Rethinking Med School Because of Healthcare Reform?

[Lokhtar]

i would argue even your average premed is very capable of ibank and big law

Haha, the halls of the ivy league are littered with the bodies of failed i-bankers.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Haha, the halls of the ivy league are littered with the bodies of failed i-bankers.

Because without connections they won't be able to get into a firm. Medicine requires no connections..... well that'd be a lie you need some connections. But you can get a job as long as you have the degree at least. An I-banker needs connections.

 

[oaklandguy]

Haha, the halls of the ivy league are littered with the bodies of failed i-bankers.

He should know.

 

[randombetch]

Haha, the halls of the ivy league are littered with the bodies of failed i-bankers.

Because without connections they won't be able to get into a firm. Medicine requires no connections..... well that'd be a lie you need some connections. But you can get a job as long as you have the degree at least. An I-banker needs connections.

Haha most of my friends have been very successful at getting ibanking jobs. I don't know about other Ivies, but mine's just fine at getting us finance jobs.

And none of them had any connections. I'd say less than 5% of the ibankers from my school got their jobs through family connections or something of that nature. Connections are great, but not necessary if you have a banging resume and know how to talk breezy.

PS: I go to Princeton, which has tons of legacy kids and rich alumni, so if less than 5% of kids here get jobs through connections, that number is likely to be lower at other schools.

But I agree, for "regular peoples" (ie: mediocre students) medicine may be the most highly compensating field.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Haha most of my friends have been very successful at getting ibanking jobs. I don't know about other Ivies, but mine's just fine at getting us finance jobs.

And none of them had any connections. I'd say less than 5% of the ibankers from my school got their jobs through family connections or something of that nature. Connections are great, but not necessary if you have a banging resume and know how to talk breezy.

Alrighty i'll take your word. I'd rather be getting paid 60k a year and work 80 hours a week in the Er then push papers and crunch numbers for 100k.

 

[thamsenman]

Haha most of my friends have been very successful at getting ibanking jobs. I don't know about other Ivies, but mine's just fine at getting us finance jobs.

And none of them had any connections. I'd say less than 5% of the ibankers from my school got their jobs through family connections or something of that nature. Connections are great, but not necessary if you have a banging resume and know how to talk breezy.

Why are my friends at t-5 law schools going into low-paying jobs, nagging to me that they'll never make 100k.

 

[randombetch]

Why are my friends at t-5 law schools going into low-paying jobs, nagging to me that they'll never make 100k.

Because 1) the economy sucks, and 2) they must have been screwing around since half their class is going to a top 250 firm and getting paid well over $100k.

 

[randombetch]

Alrighty i'll take your word. I'd rather be getting paid 60k a year and work 80 hours a week in the Er then push papers and crunch numbers for 100k.

Even if it takes 8 years and $200k in loans more to work 80 hours a week in the ER?

 

[thamsenman]

Because 1) the economy sucks, and 2) they must have been screwing around since half their class is going to a top 250 firm and getting paid well over $100k.

According to what I've heard, you have to secure a summer position as an L2 to land a good big law job ever, and many of my friends so far are unable to do that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Even if it takes 8 years and $200k in loans more to work 80 hours a week in the ER?

I'd rather do that then pencil push and crunch numbers sorry. I'm a socialite, I enjoy social interaction, not interacting with my solar powered calculator.

 

[oaklandguy]

I'd rather do that then pencil push and crunch numbers sorry. I'm a socialite, I enjoy social interaction, not interacting with my solar powered calculator.

I'll be really social in my G5 when I'm making 100k+

Lol, it's easy to say you would rather be a doctor than be a pencil pusher, but the reality is we all need to pay our bills too.

 

[tncekm]

I'll be really social in my G5 when I'm making 100k+

Lol, it's easy to say you would rather be a doctor than be a pencil pusher, but the reality is we all need to pay our bills too.

Yeah, I don't think people realize how little $60k is. I guess a single person can make it work, but try adding another person to that income. Ouch.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'll be really social in my G5 when I'm making 100k+

Lol, it's easy to say you would rather be a doctor than be a pencil pusher, but the reality is we all need to pay our bills too.

Hmm like they say in social psychology. Attitude =/= behavior. Lol However in this case i'd need a behavior to influence my attitude to make a opinion. I say this more as a jest to point out how little interest I have in I-banking. But yah haha, I just don't think I want to be in banking sorry. Just not my interests at all. Give me a choice between criminology, medicine and regular psychology and then it'd be a discrepancy.

 

[riverjib]

The answer is no. But I do hope, for my medschool spot sake, that people get worked up in a frenzy and rethink .

I'm with you. Seriously, I hope that it makes people rethink it if they're not 100% sure about going into medicine. There are plenty of people who are in it largely for the money. I'll admit, I'd rethink medicine if I knew I'd be deeply in debt and making $55,000/year like the average physician does in France (a number I found when researching for a Global Issues class project). From what I learned, physicians in France also pay next to nothing for undergraduate and medical education. I'd be okay with making under $100,000/year if I didn't pay for school, though.

We have no idea what doctors will be making in 10-20 years. All of us are taking a huge risk right now, because we're paying a lot for our education, and we don't know what's going to happen with health care. In ten years, maybe doctors will make much less, but our kids may not have to pay to become physicians. Who knows?

I'm not standing on some pedestal looking down on those who honestly are going into medicine as much for money (and prestige) as they are for the love of medicine. I haven't judged people for their reasons for pursuing the profession...what right do I have to decide what the "right" reasons are?? But I really love medicine, and I suspected that it would be a much larger gamble than it was a few years ago when I went back to school to pursue it. I'm sure I'll complain like everyone else when I'm struggling to pay malpractice and student loans as my salary dwindles, which I'm now convinced that it will...but I won't regret it. I hope that who list salary at the top of their reasons for pursuing medicine will reconsider now.

Honestly, I started working in the field in 2002. Half the surgeons (making great money, but not what they thought they would) tried to convince me that "smart kids" like me should go into another field. Many physicians have been unsatisfied for quite some time, and it's only going to get worse for those who had high expectations for a career in medicine. Money is only one factor--many physicians are dissatisfied because they've lost so much autonomy to faceless corporate entities who are dictating how medicine should be practiced. It's completely unfair, and in addition to the heavy responsibilities physicians already carry, it's going to be up to us to fight uphill battles against insurance companies and politicians.

I'm still undecided about this health care bill. Nobody even knows what it actually includes yet. I've been following it for some time, and I agree with some of what was proposed on a fundamental level, but I disagree with other parts.

 

[SabC]

Thing is. If you weren't a premed you wouldn't need to so stringent about your gpa outside of maybe a 3.0. As a premed getting a 3.0 = you being screwed over and no medical school. Thats the good thing about so many majors, you don't need to care about your gpa really, I mean only in medicine is a 3.3gpa seen as horrible.

"so many majors" don't lead to your being directly responsible for making decisions that can be the life or death of someone else.

 

[tncekm]

I'm with you. Seriously, I hope that it makes people rethink it if they're not 100% sure about going into medicine. There are plenty of people who are in it largely for the money.

Translation: my numbers aren't fantastic, so I hope other people quit.

Here is the reality: it's a great career and most people going into it will love it for many reasons. However, without some additional incentive, it's really hard to convince highly talented people to sacrifice so much of their own lives. It's a huge sacrifice...

 

[GoLytely]

Half the surgeons (making great money, but not what they thought they would) tried to convince me that "smart kids" like me should go into another field .

I've had many surgeons offer me the same advice, but I ultimately chose internal medicine. The problem with the "smart" career options (and they ARE certainly smart, if you're looking at medicine as just another type of job) is that, for virtually all of them, you're forced to give up what LIKELY drove you to medical school in the first place. Radiology, pathology (it's true), anesthesiology, radiation oncology....these are all clearly the best choices if you're looking to have the most laid-back career possible whilst raking in a ton of money. However, how many of us, upon deciding to pursue medicine, envisioned ourselves sitting at a computer looking at images all day, monitoring vitals behind the blue drapes, etc....?

There are simply new realities to face in medicine. It's possible to go into fields which avoid many of them, but it's up to each to decide for himself whether these fields even remotely resemble what they've decided to pursue in the first place. The surgeons to whom you've spoken are probably somewhat embittered, but at the end of the day they still have the satisfaction of doing what they'd really set out to do.

 

[riverjib]

Translation: my numbers aren't fantastic, so I hope other people quit.

Here is the reality: it's a great career and most people going into it will love it for many reasons. However, without some additional incentive, it's really hard to convince highly talented people to sacrifice so much of their own lives. It's a huge sacrifice...

Thanks, but I'm perfectly happy with my 3.892 overall/3.774 sGPA. It would just be nice to work with people who aren't telling their kids and everyone else interested in medicine that it's not worth it, and they should go into something else, just because they're totally dissatisfied with their chosen profession. If you don't think that more physicians are going to be unhappy, you're oblivious.

 

[riverjib]

I've had many surgeons offer me the same advice, but I ultimately chose internal medicine. The problem with the "smart" career options (and they ARE certainly smart, if you're looking at medicine as just another type of job) is that, for virtually all of them, you're forced to give up what LIKELY drove you to medical school in the first place. Radiology, pathology (it's true), anesthesiology, radiation oncology....these are all clearly the best choices if you're looking to have the most laid-back career possible whilst raking in a ton of money. However, how many of us, upon deciding to pursue medicine, envisioned ourselves sitting at a computer looking at images all day, monitoring vitals behind the blue drapes, etc....?

There are simply new realities to face in medicine. It's possible to go into fields which avoid many of them, but it's up to each to decide for himself whether these fields even remotely resemble what they've decided to pursue in the first place. The surgeons to whom you've spoken are probably somewhat embittered, but at the end of the day they still have the satisfaction of doing what they'd really set out to do.

I'm with you. I'm not going into surgery, because it's not the lifestyle I want. I didn't imply that MOST physicians are unhappy with medicine. I only pointed out that many are, for different reasons. I've been admonished by some, and encouraged by others. Ultimately, my experience in the medical field has only reinforced what was initially just a fleeting interest in medicine. I plan to go into internal medicine, anesthesiology, or emergency medicine, but I'm open-minded. I think I'd be happy in most fields, and I'm happy to wait and see what's in the cards for me. As you pointed out, there are new realities to face in medicine, and it's important to be flexible. Like you, I'll be satisfied doing what I set out to do.

 

[OMSTR]

Thanks, but I'm perfectly happy with my 3.892 overall/3.774 sGPA. It would just be nice to work with people who aren't telling their kids and everyone else interested in medicine that it's not worth it, and they should go into something else, just because they're totally dissatisfied with their chosen profession. If you don't think that more physicians are going to be unhappy, you're oblivious.

dayyumm!! he went to the thousandths place on yo as s!!
booom!

 

[riverjib]

dayyumm!! he went to the thousandths place on yo as s!!
booom!

LOL! In all fairness, the pre-med gunners (including the recent ones) get pretty technical here. And I just submitted my committee application, so I can provide whatever precision Excel offers

I don't really understand why people get so snarky here anyway. If I'm here this time next year, it will be to offer advice for whatever got me in, not to try to knock down pre-med hopefuls posting in a pre-allo forum ;-)

 

[OMSTR]

LOL! In all fairness, the pre-med gunners (including the recent ones) get pretty technical here. And I just submitted my committee application, so I can provide whatever precision Excel offers

I don't really understand why people get so snarky here anyway. If I'm here this time next year, it will be to offer advice for whatever got me in, not to try to knock down pre-med hopefuls posting in a pre-allo forum ;-)

haha, glad to see you weren't offended by my stupid comment/joke. I definitely hear you, man. I take it your applying for the Class of '15? Best of luck, river.
I've been enjoying the dialogue going on in this thread, so sorry for derailing things, lol.

 

[randombetch]

thanks, but i'm perfectly happy with my 3.892 overall/3.774 sgpa. It would just be nice to work with people who aren't telling their kids and everyone else interested in medicine that it's not worth it, and they should go into something else, just because they're totally dissatisfied with their chosen profession. If you don't think that more physicians are going to be unhappy, you're oblivious.

mcat?

 

[cah87]

Can I see it? I think my dick is bigger than yours.

Fixed it for you

 

[circulus vitios]

eh, it would take more than a healthcare bill overhaul to push me away. How about long hours, feeling underpaid and consistently sleep deprived... oh wait...

Where do you get your avatars from? They're so dumb and funny.

 

[Earl Grey]

I did take a second to think about it. But then again... going through medical school hell just to get to another level of hell working as a doctor kind of turned me on.

In all seriousness, I hope more people rethink it to free up those oh-so-desired spots in med school. Money is important of course, but it has always been my DREAM to be a doctor. It'll take a lot more salary cuts and a lot more tiring hours of work before I give up on that.

 

[riverjib]

Fixed it for you

LOL!!! Thanks! People who come on here to pick fights would probably be better off spending their time and energy studying for whatever is next

 

[thamsenman]

I've had many surgeons offer me the same advice, but I ultimately chose internal medicine. The problem with the "smart" career options (and they ARE certainly smart, if you're looking at medicine as just another type of job) is that, for virtually all of them, you're forced to give up what LIKELY drove you to medical school in the first place. Radiology, pathology (it's true), anesthesiology, radiation oncology....these are all clearly the best choices if you're looking to have the most laid-back career possible whilst raking in a ton of money. However, how many of us, upon deciding to pursue medicine, envisioned ourselves sitting at a computer looking at images all day, monitoring vitals behind the blue drapes, etc....?

There are simply new realities to face in medicine. It's possible to go into fields which avoid many of them, but it's up to each to decide for himself whether these fields even remotely resemble what they've decided to pursue in the first place. The surgeons to whom you've spoken are probably somewhat embittered, but at the end of the day they still have the satisfaction of doing what they'd really set out to do.

May this post be tattooed on the forehead of every pre-med from now until our world explodes.

 

[thamsenman]

Fixed it for you

Did randombetch ever talk about the size/width of his member?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i don't think randombetch's e-peenar has been measured yet

 

[randombetch]

Just sayin' 3.8 GPA from some random school isn't that great without an accompanying 38+ on the MCAT.

My e-penis is 3 feet long, you can take my word.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

does it e-chafe?

 

[teenmachinery1]

I've had many surgeons offer me the same advice, but I ultimately chose internal medicine. The problem with the "smart" career options (and they ARE certainly smart, if you're looking at medicine as just another type of job) is that, for virtually all of them, you're forced to give up what LIKELY drove you to medical school in the first place. Radiology, pathology (it's true), anesthesiology, radiation oncology....these are all clearly the best choices if you're looking to have the most laid-back career possible whilst raking in a ton of money. However, how many of us, upon deciding to pursue medicine, envisioned ourselves sitting at a computer looking at images all day, monitoring vitals behind the blue drapes, etc....?

There are simply new realities to face in medicine. It's possible to go into fields which avoid many of them, but it's up to each to decide for himself whether these fields even remotely resemble what they've decided to pursue in the first place. The surgeons to whom you've spoken are probably somewhat embittered, but at the end of the day they still have the satisfaction of doing what they'd really set out to do.

You can make good money in pathology?!? Please... Do go on! I always loved pathology but I thought that the pay was rather static and average (doctor average).



edit: I haven't 'always' loved pathology but for the last couple of years taking pathology, observing autopsies, etc. it certainly became appealing in many ways.

 

[thamsenman]

I remember the Duke Admissions director was telling us they admitted someone with a 23 MCAT last year, and they are now at the top of the class.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

if i were admitted to duke with 23 mcat, i'd probably have a massive inferiority complex/chip on my shoulder to drive me to the top too

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

i would argue even your average premed is very capable of ibank and big law

Agreed. As a whole medical students are FAR more motivated/intelligent than banking/law students. Guaran-****in-teed.

The majority of medical students could breeze through law school or an MBA program and successfully work in either field.

 

[GoLytely]

Agreed. As a whole medical students are FAR more motivated/intelligent than banking/law students. Guaran-****in-teed.

The majority of medical students could breeze through law school or an MBA program and successfully work in either field.

Woah now. I wouldn't go that far. These fields require entirely different skill sets than does medicine. Law and business both offer success in relation to how well you interact with people, effectively convey your point, and act on economic trends. Medicine is about science and a level of interaction with patients the effectiveness of which serves more as icing on the cake than as a sink-or-swim essential skill (as social interaction does in business).

Note that there are quite a few med students bordering on Asperger's syndrome, and then think again about your claim.

 

[4everstudentmd]

A lot of people go into medicine thinking its a field of love and altruism. The reality is that its not, and its a career. People need to realize that medicine is a dream field we're socialized to believe is highly respected and well compensated. Take away the compensation and you lose about 90% of premeds to other fields which pay nicely and require less learning. I get the feeling that if medicine died, premeds would flood into engineering( second best compensated field).

The reality is that medicine WAS about altruism. It is a career now; however, it WAS a vocation. Some would argue semantics, but that is not the case. It is the 90% that would leave if there were less compensation that have changed medicine for the worse over the years.

Ironically it is very similar to politicians whom use to work for free and worked for what was best for the country. Things always become skewed when money gets involved.

 

[GH253]

I'm hoping that the laws of economics will repeal ObamaCare eventually.