Residents sleeping with attendings

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yobabydoc

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What is the consensus on this. It seems like in the day of Grey's Anatomy that people in the general public think this is what happens routinely in residency. How many of you have this occurring in your program and what are your thoughts on this kind of relationship?[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

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Yes have seen residents dating attendings...don't go in their bedrooms so don't really know who is sleeping with who.
One of the current chief residents is marrying one of the younger attendings, so assume they were dating at least last year, when she was a resident.
Male chief resident a couple of years ago was dating a med student seriously...he had been divorced a couple of years prior. I personally don't care what other people do, but I think it's silly to have it in the house staff manual that you can't date anyone not on your level of training, and then not enforce the rule, or selectively enforce it.

I personally think that residents dating med students is a bigger issue...or residents sleeping w/med students in a nonserious way. One of the male residents was caught in a call room w/female MSIII a couple of years ago, which I think is poor form...don't know if it was "his" team's med student, which would be worse than if she wasn't, IMHO.

At any rate, anyone who think's Grey's Anatomy is realistic has no clue what medicine is really like. Even more unrealistic than all the interns sleeping w/attendings on that show is the interns doing neurosurgery!!!
 
That show has some serious distance from reality. Once a guy caused a patient to have a cerebral pontine myelinolysis in one scene, and in the next, he was having sex with the nurse. What an absurd!
I think this kind of relationship is very complicated, bound to have some drama. It's difficult for some people to separate the admiration for the professional from a male-female type of attraction. I've been there. Very complicated.
 
but I think it's silly to have it in the house staff manual that you can't date anyone not on your level of training, and then not enforce the rule, or selectively enforce it.

Speaking as a former lawyer, I have to say that it's not silly to have it in the manual -- it's negligent not to advise clients to do this because this kind of relationship is a set-up for an indefensible sexual harassment lawsuit. But it is silly for hospitals not to enforce the rule. It puts them at risk.

Not that I haven't known couples who met under this kind of circumstance and it worked out, but a hospital that doesn't actively try to discourage this is really opening itself up to liability and any hospital lawyer would advise hospitals to take a hard line on this issue.
 
Is it really legal to put this in your manual? Can I tell my residents that they can't date each other? or students? What about administrators? Or unit secretaries?

I totally understand how bad situations like this can be, and strongly discourage it, but can I prevent it? Or fire someone because they do it?

What if I match a couple that are separated by a year?

It would seem that I could say:
1. You can't evaluate anyone that you have a personal relationship with. Thus, I should never evaluate my own child, or a good friend, etc.
2. Having sex while on duty is not allowed, regardless.

Beyond that, how much can I intrude into my residents' personal lives?
 
I think it is so inappropriate to have an attending sleeping with an intern/resident. It is unprofessional for a number of reasons and then again somewhat predatory. it is different if it is a unit clerk and attending, the issue has lies around who you report to and who evaluates you...attendings supervise and evaluate residents, not quite the same relationship as unit lerk and an attending or a resident for that matter. It just reeks stinky to me.
 
I think it is so inappropriate to have an attending sleeping with an intern/resident. It is unprofessional for a number of reasons and then again somewhat predatory. it is different if it is a unit clerk and attending, the issue has lies around who you report to and who evaluates you...attendings supervise and evaluate residents, not quite the same relationship as unit lerk and an attending or a resident for that matter. It just reeks stinky to me.

One senior resident I knew was attracted to this MSIII. But later he found out that he slept with her older sister who was also a medical student when he was an intern. I also have a close friend who is an attending who recently marry a resident after a year of dating...Given huge amount of time we spent in the hospital it is not surprising that we find the comforts in the arms of those who are in the similar situation. Of course I am not make any excuses. I agreed with the statement with above. However, we (doctors) are human being with needs and sometimes it is much easier to relate to others who are in similar situation. Now...sleeping with patient is plain wrong most of time...:D
 
Sleeping with a patient is clearly wrong in ALL circumstances that I can think of, and is something that you can lose your medical license over (which would end your career).

Sleeping with and/or dating someone at work is a more complex situation. I agree that in general I disagree with a resident dating an attending, or with a resident dating a med student whom he/she has anything to do with evaluating. But sometimes a resident/intern meets a med student outside the hospital in some social context. Are we to believe that all such dating is wrong? I would say no. I also think in the case of the attending and the resident I spoke of above, the attending is not predatory at all...this attending is quite young and an excellent person and excellent doctor...not some huge age difference between the attending and the resident. I must admit I was surprised to find out these two were dating, and now getting married...and I can't see how they could have met except in the hospital. The resident is a medicine resident and the faculty is cardiology, so I think it's problematic in the sense that he could have been evaluating her at some point..though I don't know for certain that she ever rotated on his service. I guess as a woman I would fear career repercussions (i.e. being known as the person who "slept her way to the top" even if it isn't true) if I ever dated an attending at any hospital where I was training.

I wonder how exactly a hospital would "enforce" their rules against dating trainees? They would probably have to fire a lot of people if they decided to get rid of everyone who dates trainees. But I actually do think they should discourage residents from dating med students they met at work and/or supervise, and the same with attendings. There are enough fish in the sea that I really don't think we need to go there...but in the end people are going to do what they want unless there are SERIOUS repercussions to doing otherwise.
 
you would think they would encourage mating as this would keep numbers of the group high.
 
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I think that there's a difference between an attending who supervises you directly and who is an attending at the hospital that you work with but doesn't supervise you directly.

For example, I'm an ob resident - currently 4th year. As you spend time at a hospital, you get to know certain services who you spend a great deal of time with. And for example, I graduated medical school with people who are now attendings. Friendships may develop as residents and then one may graduate and become an "attending" - some of my closest hospital friends are attendings of anesthesia - all of which I was a resident with at one point.

And yes, I did date an anesthesia attending last year. He was a resident with me and then stayed on for a faculty position. Other than a hug in the holding area of the OR when I needed it and maybe a late night ice cream snack on call, our in-hospital relationship was strictly professional.
 
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