Residency in Ireland

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Rooseleer

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Hello,

I'm a Belgian medical student (EU) graduating this year as a master in medicine. I've been accepted in the Belgian residency programme of psychiatry, but I'm considering moving to Ireland. I don't know, however, whether the residencies in Ireland are controlled by the universities or by the hospitals themself. If I were to consider a residency in Ireland, should I contact the faculties of medicine of the various universities or should I contact the psychiatric hospitals themselves?

Thx.

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Psych training in Ireland is divided into two parts - Basic and Specialist, each being ~ 3 years and require another interview for Specialist training to get the CCST/CCT.

I would definitely definitely reconsider your ambition to do this. Basic Specialist Training is still accredited to sit the MRCPsych (training up until 3 years ago was run as part of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in London), but this will expire soon (next 2-5 years). The new College of Psychiatry of Ireland has been dragging it heels on developing a proper curriculum and doesn't appear to be doing anything except sticking it's head in the sand and hoping the problem (of having to actually properly train psychiatrists) goes away.

Training in Higher Specialist Training (which is very competitive and is a requirement to get CCT) is virtually non-existent, lasts 3 years and will see you placed in rural and pretty poorly equipped clinics. It is not professionally run and the trainers, some of whom are excellent, know that it is also Not Getting Better Any Time Soon.

Now, on the side there are some more problems:
1. Medical Council: the new medical council system for registration is quite possibly the most ******ed system ever invented. They basically introduced a new system to require trainees to be on a specific "Trainee Reigster" since last year. This means that trainees will only be allowed work in the service that they are officially training in. That means no moonlighting, no locums, no using your e.g., 4 years A/E experience of GP experience to work on a Saturday. It's basically there to limit doctors. It was the wet dream of Mary Harney, Health Minister, who has pretty much done everythign in the past 10 years to destroy the professional standards of Irish medicine.

2. The HSE: the HSE has decided that instead of continuing the training grant (the one good thing of this was that you got around €2k every 6 months and could use it as you liked for courses). For psych this was great, but for surgeons, the training bodies simply charged trainees the entire amount just to be "on" the training scheme. The HSe has decided that from I think July this year or else Jan 1st 2011 they will provide the training instead. This means no proper courses on psychotherapy, psychopharm and a path to very very very low standards.

3. Salaries: just in case you are looking at the big salary numbers, ignore it. They don't pay them. New consultants will never see those €250k salaries thrown around in the press, it is 5k/month net, which is what you would get in Germany or elsewhere in the EU. Anything you make over €30k will be taxed and levied up to ~ 60% (Income tax 42% + Pension Levy 8.5% + PRSI 6.5% + Income Levies 3-4%). €100k/year salary here now gets you around €45k net. Given the cost of living and low quality of life, it's not worth it. You couldn't pay me a million euros a year to work in most places in Ireland now.

If you want training, aim to get on one of the high ranking UK schemes like whatever is left of the SLAM scheme, Guys/Thomas', etc., . If you don't get a training post in St. Patrick's University Hospital scheme or St. John of God Hospital in ireland, you are basically wasting your time.

The result of all these changes, is that Irish trainees will have no accreditation with the UK and will have to do 6-7 years training before having any psychiatric qualification. It reduces mobility and locks people in, which of course is exactly what the government and HSE want.

DO NOT DO THIS. Most people here, if they can, are heading to UK, Aus/NZ or Canada.
 
Thanks for the information, though I must say it's not very good news. Especially since we've got a very good psychiatry education program here in Belgium: with numerous posts in university psychiatric hospitals, and very good training (both in psychiatry itself as in psychotherapy). The Belgian program even allows me to perform one of my residentyears in London. So perhaps it would be better to obtain my consultant degree here in Belgium (it's accepted throughout the EU) and to postpone my relocation plans to Ireland. I'm scheduled to become a consultant in 2015...

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the information, though I must say it's not very good news. Especially since we've got a very good psychiatry education program here in Belgium: with numerous posts in university psychiatric hospitals, and very good training (both in psychiatry itself as in psychotherapy). The Belgian program even allows me to perform one of my residentyears in London. So perhaps it would be better to obtain my consultant degree here in Belgium (it's accepted throughout the EU) and to postpone my relocation plans to Ireland. I'm scheduled to become a consultant in 2015...

Thanks again.

Don't get me wrong though, you will get great experience here in the University hospitals. However, once you are past the basic stage of MRCPsych +/- Research/Lecturing, the final leg of Higher training is much more peripheral and poorly organised - the cushy university hospital setting is replaced with rural clinics, etc., . Again good experience, but life is short.

All speciality degrees are recognised throughout the EU according the European Board of Medical Specialists. The Irish medical council has a list of each countries speciality qualifcation - all are interchangable now between countries. As you have obviously only just started - 5 more years - you might consider the ST4-6 in the UK. The advantage of the UK/Ireland scheme is that you get the MRCPsych as a "minimum" psych degree.
 
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