Rethinking Med School Because of Healthcare Reform?

[TakeMe]

Just curious...

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[Lokhtar]

The answer is no. But I do hope, for my medschool spot sake, that people get worked up in a frenzy and rethink .

 

[GoLytely]

These discussions almost always focus on income, but the real shame is in having your actions dictated for you by a government instruction manual (written by liberal congressmen with no medical training).

You'll realize your life sucks the first time you need to order an MRI but uncle sam won't pay you for it, yet not getting one runs the risk of getting you sued (and uncle sam refuses, for some reason, to even consider malpractice reform).

 

[randombetch]

More people should rethink things. One of the reasons health care legislation like this can pass is because people choose to go into medicine blindly.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

More people should rethink things. One of the reasons health care legislation like this can pass is because people choose to go into medicine blindly.

A lot of people go into medicine thinking its a field of love and altruism. The reality is that its not, and its a career. People need to realize that medicine is a dream field we're socialized to believe is highly respected and well compensated. Take away the compensation and you lose about 90% of premeds to other fields which pay nicely and require less learning. I get the feeling that if medicine died, premeds would flood into engineering( second best compensated field).

 

[Cleavername]

A lot of people go into medicine thinking its a field of love and altruism. The reality is that its not, and its a career. People need to realize that medicine is a dream field we're socialized to believe is highly respected and well compensated. Take away the compensation and you lose about 90% of premeds to other fields which pay nicely and require less learning. I get the feeling that if medicine died, premeds would flood into engineering( second best compensated field).

medcine is a business, and it always will be. like almost everything else in the america, and i am not sure if its almost 100% of the times.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Here is food for thought:

The Urban Institute released some interesting reports recently. One made projections of uncompensated care (i.e. work that hospitals and physicians do without getting paid) with and without reform:

In this report the authors estimate that under the health reform bill passed by the Senate, the cost of uncompensated care will fall from $62.1 billion in 2009 to $46.6 billion in 2019. If no health reform is enacted, they project that uncompensated care would rise to between $107 and $141 billion in 2019. Over the six-year period of proposed health reform legislation, 2014–2019, the costs of uncompensated care without health reform would be between $560 and $700 billion. With reform, the cost would be $330 billion under the Senate bill and provide substantive savings to each level of government.

Another modeled changes in insurance with and without reform:

This report assesses the changes in coverage patterns and health care costs that will occur nationally if major reforms are not enacted. The authors find that by 2015, there could be 59.7 million people uninsured. The number could swell to 67.6 million by 2020, up from an estimated 49.4 million in 2010. As premiums nearly double, employees in small firms would see offers of health insurance almost cut in half, dropping from 41 percent of firms offering insurance in 2010 to 23 percent in 2020. Individual spending could jump 34 percent by 2015 and 79 percent by 2020.

Most indications are that Health Care Armageddon has been staved off by reform, not accelerated. If it doesn't work, not to worry! Single payer will be looking pretty attractive at that point.

 

[FlowRate]

A lot of people go into medicine thinking its a field of love and altruism. The reality is that its not, and its a career. People need to realize that medicine is a dream field we're socialized to believe is highly respected and well compensated. Take away the compensation and you lose about 90% of premeds to other fields which pay nicely and require less learning. I get the feeling that if medicine died, premeds would flood into engineering( second best compensated field).

Maybe... I can't see most premeds handling engineering as undergrads.

I've been thinking about the fact that I'll be getting a degree where I start at 65k+ with quick advancement to 85k+ and management track/consulting potential of 130k+++++. I still want to do medicine, in small part because I've invested so much into the premed thing anyway (the major parts include the same reasons most other people like medicine).

 

[NoSurprise]

There are a number of things I don't like about the legislation(Increased taxes on people with good medical coverage... why??? To get them to buy poorer coverage???). Let's hope that we can keep the good things, and eventually weed out the bad ones... We're bred to be optimists, let's work to better things now that they've changed.

Let's work on tort reform(This could arguably save us .5%-2.5% of the healthcare budget)

Let's work on decreasing the administrative overhead. A projected $752 difference in administrative costs were found between Canada and U.S. in 1999(Over 10 years ago! http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/349/8/768)

Perhaps moving PAs and NPs into family medicine with the supervision of a doctor for every 4-5 PAs/NPs? This is being done in many states.

This isn't the end of the road guys... health care reform needs to happen, and we need to make sure that we take care of as many people as we can without considerably decreasing physician lifestyle -- I doubt many patients would want Dr. DownTheStreet-KnowsMySecrets hanging around the same venues, just a thought.

 

[startswithb]

Here is food for thought:

The Urban Institute released some interesting reports recently. One made projections of uncompensated care (i.e. work that hospitals and physicians do without getting paid) with and without reform:



Another modeled changes in insurance with and without reform:



Most indications are that Health Care Armageddon has been staved off by reform, not accelerated. If it doesn't work, not to worry! Single payer will be looking pretty attractive at that point.

My fear with government payer is that...governments are always broke and never pay their bills on time. This would not be the case somehow?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Maybe... I can't see most premeds handling engineering as undergrads.

I've been thinking about the fact that I'll be getting a degree where I start at 65k+ with quick advancement to 85k+ and management track/consulting potential of 130k+++++. I still want to do medicine, in small part because I've invested so much into the premed thing anyway (the major parts include the same reasons most other people like medicine).

Thing is. If you weren't a premed you wouldn't need to so stringent about your gpa outside of maybe a 3.0. As a premed getting a 3.0 = you being screwed over and no medical school. Thats the good thing about so many majors, you don't need to care about your gpa really, I mean only in medicine is a 3.3gpa seen as horrible.

 

[TakeMe]

I really wish tort reform was included in the package. Does anyone know if there is ANY chance of it being added in at this point?

 

[thamsenman]

I really wish tort reform was included in the package. Does anyone know if there is ANY chance of it being added in at this point?

No way. One of the chief supporters of the Democratic Party are trial attorneys.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No way. One of the chief supporters of the Democratic Party are trial attorneys.

And then 14 states sue.

 

[Parts Unknown]

I really wish tort reform was included in the package. Does anyone know if there is ANY chance of it being added in at this point?

What sort of tort reform would you like?

 

[Dr McSexy]

Where's the option for: "It's too late. I've gone too far."

 

[Parts Unknown]

My fear with government payer is that...governments are always broke and never pay their bills on time.

That's a rather broad statement. Could you provide some examples of the Federal government systematically not paying bills on time?

 

[thamsenman]

Where's the option for: "It's too late. I've gone too far."

DrMcSexy, are you going to become a gynecologist?

 

[startswithb]

That's a rather broad statement. Could you provide some examples of the Federal government systematically not paying bills on time?

I like how you left out the part of "being broke."

 

[oaklandguy]

What sort of tort reform would you like?

The kind that will allow me to not have to pay $100k+ a year in malpractice insurance.

 

[thamsenman]

The kind that will allow me to not have to pay $100k+ a year in malpractice insurance.

260kish for ob/gyn in cook county, IL.

 

[FlowRate]

That's a rather broad statement. Could you provide some examples of the Federal government systematically not paying bills on time?

Seriously? How about the national debt? Withheld refund checks?

Thing is. If you weren't a premed you wouldn't need to so stringent about your gpa outside of maybe a 3.0. As a premed getting a 3.0 = you being screwed over and no medical school. Thats the good thing about so many majors, you don't need to care about your gpa really, I mean only in medicine is a 3.3gpa seen as horrible.

Good point.

 

[Dr McSexy]

DrMcSexy, are you going to become a gynecologist?

Only during my off time.

 

[orangeANDgreen]

That's a rather broad statement. Could you provide some examples of the Federal government systematically not paying bills on time?

12+ Trillion dollars of debt...if that's not not paying bills on time I don't what is

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[circulus vitios]

There was a twinge of uncertainty but life in academia is way harder than life in medicine.

 

[thamsenman]

Only during my off time.

 

[oaklandguy]

What I could do with 12 trillion dollars...

 

[FlowRate]

What I could do with 12 trillion dollars...

Buy ~ 1 x 10^9 pounds of twinkies...

 

[Slowpoke]

eh, it would take more than a healthcare bill overhaul to push me away. How about long hours, feeling underpaid and consistently sleep deprived... oh wait...

 

[d1ony5u5]

The bill actually sounds like a step in the right direction. I agree that the details may not be great, but we do need this. I think a lot of people warning against a career in medicine in SDN are doing it taking only selfish motives into account.

This bill may make things more difficult for doctors (if it does), but it is trying to solve a huge societal problem. I am all for it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The bill actually sounds like a step in the right direction. I agree that the details may not be great, but we do need this. I think a lot of people warning against a career in medicine in SDN are doing it taking only selfish motives into account.

This bill may make things more difficult for doctors (if it does), but it is trying to solve a huge societal problem. I am all for it.

Meh for most people here they'd much rather be starting there lives while the medical schools are in school. It can't be helped, that people should care strongly about their future's.

 

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

These discussions almost always focus on income, but the real shame is in having your actions dictated for you by a government instruction manual (written by liberal congressmen with no medical training).

You'll realize your life sucks the first time you need to order an MRI but uncle sam won't pay you for it, yet not getting one runs the risk of getting you sued (and uncle sam refuses, for some reason, to even consider malpractice reform).

It is not Uncle Sam that refuses tort reform (there's no such thing as 'malpractice reform'), it is the republicans who specifically declared war on far reaching reform that would include tort reform. Please get your facts straight...it is this type of irresponsible politicking that causes the issue to disintegrate into a liberal versus conservative ideology rather than a constructive attempt at the future of healthy communities, and better American lives. I am not a democrat/republican which is why I find this democrat vs republican argument counter-productive...what about the rest of us that have no dog in the fight, do our opinions count? We need to get healthcare straightened out irrespective of who gets its done - but it is self-defeating to see grown men/women acting like puerile brats just to defend a political position, and posture for votes in the name of conservatism!! I used to argue for the might of collective American intelligence, but I have since resigned myself to the fact that contagious ignorance, arrogant stupidity, and blind parochialism seem to set the tone for very important things in our collective conversation as a nation.

And just for the record....you realize your life sucks the first time YOU need an MRI...what indignantion to be thinking about getting paid when your patient is the one facing grave circumstances!!! Really??!!

 

[Parts Unknown]

12+ Trillion dollars of debt...if that's not not paying bills on time I don't what ishttp://www.usdebtclock.org/

Having debt is not the same as missing payments. I have 150K in education debt, but I pay my bills on time. The United States has reliably serviced its debt every year. US Treasury Bills are considered one of the safest investments in the world.

Like it or not, single payer has some advantages.

 

[Parts Unknown]

The kind that will allow me to not have to pay $100k+ a year in malpractice insurance.

Could you be a little more specific?

 

[GoLytely]

And just for the record....you realize your life sucks the first time YOU need an MRI...what indignantion to be thinking about getting paid when your patient is the one facing grave circumstances!!! Really??!!

It's just a matter of practicality. Would you be able to spend $1,000 per MRI for every patient without being reimbursed? You'd go out of business, at which point you wouldn't be able to help anyone.

 

[oaklandguy]

Could you be a little more specific?

Do I have to be?

Tort reform as in laws restricting what doctors can be sued for and also change in how many mandatory procedures doctors have to run in order not to get sued... although realistically the new healthcare bill will do the opposite of this.

Basically any way to lower the cost of malpractice insurance.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Do I have to be?

Tort reform as in laws restricting what doctors can be sued for and also change in how many mandatory procedures doctors have to run in order not to get sued... although realistically the new healthcare bill will due the opposite of this.

Basically any way to lower the cost of malpractice insurance.

you're about to get your ass handed to you by the fellow...

 

[oaklandguy]

you're about to get your ass handed to you by the fellow...

Usually people say this in times of physical altercation. If that were the case I highly doubt that either of you would be capable of such a feat. Since we are on the internet I do not care for such battles that much. If need be, I'll pull out Howard Dean admitting that the Dems are scared of Trial Lawyers.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

fighting 19 year old boys is not my thing big guy.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Do I have to be?

Yes, I would like to know exactly how you envision Federal law usurping State tort laws.

 

[tncekm]

These discussions almost always focus on income, but the real shame is in having your actions dictated for you by a government instruction manual (written by liberal congressmen with no medical training).

Bingo

But, the people opposing it over income are highlighting the reason our system is tanking. Everyone in America sees wealth and says, "what about my slice of the pie?" Everybody thinks about themselves and doesn't worry about the broader impact of making an increasingly large portion of our population entirely dependent on the government in all aspects of life.

 

[oaklandguy]

Yes, I would like to know exactly how you envision Federal law usurping State tort laws.

Well one thing that could happen is a cap on the awards of damages to all medical related suits.

I just think medical malpractice tort costs should be a lot lower than 30.4 billion which is the number for 2007. I think that is a little bit ridiculous. I can't tell you exactly how to fix it and if I could I would probably be waiting till I was 35, so I could run for congress rather than be pre-med.

fighting 19 year old boys is not my thing big guy.

I imagine you're a lover, not a fighter, towards 19 year old boys.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

damn son what a comeback. that stings. why don't you beat your chest some more and then tell us again how mature you are..

 

[randombetch]

A lot of people go into medicine thinking its a field of love and altruism. The reality is that its not, and its a career. People need to realize that medicine is a dream field we're socialized to believe is highly respected and well compensated. Take away the compensation and you lose about 90% of premeds to other fields which pay nicely and require less learning. I get the feeling that if medicine died, premeds would flood into engineering( second best compensated field).

Wait, you're saying medicine is the best compensated field?

Investment banking and consulting FTW. Big law FTW. (I would argue that the smartest pre-meds are very capable of getting ibanking and big law jobs)

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i would argue even your average premed is very capable of ibank and big law

 

[Lokhtar]

My fear with government payer is that...governments are always broke and never pay their bills on time. This would not be the case somehow?

Well one thing that could happen is a cap on the awards of damages to all medical related suits.

I just think medical malpractice tort costs should be a lot lower than 30.4 billion which is the number for 2007. I think that is a little bit ridiculous. I can't tell you exactly how to fix it and if I could I would probably be waiting till I was 35, so I could run for congress rather than be pre-med.



I imagine you're a lover, not a fighter, towards 19 year old boys.

Wow, what an insult. Calling someone gay. Going to accuse someone of being a heretic witch now?

 

[oaklandguy]

i would argue even your average premed is very capable of ibank and big law

I would argue against it. Knowing that the average MCAT score is a 24, I think the average pre-med is a lot less knowledgeable than we assume. Maybe the average SDN pre-med would be capable of a "poli sci" education.

 

[oaklandguy]

Wow, what an insult. Calling someone gay. Going to accuse someone of being a heretic witch now?

Yes.

 

[oaklandguy]

damn son what a comeback. that stings. why don't you beat your chest some more and then tell us again how mature you are..

Edit: I'm mature.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Wait, you're saying medicine is the best compensated field?

Investment banking and consulting FTW. Big law FTW. (I would argue that the smartest pre-meds are very capable of getting ibanking and big law jobs)

Let me rephrase. The best compensated realistic field which doesn't require that your daddy have his whole country club help you out.
Is your whole class aiming for I-Banking? Without really good connections there isn't a possibility of you getting big. Even in law, even if you went to top 10 unless you have good connections you can't get into a big firm.

Medicine is a realistic goal, if you work hard enough and have a little bit of luck you'll get into medicine. I-banking is 40% connections - 50% luck - 10% skill.
Doctors and engineers are easily the 2 most well compensated fields which can actually be attained by the regular peoples.