RIP PCSOM...Long Live PCSoM

[mittens]

Nothing will ever be done about the mess pertaining to OPP b/c no one cares to do anything about it. What is it, high school and you are all afraid of getting in trouble? I guess you don't seem to mind forking out the big bucks to lousy administration who could careless about the education you receive. I would say, can the administration and get some people in there who care about the education you are receiving instead of living the good life while medical education suffers. Everyone has a VOICE, so USE IT if you don't like how you're being treated and or stop complaining about it.

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[jawicobike]

Nothing will ever be done about the mess pertaining to OPP b/c no one cares to do anything about it. What is it, high school and you are all afraid of getting in trouble? I guess you don't seem to mind forking out the big bucks to lousy administration who could careless about the education you receive. I would say, can the administration and get some people in there who care about the education you are receiving instead of living the good life while medical education suffers. Everyone has a VOICE, so USE IT if you don't like how you're being treated and or stop complaining about it.

Lets face facts here. Much of my education will come during my clinical years at the hands of MD's and a few DO's who are not being paid by the school. The amount I learn during my first two years is merely a product of my own study with a little direction from some of the better professors so ironically I'm not really paying big bucks for an education rather I am paying big bucks for an opportunity to take the COMLEX and receive a DO degree...and of course the ever important malpractice coverage.

 

[jawicobike]

I agree with your post, but the issue now is what can be done and as I see it nothing will happen. You and I may care a little about how well we can learn and practice OPP but certain people here care much more about how well students do on the COMLEX because it reflects positively on them. Last years class did better than any other class on the OPP section and rather than call a spade a spade (the 2007 class did better as a whole on the COMLEX) it has been circulated that this improvement was a result of the new addition to the OPP program last year.

In a way I guess I'm arguing Stiles' point that the COMLEX does a very poor job of testing the proficiency of a student in OMM. So maybe this PCSOM issue is a problem that should concern more than just PCSOM students.

 

[Yohimbine]

Great post !!!

 

[cutes]

I get the feeling that several of the people posting do not know what has actually transpired so I will clear it up for you. Betz and Stro wanted to meet with Litman and Stiles to discuss board scores as the OPP was the highest it has ever been at PCSOM. Betz and Stro merely eluded to the fact that it could be because Litman had joined PCSOM last fall and Stiles, being a pretty proud man, became angry and had his feelings hurt and slung a previously prepared resignation letter at Stro. Of course, Stro told him to put it away and that was that until....Stro went to Chicago to be sworn in as AOA Pres. Elect and Stiles decided to take his resignation to the PC President, Hal Smith who, much to Stiles' dismay and surprise, accepted it. I find it unreasonable to blame Dr. Litman for a resignation that was already prepared and in Stiles' briefcase. I have read emails that have been sent from Litman to Stiles asking him to participate in the first and second year curriculum, but as I have seen, Stiles has not done so. I am currently doing the OPP fellowship and can also report that Stiles made no attempt to do ANYTHING with us last month while Litman has been more than happy to volunteer help to us. Also, can we please stop being so closed-minded to think that Stiles knows the ONLY osteopathy in the world. Do you think that it may be possible that Litman also has some valuable skills and wisdom to pass down?
As for the second year students, I know that OPP is not what you thought it was going to be and that the test was not what you expected, but if you think that it was unreasonable, you are in for a rude awakening when you take COMLEX because Litman's style of question and language is what is on there too. Wouldn't you rather get your butt burned on ONE OPP test than on your national boards? As fellows, we tried to prepare you for the exam, perhaps we failed. We will try harder next time.
Regarding DOSouthpaw, I feel like you are really taking some cheap shots on here and are not on campus any longer and therefore are unable to see the whole story. What relevance is there to the future fellows' attending convocation in this post anyway? Maybe you should concern yourself more with appropriate etiquette on where it is acceptable to wear your white coat (FYI-the courthouse should NOT be on that list).

 

[mittens]

May as well turn Pikeville into an MD school now.. this OPP is going nowhere. Sounds like the fellows themselves are disappointed not to be working under Stiles, which is why they are so into defending Litman. More than likely Stiles just stepped down b/c the adminstration would of fired him if he didn't. CAN THE ADMINISTRATION.................................

 

[eadysx]

Regarding DOSouthpaw, I feel like you are really taking some cheap shots on here......Maybe you should concern yourself more with appropriate etiquette on where it is acceptable to wear your white coat (FYI-the courthouse should NOT be on that list).

Not that this concerns me at all, but who is taking cheap shots now?

Back to the topic at hand. Seems to me we are really putting a lot of dirty laundry on display here. I realize that getting information out in the open is without question a good thing, but it also seems to me this situation if far from resolved. The OPP department seems to have plenty to work out, and it looks like we could see a change in the involvement of the faculty at any time. At this point, I must say that I fail to see the wisdom in continuing to complain about things in an open forum without a sense of the long term structure of the new OPP curriculum.

E-

 

[cutes]

I admit that my last statement was a bit irrelevant, but was still pretty funny and was the result of a month of dealing with this issue. I think that the intent of this thread was to seed and propagate malicious thoughts regarding Dr. Litman and the entire situation at PCSOM. I also think that it is unbecoming of medical students to discourage people from applying to their school in an open forum due to such a controversial and poorly understood situation.
It enrages me that Dr. Litman is being blamed for something that he really had no control over. He has received so much flack from the second year class that I can't imagine he feels welcome at PCSOM and that makes me ashamed as a student here. It seems that everyone disagrees with him simply because he has different view points and different instructional modalities. Dr. Litman is an excellent physician and is willing to teach anyone who shows interest...to me these are more important attributes in a faculty member than being nationally recognized.
I agree that Dr. Stiles has a lot to contribute as well, but until he decides to do so I find it futile to complain about Dr. Litman and would suggest that others follow my lead.

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

I can certainly understand the frustration of many of the students. When you pay an increase in tutition, you expect at least an equal product that was offered last year. Obviously they aren't getting that. Dr. Stiles is the GOLD standard of OMT education. I was never into OMT but he at least showed me the treatment value it can provide. Due to his instruction, I will recommend OMT to my patients.

With that said, a negative attitude toward Dr. Litman is just misdirected frustration. Without him, you got nothing. If he is being treated in the way described above, the entire class should apologize.

Now, I never had Dr. Litman in class, but have only heard great things about him. PCSOM is lucky to have him. The previous OMT instructor was just plain incompetent. Trust me.

Dirty laundry on SDN! That's what keeps me coming back!!

 

[jawicobike]

a negative attitude toward Dr. Litman is just frustration.

As with every som-related thread on this forum things got really nasty following a test.

 

[tom26]

As a physical therapist interested in osteopathic manual therapy, I have had the privilege of training with Dr. Stiles in the past. I have used his techniques and philosophy to get immediate results with my patients. As a PT, I am able to use my study with him as one of the requirements to become a fellow of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Manual Physical Therapists. There are multiple systems of manual therapy one can study and become proficient in to apply for fellowship. However, those of us interested in osteopathic-based manual therapy must have trained at the MSUCOM program or with Dr. Stiles. Thus, while what I read says Dr. Litman is a nice guy, I've never heard of him or his work within osteopathy. The fact that he just rec'd his board fellowship would make me highly suspect that he is not of the same caliber as Dr. Stiles. He is likely the right guy for the job when Dr. Stiles retires but until then a few more years under Dr. Stiles could only benefit him and the program. I will tell you that many of us in the PT "world" were quite shocked and saddened by Ed's being relegated to 2nd man on the totom pole. I cannot blame him for hanging out in his office listening to jazz. From what I've heard, if I were treated similarly after having single handedly established the top OPP training program in the country, I'd have to step back, hide out, and listen to jazz to try to calm myself from such treatment. As for what the fellows at PCSoM have posted, it's all about principles and tying all the treatment modalities together. This is what Ed teaches. If you were really interested in being great OMM docs, you'd hang on every word that passed Dr. Stiles lips. He's trained with the greats in your profession over the last half-century and has a gift for transmitting that information to students. Finally, some of you will be tempted to say, "What do you know! You're just a PT." That's true but when a patient limps into my office and skips out with words of praise, I realize that I damn good one! And, why am I damn good? Because I've had the opportunity to train with Dr. Stiles and follow his principles of treatment.

 

[mittens]

Let's face it, if someone wants to learn the essentials of OMT, then Pikeville is not a choice since no one is learning anything essential in the classroom. When 80% of the class fails a test and there are three curves, well does that not suggest a problem people?? People are just way too scared to speak up around here and that is obvious, just look at how many b.s. courses this school has compared to other schools. I don't think making up crossword puzzles for CBM lab justifies an education, do you? People can make better use of their time instead of doing elementary work. If the adminstration cared at this school then maybe they would care about the education and not about politics.
Discussing this matter on here is quite alright, afterall, students who are in the process of applying to schools should be well aware of the problems going on within Pikeville right now. Who is to say it won't get worse? As usual it will all be covered up and the students will be the ones suffering.
Stiles set up such a great program within the school, it's a shame he was booted out of his program b/c the new guy came in. Litman may be a nice guy, but he is not Stiles.

 

[eadysx]

Let's face it, if someone wants to learn the essentials of OMT, then Pikeville is not a choice since no one is learning anything essential in the classroom. When 80% of the class fails a test and there are three curves, well does that not suggest a problem people?? People are just way too scared to speak up around here and that is obvious, just look at how many b.s. courses this school has compared to other schools. I don't think making up crossword puzzles for CBM lab justifies an education, do you? People can make better use of their time instead of doing elementary work. If the adminstration cared at this school then maybe they would care about the education and not about politics.
Discussing this matter on here is quite alright, afterall, students who are in the process of applying to schools should be well aware of the problems going on within Pikeville right now. Who is to say it won't get worse? As usual it will all be covered up and the students will be the ones suffering.
Stiles set up such a great program within the school, it's a shame he was booted out of his program b/c the new guy came in. Litman may be a nice guy, but he is not Stiles.

Lame. Don’t be such a troll. All this has been said before, and to what end? Do you think crying on SDN will make it all better? How about this, if you hate the school this much, leave.

E-

 

[mittens]

Just for the record, I am not a student but I am someone who knows quite a bit about this school and what goes on at other osteopathic schools. I have friends in other DO schools across this country and let me tell you this, Pikeville is not a good education. My friends are receiving a lot better educations than students at Pikeville are. I think those who are in the process of applying to schools should be well aware of what goes on b/c I wouldn't want them making a mistake applying to a school who doesn't seem to care at all about its students of their education.

 

[phd2b]

Just for the record, I am not a student but I am someone who knows quite a bit about this school and what goes on at other osteopathic schools. I have friends in other DO schools across this country and let me tell you this, Pikeville is not a good education. My friends are receiving a lot better educations than students at Pikeville are. I think those who are in the process of applying to schools should be well aware of what goes on b/c I wouldn't want them making a mistake applying to a school who doesn't seem to care at all about its students of their education.

I'd probably point out that since you are not a student and are operating, in fact, based on hearsay, that your opinions' value might be limited in some circles.

The Class of 2007 had the highest board pass rate in school history (>94% vs. the national avg of ~91%), *despite having one of the lowest entering MCAT averages*. If all but 3-4 passed the COMLEX-I on the first attempt, an ostensibly 'objective' national exam, I'd wonder how Pikeville is such a 'bad education'. Further, I believe that the best gauge for the quality of education would lie in:
1) the program directors that accept our students (allopathic and osteopathic);
2) the alumni of the school who have had time to reflect and compare their experiences with those of other com graduates; and
3) most importantly, the patients and the outcomes that they represent.

Finally, I've read all of the SDN complaints of Stiles vs. Litman with some humor. The bottom line: we are dealing with adults here, in all cases. Nobody is in Pikeville, KY who does not want to be. If either Dr. Litman or Dr. Stiles were truly miserable, they would simply leave and pursue other professional diversions (their 'contracts' are almost meaningless, at the end of the day). The same goes for the students. Vote with your wallets, if you are not pleased with your educations; transfer to one of these ellusive better educational environments. Get alumni to vote with their wallets (perhaps even more effective?).

Otherwise, keep your heads down and study; your complaints are rarely heard by the administration, and your time in Pikeville is limited.

Cheers. Enjoy your fall. Work hard and do the best that you can.

 

[cptcaver]

I'm glad someone else realizes that it makes no difference whether you are an OMS or an MS. Why do so many people care about this??? At the end of the day we are all doing the same thing.

Also, in regards to "cutes" and the explanation given to the OMT questions on boards - the OMT on boards is terrible. Nothing could prepare you for those kinds of questions. Many of them you can get right with common sense. Others you would never get right if you studied for years. Furthermore, if you get your butt burned on the COMLEX due to the OMT portion of the test, you shouldn't be taking the test anyway. OMT is a very small portion of the boards and much of it is encompassed in anatomy and other subject areas. For the most part, the OMT just wastes valuable time because it is mentioned in a long drawn out case study but then never asked about. I recommend studying the innervation chart in Savarese and that's it for OMT. I wouldn't waste my time with it - it's just not worth it. Spend your time learning what is really going to matter in residency and that's learning medicine.

At my osteopathic school, I am referred to as a MS-1 (this is the schools practice, not the students). My white coat says "Student Physician," not "Osteopathic Student Physician." We are ALL medical students, we are all going to be doctors, I just don't get the big deal with the letters behind your name (wether as a medical student or a physician).

Then again, my initials are and will be my rank--so maybe my persepctive is a bit different.