Retook the MCAT and went from 503 to 499....X_X what to do?

Enik

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Hello all,

I took the Mcat in June and July and went from 125/124/127/127 to 126/122/124/126 aka 503 (27 equivalent)to 499 (24 equivalent). I have 3.67 cGPA and tons of research and publications. Pretty solid E.Cs. I am wondering if anyone know what schools would this huge decrease screw me for, as I am pretty bummed out about this? Also, I've finished secondaries to most of the schools prior to the second MCAT.
Lincoln Memorial (LMU-DCOM)
Marian (MU-COM)
NOVA
PCOM (PA)
ROCKY Vista (RVUCOM)
Rowan (Rowan-som)
Touro (CA)
Pikeville Kentucky (UP-KYCOM)
Western Pacific (western U/comp in pamona)
A.T Still Kirksville (ATSU-KCOM)
Midwestern (CCOM)
DES Moines (DMU)
Kansas City (KCU-COM)
Lake Erie
Lake Erie Bradenton
Librety (LUCOM)
Pcom georgia
A.T still Arizona
 

QueenJames

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Arrghhh why did you retake that?! It was a great score especially for your GPAs! it's ok. What's done is done! I do know that some schools take the most recent score... some take the highest.. but i don't know which ones those are! You will be fine.. most likely. Just don't make excuses for it and own up to it and that's it. You should get interviews but I would suggest applying to all of the new schools too if you can swing it!
 
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The_Bird

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Paging Dr. @Goro



I'll go ahead and suggest you stay away from LUCOM. How did you prepare for the MCAT?
 
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Goro

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I can';t sugar coat this, this will hurt.


Best chances will be;

Lincoln Memorial (LMU-DCOM)
Marian (MU-COM)
NOVA
PCOM (PA)
ROCKY Vista (RVUCOM)
Pikeville Kentucky (UP-KYCOM)
A.T Still Kirksville (ATSU-KCOM)
Lake Erie
Lake Erie Bradenton
Pcom georgia
A.T still Arizona
TUNCOM
ACOM
BCOM
WmCarey
PCOM-GA
WVSOM
CUSOM
 

Roxas

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It's a slimmer shot now, but you do have a chance. Cast a very broad net and see what happens. If granted an interview, your score decrease will undoubtedly come up, so be prepared to answer it well
 
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Enik

Enik

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Paging Dr. @Goro



I'll go ahead and suggest you stay away from LUCOM. How did you prepare for the MCAT?
Well to be honest I just used the E.K books and had a mini panic attack thinking holy **** holy **** I'm taking the MCAT during my physican sci section (first MCAT). Second one I took in a room that was 90 some degress (the AC at pro-metric stopped working) and although given the chance to retake I thought what the hell the heat wont kill me....apparently it did.
 

oOKawaiiOo

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Well to be honest I just used the E.K books and had a mini panic attack thinking holy **** holy **** I'm taking the MCAT during my physican sci section (first MCAT). Second one I took in a room that was 90 some degress (the AC at pro-metric stopped working) and although given the chance to retake I thought what the hell the heat wont kill me....apparently it did.
Denatured the proteins in your brain. Start searching school that super-score (takes the highest score of each subsection). Otherwise, you're still a good candidate.
 

GypsyHummus

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Well to be honest I just used the E.K books and had a mini panic attack thinking holy **** holy **** I'm taking the MCAT during my physican sci section (first MCAT). Second one I took in a room that was 90 some degress (the AC at pro-metric stopped working) and although given the chance to retake I thought what the hell the heat wont kill me....apparently it did.
Look into NOVA. They superscore.
 
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Enik

Enik

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Were you gunning for MD?
I was not, I usually did the best on Physical Sciences Section, and ended up with a 125. I was confident I could improve that and NOP. =/
 

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Take it a third time if you think you can destroy it (like 510+) . Otherwise apply as you are OP. There's worse things you can have on your app. **** holes like acom and Bcom have accepted mcats as low as 21.
 
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Enik

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Take it a third time if you think you can destroy it (like 510+) . Otherwise apply as you are OP. There's worse things you can have on your app. **** holes like acom and Bcom have accepted mcats as low as 21.

I would rather than go to PA school if I'd have to attend a **** hole place TBH.... suck man
 

GrapesofRath

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Don't retake unless you don't get in this cycle. Don't make the same mistake twice. Apply broadly to the schools Goro listed I could still see you getting a couple II's out of that list.
 
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Enik

Enik

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Don't retake unless you don't get in this cycle. Don't make the same mistake twice. Apply broadly to the schools Goro listed I could still see you getting a couple II's out of that list.
Do majority of the schools take the most recent score? or do some take the highest. If some take the highest I think I'd be alright.
 

Gandyy

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Take it a third time if you think you can destroy it (like 510+) . Otherwise apply as you are OP. There's worse things you can have on your app. **** holes like acom and Bcom have accepted mcats as low as 21.
I'm not gonna lie, I laughed at how abrasive and sudden this comment was.

I will say BCOM was giving out interviews to people before their official MCAT scores were even posted. I dont know anything about ACOM. Regardless, calling a school a **** hole, is some pretty damn abrasive.
 
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IslandStyle808

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Take it a third time if you think you can destroy it (like 510+) . Otherwise apply as you are OP. There's worse things you can have on your app. **** holes like acom and Bcom have accepted mcats as low as 21.
The funny part was as soon as October came around last cycle. They only interview people with either a 26 MCAT or 3.3 GPA (I missed both cut offs by a hair).
 

GrapesofRath

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Do majority of the schools take the most recent score? or do some take the highest. If some take the highest I think I'd be alright.
Gyngyn talks about this all the time but two key things on a rather tricky question
a) its not as clear cut and cut and dry as we want.
b) schools have every incentive to tell people we'll consider your most recent/highest score with alot more weight.

Schools can say whatever they want about "taking the highest" or "most recent". If the lower score is also there at many of those schools they will consider both no matter what lip service they give on record publicly. How much each is weighed obviously varies by school and there's no good answer to it but the key thing is just don't just take their word for it. It's possible schools would be more willing to put more weight in a 27 than a 24 if the 27 was the re-taken score and not the 24. We just don't know.

A number of schools(the vast majority of which won't openly tell you they do this) average multiple MCAT attempts. That said, even if they officially average they see both MCAT attempts and will note the downward trend which will not be to your favor.

All in all I have a hard time seeing too many schools simply just saying we'll ignore the re-take that was 3 points lower and simply take the higher one and pretend the re-take didn't happen. Like I said though, 3.6/24-25's have gotten into DO's with good broad lists. The downward trend in MCAT attempts is a problem; how much of one it'll be we'll just have to see. Apply thoroughly don't get attached to any one school and you can still be competitive for getting a few II's. The key for you will be to absolutely nail any II's you get.
 

Giovanotto

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If he receives an interview, I can only assume that it may come up as well. Someone like me, who scored 498, seriously can't understand why you would retake, even if you thought you could get a better score unless you were considering MD schools, which you say you don't. There is nothing wrong with that by the way, but again, I would assume that it will come up. Have a good answer.

For example, I've been told by admissions at Western that their new MCAT average for this application cycle is 500, which is WAY lower, percentile wise, than the old MCAT average.
 
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Enik

Enik

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If he receives an interview, I can only assume that it may come up as well. Someone like me, who scored 498, seriously can't understand why you would retake, even if you thought you could get a better score unless you were considering MD schools, which you say you don't. There is nothing wrong with that by the way, but again, I would assume that it will come up. Have a good answer.

For example, I've been told by admissions at Western that their new MCAT average for this application cycle is 500, which is WAY lower, percentile wise, than the old MCAT average.
That is interesting. I always kind of assumed that 508 was the new 30. It does makes sense though considering the increased difficulty and the score of the new MCAT. Where were you accepted if you do not mind me asking?
 

Giovanotto

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That is interesting. I always kind of assumed that 508 was the new 30. It does makes sense though considering the increased difficulty and the score of the new MCAT. Where were you accepted if you do not mind me asking?
I was accepted at one of the two schools that you mentioned you'd rather be a PA instead.
 

Giovanotto

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I'm not gonna lie, I laughed at how abrasive and sudden this comment was.

I will say BCOM was giving out interviews to people before their official MCAT scores were even posted. I dont know anything about ACOM. Regardless, calling a school a **** hole, is some pretty damn abrasive.
Assuming that those rumors are true, I don't understand why they would do that. They obviously have standards since they want competent students. Any insight on the matter?
 

Gandyy

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Assuming that those rumors are true, I don't understand why they would do that. They obviously have standards since they want competent students. Any insight on the matter?
Oh they arent rumors. There are a few people posting in the 2015-2016 BCOM thread saying that they got II's with no official MCAT scores. Check it out yourself.
 

Giovanotto

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Oh they arent rumors. There are a few people posting in the 2015-2016 BCOM thread saying that they got II's with no official MCAT scores. Check it out yourself.
Right, but you're propagating that information. What does it mean to you that the school did that?
 
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If he receives an interview, I can only assume that it may come up as well. Someone like me, who scored 498, seriously can't understand why you would retake, even if you thought you could get a better score unless you were considering MD schools, which you say you don't. There is nothing wrong with that by the way, but again, I would assume that it will come up. Have a good answer.

For example, I've been told by admissions at Western that their new MCAT average for this application cycle is 500, which is WAY lower, percentile wise, than the old MCAT average.
This doesnt make sense. Why would the percentile average go down, if the number of people who took the same test stayed the same or increased?
 

RurouniKarly

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I'm in a similar situation. My original score was a 26, and I retook and got a 24. So far I have gotten interviews at LECOM, LUCOM, and BCOM.
 

Giovanotto

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I just think that its ridiculous, dont you?
I don't mean to derail the thread OP, so I apologize, but:

How exactly is that ridiculous? I'm genuinely curious as to why you see it that way.
 

Gandyy

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I don't mean to derail the thread OP, so I apologize, but:

How exactly is that ridiculous? I'm genuinely curious as to why you see it that way.
The MCAT is a huge part of the application. Giving someone passage to the interview (which is historically supposed to be difficult to obtain) without a MCAT score is ridiculous and says something about the school. Its not a good thing. Generally people with interviews are seriously being considered at whatever school they applied to and have an interview at.

How in the world can you "seriously consider" an applicant without a MCAT score or a GPA?
 

Giovanotto

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The MCAT is a huge part of the application. Giving someone passage to the interview (which is historically supposed to be difficult to obtain) without a MCAT score is ridiculous and says something about the school. Its not a good thing. Generally people with interviews are seriously being considered at whatever school they applied to and have an interview at.

How in the world can you "seriously consider" an applicant without a MCAT score or a GPA?
"Its not a good thing" doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for trying. Also, from my understanding candidates were being asked to interview with unofficial MCAT scores, not WITHOUT them. Huge difference, as lying about your scores is virtually pointless since AACOMAS verifies everything.

Do you want to try again, or am I a total tool for not understanding your logic/argument? Personally, I think if you're going to look down upon a school for something at least have a strong reason on why that something is a negative.

I don't see anything wrong with that, but I am open to other interpretations, hence why I am asking you. So far I haven't been swayed, especially since matriculating competent candidates is in their best financial interest.
 
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Gandyy

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"Its not a good thing" doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for trying. Also, from my understanding candidates were being asked to interview with unofficial MCAT scores, not WITHOUT them. Huge difference, as lying about your scores is virtually pointless since AACOMAS verifies everything.

Do you want to try again, or am I a total tool for not understanding your logic/argument? Personally, I think if you're going to look down upon a school for something at least have a strong reason on why that something is a negative.

I don't see anything wrong with that, but I am open to other interpretations, hence why I am asking you. So far I haven't been swayed.
I mean that is my reason. You can take it for what you want. I'm not saying the whole school is bad because of this practice, just that its an odd practice that is definitely out of normal protocol. No need to get offended about it. I'm not here to "sway" you either.

It says you are a medical student now btw. Grats on that!
 

Giovanotto

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I mean that is my reason. You can take it for what you want. I'm not saying the whole school is bad because of this practice, just that its an odd practice that is definitely out of normal protocol. No need to get offended about it. I'm not here to "sway" you either.

It says you are a medical student now btw. Grats on that!
Of course not, no, it's just that I felt like this was the start to a very nasty rumor. New schools have enough trouble getting started as it is.

Thank you!
 
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mathnerd88

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"Its not a good thing" doesn't really answer my question, but thanks for trying. Also, from my understanding candidates were being asked to interview with unofficial MCAT scores, not WITHOUT them. Huge difference, as lying about your scores is virtually pointless since AACOMAS verifies everything.

Do you want to try again, or am I a total tool for not understanding your logic/argument? Personally, I think if you're going to look down upon a school for something at least have a strong reason on why that something is a negative.

I don't see anything wrong with that, but I am open to other interpretations, hence why I am asking you. So far I haven't been swayed, especially since matriculating competent candidates is in their best financial interest.
I actually agree with you and @Gandy741. However, BCOM didn't have to do this, and could have waited until official scores were posted to the application. It wouldn't hurt their school to wait a little bit. Even currently, some schools haven't even sent out II yet. For example, CUSOM is also provisionally accredited, but they still take their time in giving out II's and screening more rigorously than BCOM.

My guess is they're trying to secure as many applicants as early as possible hoping that they will pay the nonrefundable $3000 fee and then drop out of that school in favor of another so they get to keep that money. Medical schools are a money making business, after all. BCOM is actually making a smart move, financially. They know that if applicants get accepted elsewhere, they're more likely to go to that school since it is more established. If even 50 people change schools, BCOM would have made an extra $150k for doing practically nothing. It just says a lot about what kind of school BCOM is (just a money making business.) They probably have a whole team of financial analysts/consultants who figured out how to maximize cash flow into the school before even the school matriculates its first class.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their intention. I know BCOM has a nonrefundable deposit of $3000 due 30 days after acceptance. Everyone who gets accepted early has to pay that deposit because they won't be hearing from other schools before that deposit is due. Nobody is going to give up an acceptance without knowing they got accepted elsewhere. I know some students who were accepted in late June/July. At least CUSOM makes its deposit due by November 15, which gives you plenty of time to figure out if other schools are interested in you.
 
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I would rather than go to PA school if I'd have to attend a **** hole place TBH.... suck man
At the end of the day, you will be a doctor and no one will care wether you got your degree from BCOM or Nova...
 

RurouniKarly

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I actually agree with you and @Gandy741. However, BCOM didn't have to do this, and could have waited until official scores were posted to the application. It wouldn't hurt their school to wait a little bit. Even currently, some schools haven't even sent out II yet. For example, CUSOM is also provisionally accredited, but they still take their time in giving out II's and screening more rigorously than BCOM.

My guess is they're trying to secure as many applicants as early as possible hoping that they will pay the nonrefundable $3000 fee and then drop out of that school in favor of another so they get to keep that money. Medical schools are a money making business, after all. BCOM is actually making a smart move, financially. They know that if applicants get accepted elsewhere, they're more likely to go to that school since it is more established. If even 50 people change schools, BCOM would have made an extra $150k for doing practically nothing. It just says a lot about what kind of school BCOM is (just a money making business.) They probably have a whole team of financial analysts/consultants who figured out how to maximize cash flow into the school before even the school matriculates its first class.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their intention. I know BCOM has a nonrefundable deposit of $3000 due 30 days after acceptance. Everyone who gets accepted early has to pay that deposit because they won't be hearing from other schools before that deposit is due. Nobody is going to give up an acceptance without knowing they got accepted elsewhere. I know some students who were accepted in late June/July. At least CUSOM makes its deposit due by November 15, which gives you plenty of time to figure out if other schools are interested in you.
I think the more likely reason for the early acceptances and high deposit is to try and secure their student population early on, not to milk people for cash. People are much more cautious about throwing around $3000 as opposed to $500 or $1000. They could make a lot more money overall by charging less for the deposit, because then more students would be willing to pay it and and write it off as a lost expense if they get in somewhere else. But with the price so high, they ensure that students are really thinking hard about accepting their seat and will be less likely to relinquish the seat later on. Obviously they want students who want to be there, not a bunch of people who are going to squat on seats as a back up plan. What they don't want to do is end up in a position where all their students relinquish their seats as the cycle ends and all they are left with is the rejects from all the other schools.
 
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mathnerd88

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I think the more likely reason for the early acceptances and high deposit is to try and secure their student population early on, not to milk people for cash. People are much more cautious about throwing around $3000 as opposed to $500 or $1000. They could make a lot more money overall by charging less for the deposit, because then more students would be willing to pay it and and write it off as a lost expense if they get in somewhere else. But with the price so high, they ensure that students are really thinking hard about accepting their seat and will be less likely to relinquish the seat later on. Obviously they want students who want to be there, not a bunch of people who are going to squat on seats as a back up plan. What they don't want to do is end up in a position where all their students relinquish their seats as the cycle ends and all they are left with is the rejects from all the other schools.
I disagree. If I had no other acceptances yet, I would have put the deposit down. Without acceptances to any other school, I would be forced to put the deposit down, as insurance. An acceptance to a medical school is an acceptance. I won't risk $3000 knowing that I may not have gotten into other schools. Getting into medical school isn't easy. You are one of the 150 students or so that are selected out of at least 5000 applicants.

You underestimate what people will do to gain acceptance to a medical school. $3000 to them is little in the long run.

Would you have declined an acceptance that early and knowing you had to pay the deposit before you heard back from any other school?

Why else would they need to secure their student population early? If they are confident about the school, then no reason to charge so much. Charging less would not have done anything, because then they need to accept more applicants to make the same amount if they charged $3000 instead for the deposit. They don't want to do a lot of interviewing/administrative work to process more acceptances. They know how to game the system. They could have made the deposit due in mid-November like most of the other schools, even the provisionally accredited ones like CUSOM. It would have not made ANY difference to BCOM, if they only really cared about securing candidates who were serious about attending that school. At that point, then they KNOW candidates are serious if they made the deposit due later.

LECOM actually used to do this (gave out acceptances early, deposit due in 30 days) except the deposit was only $1500. They got MANY complaints from students and even AOA and decided to change their policy to notify the students at the end of September/ beginning of October or November 15, at their choosing. LECOM had an advantage; it had extremely cheap tuition compared to other schools, while BCOM does not. BCOM at least is making its financial motives transparent. It is ridiculous. I agree with @Gandy741 something isn't right about that school.
 
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oOKawaiiOo

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I disagree. If I had no other acceptances yet, I would have put the deposit down. Without acceptances to any other school, I would be forced to put the deposit down, as insurance. An acceptance to a medical school is an acceptance. I won't risk $3000 knowing that I may not have gotten into other schools. Getting into medical school isn't easy. You are one of the 150 students or so that are selected out of at least 5000 applicants.

You underestimate what people will do to gain acceptance to a medical school. $3000 to them is little in the long run.

Would you have declined an acceptance that early and knowing you had to pay the deposit before you heard back from any other school?
I would sell my soul for an acceptance.
 

Giovanotto

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I disagree. If I had no other acceptances yet, I would have put the deposit down. Without acceptances to any other school, I would be forced to put the deposit down, as insurance. An acceptance to a medical school is an acceptance. I won't risk $3000 knowing that I may not have gotten into other schools. Getting into medical school isn't easy. You are one of the 150 students or so that are selected out of at least 5000 applicants.

You underestimate what people will do to gain acceptance to a medical school. $3000 to them is little in the long run.

Would you have declined an acceptance that early and knowing you had to pay the deposit before you heard back from any other school?

Why else would they need to secure their student population early? If they are confident about the school, then no reason to charge so much. Charging less would not have done anything, because then they need to accept more applicants to make the same amount if they charged $3000 instead for the deposit. They don't want to do a lot of interviewing/administrative work to process more acceptances. They know how to game the system. They could have made the deposit due in mid-November like most of the other schools, even the provisionally accredited ones like CUSOM. It would have not made ANY difference to BCOM, if they only really cared about securing candidates who were serious about attending that school. At that point, then they KNOW candidates are serious if they made the deposit due later.

LECOM actually used to do this (gave out acceptances early, deposit due in 30 days) except the deposit was only $1500. They got MANY complaints from students and even AOA and decided to change their policy to notify the students at the end of September/ beginning of October or November 15, at their choosing. LECOM had an advantage; it had extremely cheap tuition compared to other schools, while BCOM does not. BCOM at least is making its financial motives transparent. It is ridiculous. I agree with @Gandy741 something isn't right about that school.
I'm confused as to why you felt you needed to explain this with an essay. AFAIK, a large majority of osteopathic medical schools, like most other schools in the country, of any type, are trying to make money since they operate like a business, regardless if the institution is nonprofit or private. Is BCOM a little bit more aggressive in that sense? Sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, I want to be a doctor, and they want to run a successful and profitable medical school.

What really maters, and remains to be seen, is how they will use the acquired wealth to aid their students success and future. And, that is where we run into trouble since there is no current data since its a new school. Time will tell. It's certainly a risk.

And lol at so many of the statements you make in the previous post. I dont have the time or patience to reply to it, but you're literally talking out of your wazoo. Have you ever taken any logic classes? You contradict yourself continuously throughout your paragraphs.
 

mathnerd88

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I'm confused as to why you felt you needed to explain this with an essay. AFAIK, a large majority of osteopathic medical schools, like most other schools in the country, of any type, are trying to make money since they operate like a business, regardless if the institution is nonprofit or private. Is BCOM a little bit more aggressive in that sense? Sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, I want to be a doctor, and they want to run a successful and profitable medical school.

What really maters, and remains to be seen, is how they will use the acquired wealth to aid their students success and future. And, that is where we run into trouble since there is no current data since its a new school. Time will tell. It's certainly a risk.

And lol at so many of the statements you make in the previous post. I dont have the time or patience to reply to it, but you're literally talking out of your wazoo. Have you ever taken any logic classes? You contradict yourself continuously throughout your paragraphs.
Uhh..okay, thanks. I don't see where there is any contradiction, but I still stand by what I said. You just sound defensive because it is probably the only school that accepted you so far. Obviously every medical school wants to make money, but there's a difference when they're charging $3000 for a deposit and making it due within 30 days vs. half that in other schools with much later deposit due dates. It is highway robbery, and they're doing it on purpose. I still say go to this school if it is the only one that accepts you.

If you have many II and more choices, you will understand what I am saying. BCOM would be your last choice school, if you got accepted elsewhere. (And not just because they're new.)

Any reasonable person can see that. BCOM spits on its students financially. They're appealing to your emotional state of mind in trying to become a medical student. They know students are desperate for an acceptance and would pay any amount to grab a seat. ACOM is a new school, but they're adhering to the AOA's rules, in which the deposit isn't due until MUCH later (December 14.) Based on that, I would much rather go to ACOM because I know they aren't nickel and diming students by forcing them to sign a contract early so they become a medical student, and their deposit is only $2000. Already by this, I can tell a difference in character between ACOM and BCOM.

As for your insult, thanks, but I believe my GPA, MCAT, and EC's with couple publications say otherwise. Your defensiveness is definitely showing.
 
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DocWinter

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Jan 2, 2014
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Take it a third time if you think you can destroy it (like 510+) . Otherwise apply as you are OP. There's worse things you can have on your app. **** holes like acom and Bcom have accepted mcats as low as 21.
*ahem*
I can't speak to BCOM, as I have not been there or attend there (which would qualify me to give a worthwhile opinion, not just spew some negative hearsay drivel) but I am an ACOM student. If indeed there is a 21 mcat in my class, I'd be surprised but still believe it. It does stand apart from our collective 27 mcat average and pretty far from the stellar step one scores many ACOM students have garnered, but crazier things have happened, even at MD schools. There were people accepted to MD with mcats I the teens and low 20.
Do us a favor and withhold your opinions until you have some insight to lend with it
 

Giovanotto

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Jul 20, 2014
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Uhh..okay, thanks. I don't see where there is any contradiction, but I still stand by what I said. You just sound defensive because it is probably the only school that accepted you so far. Obviously every medical school wants to make money, but there's a difference when they're charging $3000 for a deposit and making it due within 30 days vs. half that in other schools with much later deposit due dates. It is highway robbery, and they're doing it on purpose. I still say go to this school if it is the only one that accepts you.

If you have many II and more choices, you will understand what I am saying. BCOM would be your last choice school, if you got accepted elsewhere. (And not just because they're new.)

Any reasonable person can see that. BCOM spits on its students financially. They're appealing to your emotional state of mind in trying to become a medical student. They know students are desperate for an acceptance and would pay any amount to grab a seat. ACOM is a new school, but they're adhering to the AOA's rules, in which the deposit isn't due until MUCH later (December 14.) Based on that, I would much rather go to ACOM because I know they aren't nickel and diming students by forcing them to sign a contract early so they become a medical student, and their deposit is only $2000. Already by this, I can tell a difference in character between ACOM and BCOM.

As for your insult, thanks, but I believe my GPA, MCAT, and EC's with couple publications say otherwise. Your defensiveness is definitely showing.
Okay. I agree with some of your comments, but lets agree to disagree.