RESOURCE For Those Applied/ying Co/Cl. Psy

[Sharewithme]

Hi,

This isn't an advertisement. I created a support group in 2017 (and have been learning/improving the quality since then) for people who applied to doctoral clinical or counseling psychology programs and had been rejected. The purpose of the group was to offer support among each other.

The group's purpose now is (and was) not just about getting over the grief of rejection and loss of graduate school! It's about getting back in the game. Not to leave newbies out, the group was/is also welcome to anyone interested in applying for the first time to doctoral clinical or counseling psychology programs. For those of us who are applying again or for the first time for the Fall Term 2019 admissions cycle to APA accredited programs, we've already sent in applications. I have posted material on the interview, too. Also, we are still "applying ourselves" even if our paper/online applications have already been submitted. Let's keep at it. We can converse on this thread about the past, present, or (for those looking to get a head start) future with all things graduate applications/interviews/admissions. I'm now interested in counseling psych, and I think the tone of the support group website matches this. Clinical psych folks can get helpful info/support, too, though! Plus, articles by clinical psychologists are on it. The online resource: Peer Support.

~ Sharewithme

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Sharewithme]

UPDATED website, it's under continual revision as my thinking progresses. 1) I made the purpose of the group sound clearer that it's not just for those who've been denied admission, but also for those of us applying now. At this stage: The interview. 2) I updated the section on interviewing in-person: Do I Attend And In-Person? . While attending in-person to an interview is the stereotypical way people think of an applicant's ultimate admissions acceptance, counseling psychology, the field I'm interested in, strongly supports case-by-case decisions, as well.

 

[Sharewithme]

Thanks for the constructive feedback @herewegoagainfolks. I made a note about how the views on the site are my own and linked the rationale for why I named the group grieflosssupport on the main page. The website is a blog, but there are people who are in-person members of a group engaging based on the materials posted, so I consider the group an official group. Rejection/denial from graduate school is a loss. The response to a loss is grief, and grief is more than just an emotional response. I'm glad you are not downtrodden at going at this again. I think your grieving style (if you were rejected once, there was the absence of something tangible, so there was a loss, and the response to a loss is grief) is more instrumental (operational) than intuitive (emotional).

As I've also updated the main page to state, there is a lot of information via links on the right of the website, but we applicants have to get ready to absorb and process large volumes. Reading the headings can assist with this. Also, the sections that are not so clear are probably the positive posts, and they are for anyone needing encouragement as they apply themselves for graduate school.

Dr. Prinstein's article is on the website, too. (The Student Doctor Network does not always have a constructive tone. My website does. That is what makes it unique).

 

[singasongofjoy]

Thanks for the constructive feedback @herewegoagainfolks. I made a note about how the views on the site are my own and linked the rationale for why I named the group grieflosssupport on the main page. The website is a blog, but there are people who are in-person members of a group engaging based on the materials posted, so I consider the group an official group. Rejection/denial from graduate school is a loss. The response to a loss is grief, and grief is more than just an emotional response. I'm glad you are not downtrodden at going at this again. I think your grieving style (if you were rejected once, there was the absence of something tangible, so there was a loss, and the response to a loss is grief) is more instrumental (operational) than intuitive (emotional).

As I've also updated the main page to state, there is a lot of information via links on the right of the website, but we applicants have to get ready to absorb and process large volumes. Reading the headings can assist with this. Also, the sections that are not so clear are probably the positive posts, and they are for anyone needing encouragement as they apply themselves for graduate school.

Dr. Prinstein's article is on the website, too. (The Student Doctor Network does not always have a constructive tone. My website does. That is what makes it unique).

I think I recall this coming up last time you posted about your website (re: grief/loss terminology) though I see you've added some more detail/explanation. Still, it's hard to truly conceptualize it as a loss if you haven't actually obtained a position yet- what are you actually losing? As someone who works with/in groups who have experienced concrete loss (of a loved one, of physical abilities and related sequelae, etc) frankly it reads as borderline offensive to refer to an as-yet-unachieved aspiration as loss/grief. In fact, a similar conversation came up in another online group I'm in. In short, it's sort of like people throwing around the phrase "oh I'm so OCD" or "I'm so ADHD/Aspie/whatever, I do xyz" rather flippantly when they don't have the diagnoses. Folks who have experience with these things find it frustrating/isolating/etc. I think disappointment is more accurate for your group, and there can be behaviors or physical symptoms (difficulty sleeping, etc) related to disappointment (as there are related to any emotion).

ETA- I see there are advertisements on your site now- I received a nice cartoon of someone shaking their flabby belly stating "Carbs are not the problem." (Lolllllll I know.... it's probably the cheese, and the baby I had a few months ago! ha. ) but wanted to point out the advertisements really stand out and are detracting because they are large in comparison to the amount of other info on that first page, and the lack of pictures/illustrations on your page so it really draws your visual attention away from the content. If you're looking for overall feeback.

 

[WisNeuro]

Are we going to essentially re-hash the old thread and all of the major conceptual issues, or can we just merge this with the other thread?

 

[Sharewithme]

I think I recall this coming up last time you posted about your website (re: grief/loss terminology) though I see you've added some more detail/explanation. Still, it's hard to truly conceptualize it as a loss if you haven't actually obtained a position yet- what are you actually losing? As someone who works with/in groups who have experienced concrete loss (of a loved one, of physical abilities and related sequelae, etc) frankly it reads as borderline offensive to refer to an as-yet-unachieved aspiration as loss/grief. In fact, a similar conversation came up in another online group I'm in. In short, it's sort of like people throwing around the phrase "oh I'm so OCD" or "I'm so ADHD/Aspie/whatever, I do xyz" rather flippantly when they don't have the diagnoses. Folks who have experience with these things find it frustrating/isolating/etc. I think disappointment is more accurate for your group, and there can be behaviors or physical symptoms (difficulty sleeping, etc) related to disappointment (as there are related to any emotion).

ETA- I see there are advertisements on your site now- I received a nice cartoon of someone shaking their flabby belly stating "Carbs are not the problem." (Lolllllll I know.... it's probably the cheese, and the baby I had a few months ago! ha. ) but wanted to point out the advertisements really stand out and are detracting because they are large in comparison to the amount of other info on that first page, and the lack of pictures/illustrations on your page so it really draws your visual attention away from the content. If you're looking for overall feeback.

I didn't mean to offend you. I think you have every right to have the perspective and feelings that you do. I wasn't throwing the term around flippantly. The loss is of opportunity, of something you've been preparing for for months/years, immediate plans (rather than go to graduate school you may need to fulfill your time otherwise), and for some this is more than disappointing.

I can see if adding visuals to the website gives it a different look/layout. Unfortunately there's nothing I can do about the ads. None of the ads are intentional!

 

[Sharewithme]

Are we going to essentially re-hash the old thread and all of the major conceptual issues, or can we just merge this with the other thread?

Take what material is useful to you and move on.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Oh. This again. I'm sure it will be more useful this time..



My biggest gripe is your language usage. Your language is non-precise and it alludes to the impression that you're providing clinical services. Peer support is a term used in relation to a certain type of provider. In conjunction with your references to grief (which, as others have noted, is utter non-sense from a conceptual or professional standpoint, despite it making sense to you) and your LinkedIn page which describes you as "co-running a Graduate School Admissions Peer Support Group", this whole thing could easily give the very distinct impression that you are doing something that you are not doing.

Also, you can get rid of the ads by paying money. Don't say there "isn't" a way. There is. My lab website and that of many of my colleagues are on wordpress as well.

There there is the whole issue with whether or not your advice is as useful as that provided by others (here, in the Insider's Guide, on other forum such as Dr. Mitch, etc.).

Not that any of this is new... but I'll just remind you of the same issues that were brought up before in this discussion still being issues.

 

[MAClinician]

Take what material is useful to you and move on.

A licensed clinical neuropsychologist who is actively practicing for almost a decade (?) does not need to take anything from your blog. WisNeuro was accepted and completed his program and training. The first time you shared your blog and asked for feedback, several posters (psychologists, students, and faculty and others with valuable experience) provided you with respectful comments and points to consider. It is great that you want to support fellow applicants during this process. Please think carefully about the feedback you received previously and whether this project is truly going to assist you in reaching your professional goals.

If I were a faculty member at a program you applied to, and came across this blog/website/resource, I would have some other concerns in addition to the previous debate on whether grad school rejection could be considered “grief/loss”. Grammar, writing style, organization of content, and identified research/clinical interests are all areas that could benefit from revision and critical reviews. If you haven’t already shared this with a faculty mentor from your undergraduate program, it might be worth considering to see perspectives of someone who knows you well and can support you. Good luck in this application cycle.

 

[MCParent]

Take what material is useful to you and move on.

(The Student Doctor Network does not always have a constructive tone. My website does. That is what makes it unique).

?????

 

[singasongofjoy]

I didn't mean to offend you. I think you have every right to have the perspective and feelings that you do. I wasn't throwing the term around flippantly. The loss is of opportunity, of something you've been preparing for for months/years, immediate plans (rather than go to graduate school you may need to fulfill your time otherwise), and for some this is more than disappointing.

I can see if adding visuals to the website gives it a different look/layout. Unfortunately there's nothing I can do about the ads. None of the ads are intentional!

Oh, I'm not offended. Just trying to provide a broader perspective of what your potential diverse audience might think. Best of luck with admissions process this round!

 

[PsyDuck90]

First year non-traditional route clinical student here, so the application process is still very fresh in my mind (and currently very real as I am preparing apps for my 1st external practicum placement). I have a few points that I hope you view as constructive, as that is their intention.

I am not going to repeat what other commenters have stated, but I do echo many of the same sentiments. A few things did jump out at me while perusing through your page.

Initially, there are a few things that seem to be more focused on your particular research/clinical/etc. interests rather than the application/admissions process, such as a page on "Emotion-Focused Therapy." This is just 1 example of a few. If you want to have a website dedicated to grad school admissions, the content should be curated to reflect that. Instead, it kind of reads more as a "get into grad school plus other stuff I'm interested in" blog. This, to me, lessens the credibility of the website because it gives the impression of lack of focus.

Also, you want to make sure whatever you put is actually correct information. For instance, on a page titled "Getting Rejected/Getting Over Rejection," you have a paragraph stating
"If you did not receive an invite for a pre-doctoral admissions interview, you may probably safely assume this email means you were not accepted. There are cases of people not being invited for an interview yet still being admitted into a doctoral psychology program. I’m more familiar with this happening among programs outside of APA accredited ones, such as neuropsychology or I/O psychology. Whether or not you interviewed, you may have a sense of hope..."
Neuropsychology is a subset of clinical psychology and very much under the auspices of APA accreditation (of course, there may be programs out there that bill themselves as neuropsych without APA accreditation, but that's a different topic). If you are going to put something out there, especially connected to your real identity, you need to fact-check everything and make sure it's accurate.

Lastly, I know I said I would not repeat concerns that have already been mentioned, but I have 1 comment. This is not a peer-support group. This is a blog with a connection to a peer Facebook group. One of the primary requirements for something to be considered a support group is that there is some sort of dialogue (whether digital or verbal). There is no ability to comment on a page and no way for an individual to interact directly with the content. If there is no option for two-way or multi-way communication within that direct platform, it really can't be considered a group. This is a blog where you have a collection of your own thoughts mixed with other sources, and it is linked to a group.

 

[Sharewithme]

Thanks for the replies. I'm taking them into consideration. I've made several edits. The way I see it, terminology, whether "grief/loss" or "Peer Support" is subjective, and some people will find this language helpful, and so I'm not changing these on the website.

I wish other applicants good luck!

 

[Sharewithme]

I want to let anyone reading this know that 1) I'm reaching out to clinical psychologists and counseling psychologists who earned their degrees from APA accredited programs, including faculty, who know me for their advice 2) If I were to be admitted to an APA accredited Ph.D. counseling psychology program I'd immediately be back to my typical student self - gratefully taking in valuable knowledge from expert professors I truly admire. I know that these programs are 5-6 years in length, and that I am to listen and follow program guidelines and rules. I want to do this, am eager to learn, prefer structure, and would do this! 3) I'm not a causer of chaos, and I do not and never intended to "overstep my expertise" - thank you psychologist who's been helping me a lot for the phrase that I wasn't aware was a potential concern. 4) I objectively see that I am in a more vulnerable position as a person who does not have a graduate school education than anyone who does. I see now that the problem is I don't know what I don't know may be potentially harmful, so when I try to be helpful it may not be as good as I intended. 5) I think this can be an educational exercise. Because I do not think I am better than anyone else I know that if I had the thoughts to form the support group for applicants that I did, others also have these thoughts. In order to determine how to move forward in our technological age where making websites is common, I think some guidance on the matter would be useful!

 

[Sharewithme]

I spent all weekend so far thinking about advice I've recently been given on how to be a better graduate school applicant, genuinely want to be this way, and I've been updating website posts accordingly. The writing process helps me reflect. Importantly, I'm looking to the experts. In Dr. Joshua Hook's e-book, A Journal of Healing and Growth, he talks about change. Hook (n.d.) instructs us to think about what we need to change about ourselves in order to get what we want. My personal example is listening and asking questions in order to understand rather than making assumptions. At first my rationale was that I like logic, and logically, sometimes my assumptions are correct. However, I see now that whether an assumption is true/false is only one aspect of assumptions. Another key aspect of an assumption is that it is based on what you think you know. I'm grateful a psychologist recently pointed out to me that making assumptions as a graduate school applicant is frowned upon. I've come to realize that this is because by relying on assumptions applicants are dismissing the years worth of knowledge and information based on experience professors have to offer students. Now that I see the error I was making, I'm very open to changing, listening and asking to in order to make sense of concepts, understand others, etc., rather than making assumptions.

 

[mlwg1]

I can tell you have the best of intentions. I also appreciate that you have responded to criticism in a gracious way. That being said, I really think you should let this website go. It’s not a flattering look. Focus on applying to graduate school.

 

[Sharewithme]

I can tell you have the best of intentions. I also appreciate that you have responded to criticism in a gracious way. That being said, I really think you should let this website go. It’s not a flattering look. Focus on applying to graduate school.

Thank you for your kind words. It really means a lot to me.

Just for clarification, by let this go do you mean not bother with additional posts? That was my plan, that there's sufficient material on the site now, and to direct my energies on the graduate schools I've applied for.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I can tell you have the best of intentions. I also appreciate that you have responded to criticism in a gracious way. That being said, I really think you should let this website go. It’s not a flattering look. Focus on applying to graduate school.

Responding graciously and with self-reflection to criticism goes a long way in graduate school and in life.

 

[mlwg1]

Thank you for your kind words. It really means a lot to me.

Just for clarification, by let this go do you mean not bother with additional posts? That was my plan, that there's sufficient material on the site now, and to direct my energies on the graduate schools I've applied for.

You're welcome. I meant that you should consider deleting/deactivating the website. A ton of work is needed to bring it up to par. To be frank, the website in its current state will have a detrimental effect on your applications. Others have pointed out various issues so I'm not going to pile on. I just don't think it's the best use of your time right now.

 

[Justanothergrad]

The advice of deleting the website is the same that I gave you. I think you should strongly consider it.

 

[Sharewithme]

Thank you for the clarification @Justanothergrad and @mlwg1. The website is no more. I understand the reasoning behind my action.

I did have good intentions with the website, but I see that there are much better ways for me to help others. I would love to start learning in an APA accredited Ph.D. counseling psychology program! I hope I may be fortunate enough to be student in an APA accredited Ph.D. counseling psychology program this Fall 2019 term so I can listen to what my professors generously teach, read what countless authors have bountifully given, practice applying the concepts I have deeply studied, research a topic and form questions I may scientifically investigate, and educate others with what I've learned as I continue to learn life-long.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I think it was a really good decision to delete the webpage. As others have said, it took strength to do that. Good luck getting into the program of your dreams!

 

[Sharewithme]

Thank you @super.ego and @Doctor Eliza! This is exactly what I needed to hear. Moving forward