Retrograde SCS

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paindoc007

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Anyone have any experience with these? Have a patient who legitimately wants a stim, but has had multi-level lower thoracic lami’s..making a traditional approach difficult. Strangely he refuses to go to a surgeon for a paddle as has had bad experience before w surgeons before, the ones who have operated on him numerous times.

I’ve seen retrograde stimulator before when entering at L1-2, for sacral root stim for things such as rectal pain. Would it be at all possible to do a retrograde entering at around T2-3 to get to T8-9 range for back/leg coverage?

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Retrograde would be difficult starting in the thoracic spine due to anatomy. Typically anterograde is possible one level above the fusion level although anchoring would be problematic. Two levels above and you are gold. Also, you can enter at a higher level such as T7 (with difficulty) and place the lead at T4, still getting back and lower extremity coverage. Remember the SCS coverage maps are curves, and you can obtain coverage at higher levels than typically reported. The problem has always been tachyphylaxis at higher levels (T6 and above), but with burst technology, there is a potential to overcome this.
 
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Sounds really "sexy" to attempt a retrograde placement in the upper thoracic spine and "save" this guy a lami lead. Perhaps you can pull it off and look like a hero. However, in the end if you have a complication the fact that he refuses to go the safer conventional route because he doesn't like surgeons will not save your skin. It's the the tail wagging the dog and that is exactly how it would come out in court.
 
I might give it a try depending on the patient and my conversations with them, as well as what levels the previous fusions were. As with anything it's risk benefit. Anatomy wise, I would enter higher up than what you've proposed most likely, depending on where I could get the spaces to open up best. Would also have the patient wide awake and do local only, no sedation to make sure you don't get too aggressive trying to get that lead to take the turn South coming out of the needle tip. I would probably send him for a paddle perm and just do the trial because the trial this way saves him a surgery, the implant is a surgery either way.
 
Wouldn't do it my self. I have to imagine even if you defy the anatomy gods and get in thoracic retrograde, the likelihood of lead fracture seems high to me. The orientation of the lamina, even at T1-2, are such that there would be constant rubbing on the lead with spine motion by the superior lamina. I've seen some fractures from patients with a lead that entered the more superior aspect of the intleraminar space at a lumbar level with a spondylolisthesis that has mobility, due to friction on the lead. I would imagine it would be the same type of phenomenon.

Patient needs a surgical placement. The unwillingness of the patient to do what is medically indicated does not mean we must do something that goes against our medical judgement.
 
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Thanks for the advice. Looks like risks>>benefits.
 
Reviving this thread for question. I have a young patient (43) who had a terrible MVA once upon a time and has had 5 lumbar surgeries (lami x2, fusion/revision x3), currently fused L3-S1. Also had thoracic fusion T10-T12. Guy is in terrible pain, including radicular, and motivated to get better. Injections help but don't last long. Surgeon want to revise the thoracic, but patient is understandably hesitant to have another spine surgery.

I've been contemplating doing a SCS trial, but I would have to go retrograde to cover his lumbar region due to the fusion. My plan currently would be enter somewhere high-thoracic and send one lead retrograde to top of thoracic fusion to try to cover lumbar and send one lead cephalad to cover the thoracic fusion. Likely using Boston because their IPG can handle 2 different stims. If successful, I would send to surgeon for paddle lead placement. Anybody here have any experience with this? Pointers? I haven't done a retrograde SCS before. Obviously I've done a ton of thoracic epidurals in my time, but not retrograde and not at the higher levels.

Thanks in advance.
 
how does T9-10 look on your imaging? could you enter at that level and thread 2 leads upwards?

prospectively, where would you want the surgeon to do the laminectomy for the paddle lead?
 
I would verify the higher level fusions had laminectomies done as you may be able to access at T10-T11 or T11-T12. This is where a straight forward epidurogram helps.

You could also consider staging this with a buried trial for the superior placement. You may find benefit for those levels irrespective of the paresthesia coverage.

What about doing a TF DRG approach for the lower back/radicular components?
 
At the risk of getting roasted here by the community I’m posting pics of a retrograde thoracic trial I did. It seems there are enough people here who might get use out of this that I should share. Without going into the full story of how we ended up resorting to this I’ll give a few details. I used a coude needle and still ended up bending it to the shape of a J. I first entered at C7/T1 with the thought of the patients neck being in a flexed position and smaller laminar of C7 would make things easier. Epidural access was easy enough but threading the lead was difficult and was painful for the patient. I ended up being successful at T3/4 surprisingly and had to come in with a paramedian approach. As you can see in the pick with the needle, the angle was still very problematic. It was impossible to get the needle angle any closer to parallel with the canal than what you see in the pic. As such, when threading the lead you can see it really pushed anterior into the cord and was slightly uncomfortable for the patient. (He was awake and no sedation of any kind.) Once the stylet and needle were removed the lead really relaxed and settled in the posterior epidural space nicely. The did really well with the trial and said it cha ged his life, he was extremely greatful, and one of the ones I’ll remeber the rest of my career. He has not been implanted yet, going for paddle placement with a surgeon who I had discussed the case with ahead of time. Happy to answer any questions, I know I sure would have liked to had someone to bounce things off of ahead of time. Everyone I talked to “knew of a guy” who had done it but I think these stories were all rumors. I still haven’t found anyone who knows first hand of someone else having done this in the cervical/high thoracic region. That being said I want to say I think this case was extremely dangerous and would be hard pressed to do it again.
 

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That looks either anterior or lateral to me.
 
It does look that way but I can assure you, it wasn’t, and this why I say it was dangerous, risky, and I’d be hesitant to ever try it again. It clearly had to be putting a fair amount of pressure on the cord.
 
Difficult case no doubt. I would have been nervous with image 1 but image 2 is perfect. I have sent a few out for paddle trials but let’s call it what it really is, a staged implant.
 
At the risk of getting roasted here by the community I’m posting pics of a retrograde thoracic trial I did. It seems there are enough people here who might get use out of this that I should share. Without going into the full story of how we ended up resorting to this I’ll give a few details. I used a coude needle and still ended up bending it to the shape of a J. I first entered at C7/T1 with the thought of the patients neck being in a flexed position and smaller laminar of C7 would make things easier. Epidural access was easy enough but threading the lead was difficult and was painful for the patient. I ended up being successful at T3/4 surprisingly and had to come in with a paramedian approach. As you can see in the pick with the needle, the angle was still very problematic. It was impossible to get the needle angle any closer to parallel with the canal than what you see in the pic. As such, when threading the lead you can see it really pushed anterior into the cord and was slightly uncomfortable for the patient. (He was awake and no sedation of any kind.) Once the stylet and needle were removed the lead really relaxed and settled in the posterior epidural space nicely. The did really well with the trial and said it cha ged his life, he was extremely greatful, and one of the ones I’ll remeber the rest of my career. He has not been implanted yet, going for paddle placement with a surgeon who I had discussed the case with ahead of time. Happy to answer any questions, I know I sure would have liked to had someone to bounce things off of ahead of time. Everyone I talked to “knew of a guy” who had done it but I think these stories were all rumors. I still haven’t found anyone who knows first hand of someone else having done this in the cervical/high thoracic region. That being said I want to say I think this case was extremely dangerous and would be hard pressed to do it again.
By your own admission...extremely dangerous

If I’m the patient....just give me a paddle trial please
 
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