1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Hey Texans—join us for a DFW meetup! Click here to learn more.
    Dismiss Notice

retirement calculator

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by epidural man, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. epidural man

    epidural man ASA Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,854
    Likes Received:
    575
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Hey,

    There used to be a website - Stay Navy - I can't find that anymore.

    Does anyone have a good website that will help calculate if it is worth staying in the military or not?

    I type in military retirement calculator and get the DFAS website that tells you HOW to calculate it...I get an Air Force website that has me input a ton of data that I have no idea what they are (dates and such) - but I can't find a useful website.
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Shikima

    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,526
    Likes Received:
    2,633
    Status:
    Attending Physician
  4. epidural man

    epidural man ASA Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,854
    Likes Received:
    575
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    No.

    Stay Navy used to calculate a bunch of stuff - your retirement amount, healthcare costs or savings, how much you can make if you left - then figured if it was better to stay or go. It was pretty cool.

    I can't find it - nor can I find anything like it.
     
  5. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they?
    Moderator Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,525
    Likes Received:
    6,522
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    The Navy calculator was not useful to me. It's aimed at the line, not us.

    Here's my math behind stay or go:

    Decide on a cash value for the retirement you'd get. Lots of ways to calculate this, but you can't make any meaningful comparisons to what you could do with a higher civilian salary if you don't figure out a reasonable cash value for the pension benefit.

    I chose to use the cost of an inflation-indexed, single premium immediate annuity that would pay the same as the Navy retirement. At the time I did the math, I was due a $60,322/year pension. One of quotes I got was a $3676/year benefit per $100,000 premium, which gave me a cash value of $1.64 million for the "value" of the Navy retirement.

    At that point, I needed to stay 8 years past my ADSO to get the retirement. If I left after my ADSO, I'd get $0. If I stayed for 8 more, Id get $1.64M. Therefore, for the extra 8 years, the Navy is effectively putting about $200K/year ($1.64M / 8) into a pre-tax defined benefit plan.

    With a pair of 4-year MSP contracts in anesthesiology, assuming O5 rank for the bulk of those 8 years, my ordinary Navy pay is in the $250-275K/y range. Add the $200K/year pension investment on my behalf, and effectively the Navy is paying $450-475/y during those 8 years.

    To beat that as a civilian, I'd have to earn at least $450-475/year (W-2 not 1099) and save $200K+. The tax differences between the two situations push the needed civilian salary a little higher.

    Ultimately, I decided that the civilian lifestyle and job (in)security that accompanies many of the anesthesia jobs out there that pay $500K+ were not likely to be better than what I've got in the Navy, so I stayed.


    Many caveats in the above
    - it's purely financial math.
    - but it's financial math with gaps - what's the value of earlier partnership in a civilian practice if you leave service X years earlier? not $0.
    - tax differences are not straightforward, and may be large or small, but they do favor staying in the military.
    - it ignores the professional risk/benefit to staying in the milmed system, which varies a lot by specialty, service, location, and other factors.
    - deployments and PCS moves are hard to put a dollar value on.
    - transferring Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits may add to the value of staying in.
     
    Nash and Oo Cipher oO like this.
  6. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they?
    Moderator Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,525
    Likes Received:
    6,522
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    A couple years ago when I did the math above, a whole bunch of people asked me about my methods. We all agreed that the available online calculators sucked.

    So, I toyed around with making my own online milmed retirement calculator. Here it is

    http://pggweb.com/miltarypay.html


    It is not "done" or fully debugged. I spent a couple days playing with it because it was an interesting and relevant problem to me at the time. Some people do crossword puzzles. I have other projects I'm working on these days, and I doubt I'll return to finish this calculator.

    It should go without saying that there's no warranty or guarantee of accuracy. It uses the 2013 pay tables so it's a bit outdated. (It was hardwired to assume it was being run in 2013, but the "now" tag to the left of the 2013-14 line shouldn't make any difference.)
     
  7. j4pac

    j4pac PM&R resident
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    2,298
    You should at least get a NAM for that.
     
    epidural man likes this.
  8. epidural man

    epidural man ASA Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,854
    Likes Received:
    575
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    this is a good start for me.

    however, my retirement pay is reduced by about 40% for ex.
     
  9. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they?
    Moderator Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    11,525
    Likes Received:
    6,522
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Ouch.
     
  10. Gerudo

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    5
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    pgg,

    Thanks for sharing that calculator. It answered a few questions I had about pay.
     
  11. Gastrapathy

    Gastrapathy no longer apathetic
    Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,535
    Likes Received:
    3,365
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I know a guy who split at 18 so his ex wouldn't get half his pension. He said he lost the pension " in the fire"
     

Share This Page