgery in germany . so can you help to do so. plz give me idea how to apply and wat are its requirement to do so. i am wating for it.


can any one help me to apply in germany
 

rox

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Any idea about the competitiveness of various specialties in Germany? I am particularly interested in radiology and dermatology.

Along the same lines, my understanding is that language exams are needed to get a license rather than acceptance by programs. So can I start contacting programs and see if I can get anything even if I'm not proficient in German yet.
 

mmmiles

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Dermatology is one of the more competitive fields and radiology is somewhere in the middle.

There is no official "rule" (as far as I know) that says you need to speak German to apply for positions however, I think it is very unlikely that you will get any positive feedback.... sorry for the bad news. What you may be able to get is an unpaid observership or internship. This might not be a bad idea because you will get some exposure to the system and likely learn German quicker.

Good luck!

p.s.- residency positions are always paid but, as was mentioned already, it can take a long time to get your "Facharzt"...
 

rox

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Thanks for the reply. So can you give us an input about the application process? Do I have to apply to each program separately? is an interview needed?
 

mmmiles

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An observership/internship position should not be a problem to get if you are currently a medical student. In Germany they are called "Famulatur" and generally last about 4 weeks (I am sure you can do more or less if you want). You apply to the hospital or Department directly... You can either contact one of the Dr's in the Department that you would like to go to (Oberarzt or Chefarzt) or the hospital administration and they will direct you.

How much you will be allowed to do on the ward will depend on the Dr's you are working with and your performance. In the beginning you may only get to observe (if your German is not proficient) but once your German is better you will likely get to do a lot.

I think most hospitals will have no problem taking you- after all you will not be getting paid.
 

rox

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Thanks a lot on the info. I was actually referring to residency application rather than electives/observerships.
 

specialop

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I m really interested in getting into residency program in Germany ..i have graduated from Pakistan .Can any one guide me through it ?

thank u.
 

slight365

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Speak German. That's always step #1. You won't be considered unless you speak German (though Turkish is a plus for those willing to learn it).

The only possible exception I can imagine is if you find a position in Freibourg and you know how to speak French, which is officially Germany's only bilingual city, but that's a longshot, and you still need German.

If one speaks Turkish and German, that's a huge plus in Berlin.
 

mmmiles

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I agree that you really need to be proficient in German before you apply. I don't want to discourage you, I just think you would be wasting your time (the only exception I can think of would be a pure research position)... Although most Dr's in Germany can speak English, all daily communication and paperwork is in German. In addition, many patients and other hospital workers can't speak English.

There is no central application process- you apply directly to the hospital/department where you want to work (some hospitals advertise when the are looking for Assistenzaerzte) and, if they are interested, there would certainly be an interview and possibly a trial work day . If you have done a rotation/ internship at that clinic it certainly increases your chances of getting a position.

If a place is willing to hire you, you can go about getting a working license.... this is fairly complicated and done on an individual basis if you are not from the EU (check my old posts for more info).
 

specialop

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thank u for information.I can speak german and write it as well.
every other web sites i checked they have advised to contact the respective hospitals.so i want to know if i join there i become a resident or i can join only as a researcher.
 

slight365

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If you have German skills, I recommend taking a Goethe Institute diagnostic to confirm what level you're on (generally free), then take the Zertifikat Deutsch Pruefung to ease things along.
 

rox

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The only possible exception I can imagine is if you find a position in Freibourg and you know how to speak French, which is officially Germany's only bilingual city, but that's a longshot, and you still need German.

First time to know that. I have a diploma in French language and I just started learning German. I have always though of French as a difficult language...but German now beats it. It is probably as difficult as Arabic.

Thanks everybody for the helpful input. Vielen Dank!
 
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mmmiles

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specialop,

If you can speak and write German then it is, in general, possible to get a clinical residency in Germany (not just research).

It is not really possible to say what your chances would be of getting hired because it depends on too many individual factors (what hospital, what field, medical degree equivalency, language skills etc...). Obtaining a working permit (which includes establishing degree equivalency and language skills) varies from state to state and is always determined on an individual basis. This is done after you have a job offer from a hospital.

Make sure you inform yourself about the German residency system first. I really enjoyed working in Germany but the programs have their shortcomings. As was already mentioned, the pay is low compared to other countries, you often have to change hospitals multiple times and it can take a long time to finish.
 

rox

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you often have to change hospitals multiple times and it can take a long time to finish.

From the few people I talked to, nobody mentioned that. I even know someone whose job offer included residency plus fellowship. What you mentioned is well-known about Australia, but it's the first time I hear that about Germany.
 

slight365

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First time to know that. I have a diploma in French language and I just started learning German. I have always though of French as a difficult language...but German now beats it. It is probably as difficult as Arabic.

Thanks everybody for the helpful input. Velen Dank!
...but don't get me wrong; German is still the primary language for the area, although I'm sure French would be a big plus. If one knows French, and they are an EU citizen, or have work rights, they can also just jump across the border to France, should a better job show up, but still live in Germany, for example.
 

rox

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Yeah, of course I got you right..German is needed always.

BTW, is there a way to become a citizen other than marrying a citizen? any sort of immigration? Thanks.
 

mmmiles

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rox,

It really depends on what area you are in and what hospital you work at. If you are in a large university hospital you probably can do everything in one place. The problem is if you get a position at a small or specialized clinic. During residency you have a catalog of procedures etc. that you need to fill before you can do your board exam and you likely have personal goals you want to attain during residency. Sometimes it is just not possible (or would take to long) to get it all done in one place.

Often the residency programs in Germany are not well structured with regards to preparing you for the boards... even in large clinics you can have the problem that there is not enough rotation between subfields.

There are some very good programs and it is possible to get a good education and skill set at both large and small clinics in a reasonable amount of time. It is just important that you inform yourself about the programs beforehand and realize that it can be a problem.
 

rox

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Thanks for the info. So is there an estimation for how long it takes to become a radiologist or a dermatologist? I know it varies as you explained previously but I was hoping for an average.
 

rox

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On a separate note, what difficulties do non-EU citizens face? Are they less favorably considered by programs? Any difficulties with visa, license or payment?
 

specialop

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thank you mmiles for the information .
now i ve cleared one thing(about the language) now i m proceeding on another by knowing the GERMAN residency system.
 

sereene

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Hello learned friends,

I have gone through the previous posts which discussed about language difficulties and poor structured residency programs in Germany.

I wanted to apply for psychiatry residency in Germany. Since many legendary psychiatrists hale from Germany, is it different or better then other faculty residencies? How are my prospects ?

:xf:waiting for an early reply. Thank u
 

slight365

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It's interesting how people ask for help, the processes, their chances, and comparative situations without even giving simple info like where they come from, or where they were educated, or their native language.

Undertaking such a thing like going to a foreign country like Germany is pretty tough where you're helpless. It takes work and initiative, not waiting for info to get to you.
 

rox

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I guess some people just want to make sure they actually CAN get in before they start investing time, money and initiatives :)
 

slight365

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No way to know if they give no details. Everyone's situation is different and they fit different objective and subjective criteria for the schools. People have to look for themselves, but instead they invest the time on the internet, which is the path of least resistance. All they have to do is do the work to get themselves into the schools and see what is required in their case, whether for school, residency, or worklife.

None of us can chance a person here, especially with zero background info. That's why I call these people helpless because they want info to go to them magically, rather than seeking out the info like a determined professional in medical studies or profession would.
 

tohfa

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Friends i am taufiq noorani.
I have compledted my medicine in june 2009 and i am searching for some information in germnay for residency.
i have a basic info that i need to have german b2 level, but then how to get a license in germany?
does nay body have any info on this.
abt residency any one can do there as they have might not need the license but i need to have the work and study thing together .
also plz tell abt the medical oncology residency.
is it possible there?
Please reply.
 

khaldun63

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If you do a residency in Germany you will get paid. However the pay isn't great. They have recently decided to increase doctor salaries in Germany with 8% but it's remains a big problem over there at the mo. Also there is a lot of hirarchy...so you should be prepared for a medical culture shock.

Good luck
im interested in doing residency in germany , but i dont know what is the best way to contact hositals by postal mail or emails ,would they take my email to them in serious or i have to send them a postal mail??
is thier any specific applications ??
 

Gigo

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Hi people what level of German should i speak to be able to enroll in residency there? I mean, does anybody know which step on Ghoete Institute should i have done?
 

slight365

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im interested in doing residency in germany , but i dont know what is the best way to contact hositals by postal mail or emails ,would they take my email to them in serious or i have to send them a postal mail??
is thier any specific applications ??
Do you speak German?
 

superoxide

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Hi there,

I'm interested in applying for a position as "assistenzarzt" in Germany. I have already passed the B2 level exam of the Goethe Institut.

My question is since I've graduated from a non-EU school, I will have to do something called "anpassungsjahr". I believe it is like a probationary period. Does one get paid during the anpassungsjahr or do you work for free?

If anyone has any information about this, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.
 
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slight365

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Search the keywords in google. I found articles. The reason I tell you this is because if you can't read the articles on it, then your german isn't good enough for practice.

...and you also didn't mention what school/where you graduated from, so no one can tell you anything specifically, since there are MANY conditions.
 

slight365

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Search the keywords in google. I found articles. The reason I tell you this is because if you can't read the articles on it, then your german isn't good enough for practice.

...and you also didn't mention what school/where you graduated from, so no one can tell you anything specifically, since there are MANY conditions.
 

slight365

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Search the keywords in google. I found articles. The reason I tell you this is because if you can't read the articles on it, then your german isn't good enough for practice.

...and you also didn't mention what school/where you graduated from, so no one can tell you anything specifically, since there are MANY conditions.
 

Animor

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Hello everybody!

I really thank all of you who gave usefull informations. But I have a question for which I didn't find an answer. The question is: After starting a residency programm in Germany in internal medicine or general surgery, can you switch after some years in dermatology or ENT surgery? Is it something possible to be done?

Thank you!
 

ClowReeD

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Hi im a medical graduate from one of the university in china. me my self in indonesia citizen. but i enrolled my self in a international program and just recently got my MBBS degree.. im wondering if its possible for a fresh graduate like me to do residency in germany? im interested in anesthesia. as for my german im taking a intensive course in goethe-institute now and later i wish to continue learning german in deutschland (i have family already a german citizen) cos i heard that you need b2 if u wanna take residency in german??.. and how about the competitivenes of anesthesia residency in germany? is it also one of favorite major? and how about the outlook for anesthesiologist job in germany now? are there a lot of anesthesiologist or is it high in demand?... thanks alot for your explanation and kind reply...
 

thehopefuldoc

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Hi! I'm a current med student in India and I was just curious about doing residency in Germany. What are the requirements? I know we need to know the language, but do you have to be really proficient? (like do you have to know medical terms?). Here we have 5 and 1/2 years of med school...what do u have to do get residency in germany? please respond...i'm just seeing whether i have options in Europe other than the UK and Ireland. thank you! sorry if these questions sound a little...well stupid :p
 

lyolick

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I am a citizen of Romania (EU country) and a medical student in my last year at State Medical and Pharmaceutical University “Nicolae Testemitanu” in Chisinau, The Republic of Moldova (non EU country). I would like to continue my education (medical residency) in Germany. I would appreciate any information (if it is possible, what is the procedure, the necessary papers, where should I apply, where should I search for more information etc.). I am fluent in English, Russian and Romanian and I started to study German.
 

plasthir79

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If you do a residency in Germany you will get paid. However the pay isn't great. They have recently decided to increase doctor salaries in Germany with 8% but it's remains a big problem over there at the mo. Also there is a lot of hirarchy...so you should be prepared for a medical culture shock.

Good luck
I dont think that u will be paid...foreign residents are not paid...i have a clinic where they would like to accept me as a resident but the problem i cant find funding for it....to pay for it is expensive...so how one can get the residency with payment whatever it is which would be at least enough for living...thanks for information...
 

nicotheone

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ok... take it from a german med student:

if you do a residency in germany you WILL get paid! as a resident "assistenzarzt" you are an employee of te hospital you work at and you receive a salary. you get paid according to the german pay scale for doctors and even tho the salary may not be the best it is still good enough to not live on the streets and starve!

About the needed German skills: If you want to start a residency in germany you should know basic german: you should be able to take a patient history and to talk to your co-workers and understand what they say. nobody cares if you have an accent or if you mess up your grammar!
we have enough doctors here who don't speak perfect german and who still get along great.
it's probably a good advice to learn some "medical vocabulary" as this is what you need to understand. but most of that stuff is very very similar in english (bronchoscopy /Brochoskopie... any trouble with that?).

of course you need to have graduated from medical school to start a residency here but you all know that... and you will probably be accepted for a residency here in no time because germany is in a current lack of doctors and there are holes to fill!

i hope i could answer some questions.
 

xestance

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Dear nicotheone,

How are you?
I was searching and i found your post so helpful. I only have some few things hope you help me in.
1- ( opthalmology- cardiothoracic surgery- cardiology- neurosurgery) are those specialities so competitive in germany that foreign medical students may not apply for.
2- Must i marry a German resident to get the permenant work there?
3- How much time as average required for finishing the residency and start working there as i intend to work there all my life.

My best regards,
M.Elkazaz
 

starstellar

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hi all, i am med student from indonesia and looking forward to do obgyn residency in germany. is there any possibility for foreigners to do residency in that specialty? are there any recommendation or rank that list the hospitals regarding to this specialty? thanks a lot for any help from you all. :):)
 

lasi

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hi guys am from ethiopea .i have done my medical degree there 2 years back.now am in germany for few month .how can i apply for residency and what do i need for that?
like is there an internship programm i need to do, if so how do i get that? and do I've to pay for that?
and also my residence permit ends on Feb. can i extend that based on my application for residency?
please i need to act fast so any info would be so helpful.
 
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