Returning veteran, low GPA - Second BA or Post Bacc?

[okslatts]

Hey all.
First some background: I 'worked' on my first degree 10+ years ago, starting in 2006. I was not the best student. I averaged a 3.027 at the end of it all. One F and D and several C's bringing it down pretty significantly. I was a film major. I did literally no BCPM courses my first time through. So my science GPA is non-existent as of now.

I joined the Navy, enlisted. Did my five years. Read a news and sports blurb about MSF hospital being bombed and it nudged me to read 'An Imperfect Offering' and the direction I wanted my life to go in became instantly clear.

I've spent the last five months of my Naval career getting everything ready to come back to school, including getting in contact with the admissions department at the college I originally graduated from. I applied was accepted, and am now in classes. I am working toward a degree in Biology, my reasoning being that the major requires ALL of the pre-health courses I need PLUS two semesters of 300 and 400 level bio courses. I figure that the advanced bio courses would be incredibly interesting and that a second degree could only make me a stronger candidate. *Also, I thought that the extra year at the end, during the 300 and 400 level classes, would be a good time to try and get in as a research assistant.

Today I was looking through our online resources and I realized that my current grades are being averaged with my old ones! This might be obvious for many of you, but not for me. I even specifically asked about this when I was talking to admissions -if my old GPA was going to be averaged and also if I was going to need to retake gen-ed classes (I don't.) I am not sure why I was told that my old scores wouldn't be averaged, I am assuming the admissions advisor I was speaking with just didn't know and said whatever made sense to them. Regardless, I didn't know. I was under the impression that I would have a clean slate to work with. Now that I know the truth, I have some questions:

1A) Should I continue down this route of a second degree? I've been messing with GPA calculators and it doesn't look like there are even enough credits available in the BIO degree requirement to bring my cGPA to even a 3.4. Will med school adcom's even put much weight to my 3.0 cGPA from a decade ago if my 2017+ sGPA is super strong? Could the improvement even potentially make me out to be a stronger applicant in the long run?

1B) Would a pre-med postbacc be better at this point instead of the second degree? The same school offers a post bacc program. The PB offers specific advisor support and if I scored over a 3.5 at the end I would get a committee letter as well. But besides that, I don't see what the pros are over working the second degree.

1C) Should I just keep on the track I'm on now, and once I have all my pre-health requirements complete (including MCAT) start applying to schools?


2) Should I retake the two classes I got a D and F in from ten years ago? I was punching them into a GPA calculator, and if I retook the classes that I failed and aced it, both grades would appear on my transcript, but the F would no longer be factored. Replacing the F alone would apparently raise me from a 3.02 to a 3.1. The D is a little trickier. Apparently even if I ace it on a repeat, both the A and the D are factored into my average. (which seems super odd)

3) Right now I volunteer with the Crisis Text Line. I intend to continue to volunteer with them because I love the cause and I like actually helping people who are having a rough time. I was planning on seeing if I could volunteer at the VA Hospital in my city - both to give back to the military community that took care of me for the past five years, and also to get an introduction to the health community. What should I specifically try to get a volunteer position doing? My dream is to go into Emergency Medicine.

I appreciate any answers you can throw my way. The realization that my old cruddy grades are still going to follow me really hit hard today. I just need to know that I can still follow this dream.

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[pauld]

Hey !! We have similar story.(USMC vet here)during my Freshmen year (2012) I had a 2.20 GPA. I worked very hard and it gradually went up. I had a good MCAT (509) and so far have multiple acceptances to highly ranked schools. I think the postbacc is a good plan. What helped me allot was I had recent high scores in my science classes. Because AMCAS will factor in all grades, even if you retake them it's probably not worth it unless they are science classes. I found this website to be extremely negative during my time so I'd recommend taking everything here with a grain of salt. Old Premeds podcast was a much better and positive resource. Also I found that our advisors who were the postbacc advisors at my school were not very helpful in reguards to planning. I would suggest getting the MSAR and using that to plan your classes as some med schools have more or less requirements than the standard postbacc curriculum. Don't worry if your cumulative GPA is not average. Med School Adcoms are actually very nice, and very intelligent people who are able to realize that the type of student you are now is probably different than the one you were a decade ago. Especially considering that a decade ago most of the other applicants you're competing with were still learning how to do simple addition and watching Barney.

 

[okslatts]

Hey !! We have similar story.(USMC vet here)during my Freshmen year (2012) I had a 2.20 GPA. I worked very hard and it gradually went up. I had a good MCAT (509) and so far have multiple acceptances to highly ranked schools. I think the postbacc is a good plan. What helped me allot was I had recent high scores in my science classes. Because AMCAS will factor in all grades, even if you retake them it's probably not worth it unless they are science classes. I found this website to be extremely negative during my time so I'd recommend taking everything here with a grain of salt. Old Premeds podcast was a much better and positive resource. Also I found that our advisors who were the postbacc advisors at my school were not very helpful in reguards to planning. I would suggest getting the MSAR and using that to plan your classes as some med schools have more or less requirements than the standard postbacc curriculum. Don't worry if your cumulative GPA is not average. Med School Adcoms are actually very nice, and very intelligent people who are able to realize that the type of student you are now is probably different than the one you were a decade ago. Especially considering that a decade ago most of the other applicants you're competing with were still learning how to do simple addition and watching Barney.

Hey thanks for the reaching out! And great work getting accepted. I agree, I have seen some salty posts here. But I'm keeping my head up regardless of what I read. I will check out the podcast you mentioned.

So good news: I just met with advisors, they told me that my GPA from my first BA is not counted. I am in fact starting this second degree with a clean slate. Which is awesome. But, like you, the internet, and my advisors have all said, AMCAS will factor ALL grades from my college history.

Does it make a difference in the end? I think so. I think it will a big difference when taking a first glance at me as an applicant. I also think that it will show very clearly how much more serious I am 2017+ academically than I was 2006-2010.
And besides that, this opens me up to more opportunities around campus. A lot of resources are locked unless you are 3.3 or over. Like a committee letter from the pre-med department at my school. Clean slate means that when the time comes, I might qualify for a committee letter. If I wasn't starting clean slate, then no matter how many 4.0s I pulled off, I wouldn't be have been able to get to 3.3.

 

[BombsAway]

You may be getting a "clean slate" from your school, but you aren't getting one from AMCAS, which is all you should care about. Do a postbacc in 1.5 years + 6 months off and destroy the mcat=2 years total. A second degree will be 3-4 years, right? So you're looking at at least 1 year of lost physician income by choosing a second degree over a post-bacc. If you choose the right PB, some are "linked" to medical schools. Look into that.

 

[Gulliver Dark]

I have a somewhat similar story to you except Army - and I'm sitting on multiple acceptances with probably at least one more to come. I can talk about how I fixed my GPA and succeeded on the MCAT if you want, the struggles I had, etc. Send me a PM or ask any specific questions here that might help others who could search this.

I definitely made lots of mistakes, too, so I can discuss those and how I overcame them.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks to you for your service to our country.

I joined the Navy, enlisted. Did my five years. Read a news and sports blurb about MSF hospital being bombed and it nudged me to read 'An Imperfect Offering' and the direction I wanted my life to go in became instantly clear.

All MD schools average grades. DO schools sued to replace the newer, better grades for the old ones, but that process is going away. Thus you're in the same boat for both. However, not all is lost. BTW, most pre-med advisors are *****s.

Today I was looking through our online resources and I realized that my current grades are being averaged with my old ones! This might be obvious for many of you, but not for me. I even specifically asked about this when I was talking to admissions -if my old GPA was going to be averaged and also if I was going to need to retake gen-ed classes (I don't.) I am not sure why I was told that my old scores wouldn't be averaged, I am assuming the admissions advisor I was speaking with just didn't know and said whatever made sense to them. Regardless, I didn't know. I was under the impression that I would have a clean slate to work with. Now that I know the truth, I have some questions:

I don't recommend a second degree.
1A) Should I continue down this route of a second degree? I've been messing with GPA calculators and it doesn't look like there are even enough credits available in the BIO degree requirement to bring my cGPA to even a 3.4. Will med school adcom's even put much weight to my 3.0 cGPA from a decade ago if my 2017+ sGPA is super strong? Could the improvement even potentially make me out to be a stronger applicant in the long run?

I recommend this. The idea is not to get your cGPA up...that will take too long. Rather, the goal is to show med schools that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle med school.

Thus, do a either a DIY post-bac or SMP, and ace them.

IF you're boning for the MD degree, there are some MD schools (and ALL DO) that reward reinvention. You'll need to ace all the classic pre-reqs, and ace either a post-bac (which can be DIY) or a SMP, ideally one given at a med school. Then also ace MCAT (513 or better, 33+ on the old scale). DO schools will be more forgiving with a lower MCAT (like 505+).

Do not apply until you have the best possible app. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere, and, in fact, by the time you apply, several more schools will have opened their doors.

Some schools require a B or better in pre-reqs, maybe even a C+, so retaking an F/D might be still advised.
1B) Would a pre-med postbacc be better at this point instead of the second degree? The same school offers a post bacc program. The PB offers specific advisor support and if I scored over a 3.5 at the end I would get a committee letter as well. But besides that, I don't see what the pros are over working the second degree.




2) Should I retake the two classes I got a D and F in from ten years ago? I was punching them into a GPA calculator, and if I retook the classes that I failed and aced it, both grades would appear on my transcript, but the F would no longer be factored. Replacing the F alone would apparently raise me from a 3.02 to a 3.1. The D is a little trickier. Apparently even if I ace it on a repeat, both the A and the D are factored into my average. (which seems super odd)

3) Right now I volunteer with the Crisis Text Line. I intend to continue to volunteer with them because I love the cause and I like actually helping people who are having a rough time. I was planning on seeing if I could volunteer at the VA Hospital in my city - both to give back to the military community that took care of me for the past five years, and also to get an introduction to the health community. What should I specifically try to get a volunteer position doing? My dream is to go into Emergency Medicine.

I appreciate any answers you can throw my way. The realization that my old cruddy grades are still going to follow me really hit hard today. I just need to know that I can still follow this dream.[/QUOTE]

 

[shouldigomd]

So I had a long road of trying to "fix" my past. What I learned is not to look at things as trying to "fix" your GPA because it can be disheartening as you describe and also not the main thing you want to show. Like a ball and chain that never leaves you. I wish I would have had that realization sooner. Treat today as a new day and a new you.

Med schools want applicants who will succeed... simple as that. GPA illustrates consistent hard work while MCAT illustrates reasoning / critical thinking under pressure in a standardized environment. You show them that by stringing together 3+ semesters of solid science / math course work. Especially in those core sciences necessary for med school (biology, gen chem, physics, org chem, math, etc). That is better than taking obscure sciences. Doesn't matter if you do that as a post bac, masters degree, etc. Ultimately succeeding there is more important than taking 1 biochem class and 4 easy classes and ending up with a higher GPA. You aren't fooling anyone that way. They look at trends and if you show them a new you ... you will get in.

I failed out of college and now I am making my match list with a 90th percentile step 1 and 2 score. You can do it!

 

[Happily_Disgruntled_HM]

Post Navy Doc here following a similar route. Currently struggling to decide what to complete my Ugrad in. Got accepted to a few schools as a Psych Major but Psych has too many requirements and won't give me flexibility to finish the pre reqs for med school I still need. I wanted to ask you OP how your experience is with the Crisis Text Line. I just signed up for them and am currently waiting for training. Good luck on your journey. We might be in the same app cycle judging by your timeline.